The value of the Common old tractor.

Seeing Old's post about the salvage yard auction made me think about how the values of the old tractors is changing. These type of things cycle over time.

I can remember buying a JD "G" in 1978 for $250. Ten years later I had a hard time getting $500 out of it in good running condition. It was not painted up fancy but it ran well. I had used it for several years as a regular working tractor when I got out of the service. Then in the 1990s the value took off sky high. I saw JD "G"s in just about any shape start to bring $2500-3500.

This was true for the IH "M" and "H" too. You could buy a good running one for $350-500 for a lot of years. Then their value took off in the late 1980s and early 1990s. Regular old farm ready tractors would bring $1500-2500. Restored ones would bring $2500-4500.

Now we are starting to see the values slide the last 4-5 years. Good common tractors that where restored 20-15 years ago are selling now with good tries and paint and may not break the $1000-1500. This would be the IH "M" and "H". The JD "B" or "A" in in that price range too.

The Ford 8N has dropped in price too. I can remember just 10-15 years ago that they would bring $2500-3000 to the acreage guys. Now they will usually not bring that $1200-1500.

The tractors that have three point hitches and live/Independent PTO still are selling for a fair price but even they are not as hot as they where 10-15 years ago.

I think the cheaper imported compact tractors have taken many of the acreage guys out of the old tractor market. Those guys wanted a tractor to use not work on. So the newer diesel compact tractors fit their wants/needs better than an older worn farm tractor.

So what is my point??? I think we will continue to see the values of the common tractors fall. I am not sure where the bottom will be but it very well could be scrap iron value. The issues with the newer gas in the tractors is also making guys switch to diesels. So some models of even "newer" gas tractors are taking a hit in value.

A mid production JD 3010/20 or 4010/20 GAS is not bring much now either. The very early none and the very late ones are still selling well but the middle one are not very valuable right now. They still have a good salvage yard value just because many of the parts will fit the diesels.

I think there are several things driving this trend:

1) The average "Joe" just does not have the free income to buy what he did in years past. The income "gap" is showing up at the blue collar level.

2) The collector class is getting younger and they want the tractors they drove/coveted when they where kids.

3) This is making the tractors that are common, not rare, not have much of a market. (I will put my sons in this market. They do not want anything to do with an old JD 2 cylinder. They are wanting the newer 10-20 series tractors or real old like a waterloo boy or Rumley Oil pull)

4) More guys are not wanting tractors that do not have some usable features. Like: a three point hitch, Live/Ind. PTO, Power steering, etc.

5) I think that the "fad" of collecting/running old tractors has moved on to something else. This happened to the antique cars 20 year ago. This means the "HIT" markets of 10-15 years ago may not be back for many years if ever.

These are just my thoughts/opinions on this subject. So it is worth what you "paid" for it. LMAO

JD, I would totally agree with you, and would expect that private collection will drop off dramatically in the next 20 years.

My kids show no interest in my equipment, so I am adjusting my will to have everything sold. I was hoping they would want third generation equipment, but it is not happening.

I can see both sides. I think the average Joe has plenty of money. I mean, just sit at a restaurant and watch the vehicles go by on the street. Around here at least, you can watch for quite a while to see something twenty years or older drive by, that tells me people have enough to overpay for their status symbol cars or pickups. As for collecting, I personally hope values do drop, that means I can still buy the tractors that I want to have because I want to have and enjoy them, not because I want to get rich selling them. I have noticed at the shows lately that it seems more people are getting too lazy to bring older, rarer tractors with a hand crank when they can just bring something common with a starter. I guess its the times changing. BT

Much of what you say is true. But I think there"s another factor at work here too. Incomes are getting more stratified. If you have a good paying job you have plenty of discretionary spending power; if not, you pay the bills and try to get by with what you have. The old days of graduating from high school and stepping into a good paying job at the local mill or manufacturing plant are gone.

I see it when I go to the lake. It used to be that a 16 foot "ski" boat with a 50hp outboard was quite the outfit. Today if you don"t have at least a 21 footer with a 200 hp inboard/outdrive you"re slumming.

I would have to disagree a little JD.Yes things have leveled off some,but Gs are still 3-5000,620s &720s 4-8000,3010s-4010 gassers 8000 to 12000.Hs &Ms still 900 to 2500(Plain Janes).Oliver 1600-1650 Gas 6000-8000.Small older Fords & MFs have taken the biggest hits I think.

If you can get those prices I will let you sell my whole fleet and I can upgrade. I"ve bought some of the tractors you listed from dealers in the past few years and paid half what you say they still bring. That being said, good used late model equipment prices have skyrocketed the last few years.

Hit all to close to the bullseye at the FENA meet. A Running rolling work ready TO30, that would have brought 2 grand to rake hay or haul firewood and wagons just a few years ago, brought 500 bucks... at the convention's auction!
I take this with a grain of salt, my ...'antique collection' is still at work, earning its keep, while trying to clean up well afterwards... I get a lot of satisfaction working on and with these fergies, and enjoy counting the money they 'didn't cost me' either coming home, or coming back from a job..... but good thing I don't think of it as a 'retirement investment'...cause that don't seem likely...

I think due to the percentage of Farmers in the US population has been steadily going down since World War II and these days there are not many young people who grew up on farms so the interest in equipment and machinery is just not there like it used to be. I have bought several older tractors in the last few years at what I thought were good prices, everything I have is for using so if an extra old tractor saves me time and or trips back and forth from my home place to the other two places then it is making money, not costing.

I recently bought a Case 1170 and found it to be a bit over priced IMO for the year add list of issues. However, I still believe that older GOOD iron trumps newer junk. This thing is a 20k lb tank!

In my search, I certainly did not find too many under priced machines. Quite the opposite. I am in KS. May differ elsewhere.

I agree with JD Seller's comments.

BT, I've learned not to rely on the vehicle someone drives as a indicator of any wealth. Cars are very easy to finance, too easy in my opinion. An expensive car does not mean it's paid for yet, a bank may be the real owner. Dealers will sell young kids with only entry level jobs expensive cars that have to be financed for seven years to keep the monthly payments within their means. Some dealers make more on their finance programs than on the cars they sell. If a kid is out of work for more than a couple months, the car is soon reposessed. A friend used to counsel (spelling?) military people with financial problems. He would see buck privates that owned new BMW's but couldn't make the monthly car payments even with a full time military jobs.

I suspect most old tractor sales are cash only rather than financed. I could be wrong though...

I totally agree, seems that way around here too. I have noticed more guys at auctions that don't care what make or model it is, but if it has good rubber they will try to get it. Then swap the tires onto one they already have and resell the tractor at the next auction, hopefully getting the tires they want for next to nothing.

I think you are so right. Really hard as a dealer to tell the guy his nice Massey Fergerson 135 will not sell for $ 4,500.00 like he thinks it will. IH h & M s I actually just can not get an offer running or not most go to the iron grave yard. Just more plain jane old tractors out there than folks wanting to buy one.

Kids born after 1980 have a different set of values when it comes to possessions and antiquity. As they are now 30 something's this is affecting the entire economy values of homes, cars, jewelry, antiques, etc will continue to fall. This generation values technology, health, travel (fun) not necessarily bad but indeed different

Being 31, I got into the hobby when I was 14 or so. At one time I had over 30 tractors. Then, I started needing money for the price of things went up. I didn't have the time to enjoy them so one by one they left. Then I went and got married and she needed a new car...

Sitting here today trying to figure out what to sell next. Cost of living seems high and the paycheck seems low.

I know many around my age and younger into tractors. Maybe not enough to keep up with the demand of the thousands that are needing new homes though. But like what has been said. They either want a turbo charged diesel of the 60s and 70s or a steam engine. Matter what there has to be a cloud of black smoke I guess. I will keep my Cockshutt 40s.

I'm 63 years old an can afford to buy a new diesel 4x4 pickup,but I refuse to pay 50 grand or more for a pickup.On the other hand they pass me everyday being driven by 20 year old hot rodders
blowing black smoke.

I think with fewer farmers and a greater detatchment to agriculture the value will still fall a bit, I dont think they will ever be scrap price for the ones in good running condition but it will definetly weed out the marginal tractors.

Apparently you missed the results from the Aumann Auction in OH. No shortage of money or interest at that one. Or how about the Ted Klee auction that Polk's had recently. Here's the link to his results.

http://polk.nextlot.com/public/sale/60424?lots_per_page=25&page=1&section=lots
Aumann Auctions

Another comment. The cost of owning an old tractor is not just the cost of the tractor itself. A tractor requires a place to store it, enough room to run it or a means to haul it it somewhere you can use/show it, and also the tools, skill or money to maintain it. Similar to owning a boat, a show car or a horse. Fewer young people have the combined interest, space, and extra money to investment in a tractor or other big hobbies.

Ive said before, its an aging dying hobby. If its the tractor dad or grandpa had or you drove as a kid its has a certain sentimental value, but the next generation of kids out there just arent in that situation and I forecast, other then the few extreme rare models, prices will drop. Fortunately, like most of you I"m sure, ours are long ago paid for and dont owe us anything and while I may sell mine (1938 Long Frame B, only made one year) next spring IM NOT GOING TO GIVE IT AWAY, it can set in the barn and rot until I die and the kids can sell it for scrap iron as far as Im concerned lol

John T Gettin to be an old grouchy fuddy duddy and happy and proud of it too

Not all of us. I am almost 35 and have a strong drive in manufacturing, agriculture, and most importantly, helping people. I have already made my deal with "the man" that if I finally get my payoff either through hard work or the lottery, I plan to create a new charity organization unlike any other. One that pools the local businesses to get involved.

One thing that makes me want to puke is how all these movie stars get like 50M for a movie, 250K per showing, or people that win 100M in the lottery. Then they turn around and "dazzle" the ignorant public with their excessive spending. Some people's lives would change just getting a dependable car to get to work.

I am also constantly irritated with how famed people no longer care about the people that put them there. Some do though. Please take a CLOSE look at Warren Buffet. There is a guy that is proclaiming to pay it forward. It is SO important to do that.

Here is another example of ignorance of people. Movie star requests people to donate to their charity. Their charity pays them 2M just to endorse. They receive 500K in donations from people that make 50k/yr and barely making it. How about all these dam movie stars put their money (that we gave them) where their mouth is???? Nope, they need another mansion in the keys.... People are so stupid.

Lot 56 ,pedal tractor for $70,000.????

Those are just auction prices from lately.Yes there have been some cheapies,but I gave a close average number.Deere diesel prices about double these.
Look at Machine Petes latest numbers.

You must have good demand because here 3010 and 4010 gas tractors are sitting without buyers. Talk about suck alot of fuel. Sure not bringing 8-10 grand, thats starting low end of desiel prices. 1600 and 1650 Olivers are 4000 dollars all day long for a decent one off the farm. Some people might start asking around 6k for them but that's just so they have room to come down.

How many acres you farmin now?????

Around here the family farm is dead. Yes dad may still work on a farm but it would be like working a regular job because he would work for someone that owns thousands of acres.
The people that do need a tractor just get by with the imports. When a import is XX dollars and a 40 yr old tractor is 2/3 of that why buy old. The guy selling the import also finances the price making that much more attractive since no one has cash on hand anymore.

On the other hand I think people have lots of discretionary funds today. They just choose to spend it on thinks we call "got to have necessities" when they are really not necessities.
Most are 2 weeks away from bankruptcy and if they do get ahead a little they go out and finance something else. All the while having more junk then they can store at their own house so they now have to rent a mini storage.

All you have to do is look at this sign and you can reason what I am talking about.

my personel feeling is that you do not develop an interest in History or older things like collecting tractors until you have seen some history pass you by, That's when you start to get an appreciation for it.

Whats a shame is that exactly, so many tractors are going to scrap. At least if its sitting in a fencerow its not coming back as who knows what to harm us. I was at a sale last fall with about 30 tractors and some of them were not bringing what the tires are worth. I just do not have the money or space for them or I'd probably have 8 or 10.

I was shocked today with farm sale in town. There was a rough stage 1 super H Farmall that went for $2500.

went to the polk three day labor day weekend auction this year. all three days and I can tell you all there was not a shortage of money there. even the common tractors were bring good money

I agree with you and would also say that collectors have ruined the hobby as well. They ran the prices up to the point many people said forget it. I used to love the sound of a JD cylinder but anytime I tried to buy one I never had enough money and now money is still tight but I wouldn't even care to own one.

I go to quite a few sales and the prices vary greatly from one area to another..Just when you think the value of common older tractors has fallen way off you will go to a sale where they sell over market value...

Must have been a family thing. It would not bring that without some help.

I get the actual "Iron Guide" that dealers use for floor plans and such. They have the actual auction numbers and averages in the monthly up dates.

The numbers you see on Machinery Pete's web site are the high ones, cherry picked out of hundreds of lower tractors. Pete is paid by advertising. The auctioneers are his bread and butter. He does not make headlines showing the cheap selling stuff.


I have several of the models you are saying are selling so high. I will make you a deal. You can come and buy them for my price an go sell them for YOUR price.

An example of this is an Oliver 1650 GAS. Good tires and good paint. Late one with the three speed hydraul. Wide front end. Ran nice. Took it to three different sales. Never got a live bid over $3500 for it. Finally got it sold privately for $3700. This was just last month.

Just bought two JD 3020 gas narrow front tractors. They both came from one dealer. He has had them for almost two years. Not even an offer. I paid half of what you said they are bringing. They have fair tires and run. They both will be parts tractors. The hitch, remote valves, and transmission parts will bring more than they will running.

So either the location is making a difference or your values are off. I go to 4-5 auctions each month, year round. I see what equipment is selling for.

I am lucky enough to have two family tractors, an
Allis B and Farmall H. Both are common as dirt models and not very valuable(only to me). And I know that even though I did all the restoring myself, I couldn't get out of them what I have invested. But no one in my family is interested in them when I'm gone, so there'll be an auction! Just a sign of the times.

You make some good points. I have noticed prices have softened up alot on antique tractors in this part of the country too. Along with the reasons you stated , here are 2 more 1) the cost of restoring/repairing a tractor has jumped alot- look at cost of batteries, tires and just about all parts compared to 5-10 years ago. 2) 20-30 years ago people around here would buy a Farmall M or H or Oliver 88 to use for farm work - now many of those smaller farms have gone out of business and others have gotten much bigger and have little use for these tracors, which are now that much older and obsolete in a large scale operation. Even smaller operators like myself who still use some old iron also often upgrade to newer equipment, and use the older tractors for light work.

I agree, I think our generation is slowly dying off and the younger ones have no interest in old tractors. The kids now days didn't grow up working on cars and engines like we did. Also the modern cars are much harder to work on and don't need as much maintenance as a 66 mustang!

Well, I guess My family is in the minority. I'm the third generation to farm our land with equipment that Grandpa bought. I value my equipment as priceless. My son and daughter in law have a great interest in the land. They have no desire to get "new" equipment. The financing and all would not be in their best interest.

Me I would rather use older tractors and equipment than be saddled with the debt that comes along with new stuff. Besides, the new stuff just is not built anywhere as bullet proof as equipment from the 50's and 60's.

All my tractors were built in the 50's and run better than and work when my neighbors newer are broke down. I do admit that I take the time to maintain and repair them when they show signs of needing it.

Also I own a 1968 Chevelle SS396 that my son and I are going to finish restoring when he gets off active duty with the Army. (He wants the car, but it's mine until I'm pushing up daisy's).

In conclusion I think a lot of what the newer generation thinks about old iron may be because of the influence of the parents.

Just a thought.

Leonard

I didn't read through all the posts so if I'm repeating someone elses point, my apologies.

I think #5 on your list is the big reason JD. Those $2500-3k 8N's were completely over priced. At best they are a $1500-2k tractor and that whole range if similar tractors are the same thing- the old Case/Deere/IHC/AC letter series, the early 60's rigs, in fact most of the 60's tractors up into the late 60's get the same thing. I mean, come on! A 4020 is a great tractor, so are a whole lot of other rigs. But they aren't worth $12-15-20K. I don't care what you've done to it, there isn't a Ford 5000 worth $10K. Some of the pricing on the late 60's stuff is dealer pricing stuff up to cover their costs, I get that. But I'm seeing people trying to get $2k for JUNK! And they get insulted when you offer them actual value. Guy near me is determined to get $1200.00 for a VAC Case with no sheet metal, a cobbled up carb, bad tires and a bunch of other issues. It's a $3-500.00 rig at best. Another guy is int he practice of restoring the 6 and 800 series Fords. He does a nice job and basically renews them thoughout. They are not worth $5k though and they sit and sit.

As far as people having money, cars get bought through dealers at very low interest rates. Vintage tractors get bought for cash or with loans at much higher interest rates through banks. That's why Joe Sixpack has his 1 ton diesel dually that's never had anything heavier than a bag of dog food in the back or the new Camero.

I shouldn't have used machinery Petes name into it,just his last article on 4960s.What I said were sale results I have seen(farm & consignments).I'am not a Jockey and have only sold 1 tractor privately in my life and don't care what they bring unless I'am buying and I'am able walk away with no hard feelings if I don't get it.Three 1600-1650s, last yr.all $6000.+