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Gov't wants to give me $10,500 for CREP

rockyridgefarm

rockyridgefarm

Well-known Member
I have 34 acres of pasture coming out of CREP. I had no intention of re-upping, but then they told me what they'd give me to DO NOTHING - equivalent of about $305 an acre for ground that is only good as pasture. There's a creek running through the bottom ground that would make it about 4 fields and the hillsides are heavily treed and very sandy ground to boot. There's also two restricted use wetlands in there.

It just irks me. Any BTO wouldn't blink to get another government handout and it's real hard to not take it my self. Why must they tempt me like this ?!? $10,500 per year for 10 years is hard to walk away from...
 
It sure is messed up that the gubbermint has money to burn. $10,500 per year to do NOTHING with your land? What? I would like to go to the gubbermint and say, I plan to do nothing with my land.......Just give me money so I can pay the local taxes.
 
My take on it has been that every dollar they hand out gives them just a bit more control over what we do. If it is only good for pasture, put some beef on it. Might not make $10,500 per year, but it will be farmed and you can say you earned what you do get. I`m in the position of being 28 and trying to farm full time, and some of the mediocre ground that is tied up in conservation programs because folks think it is not worth farming, I would love to have, but Uncle Sam has deeper pockets than I do.
 
sixtyninegmc,

That's 'cuz dear ol' Uncle... is taking the money from your pocket to put into his (for redistribution as he sees fit). Sad, but true.

I hope you achieve your dream - it's a lot harder these days.
 
BTO- Big Time Operator
Crep- probably means CRP- Conservation Reserve Program. a term used for land that is rough or subject to erosion. Farmers were paid to take it out of production if they signed up for the program.
 
I think I'd have to ask myself what they expected done with that land for that contribution? What is not allowed? The other side of the coin is... how many of these things are you going to be expected to do in favor of conservation even if you DON'T take the money?
The way I look at it... if I can basically do what I want with it and they give me money, I'll take the money. If they meddle in my business too much... the money isn't worth anything... If they meddle in my business regardless if I take the money or not... I'll take them money and look for ways that I can screw more out of them, right down to the last cent.
I'm afraid that the world we live in today doesn't much allow for anyone doing their 'own thing' anymore tho. You're going to play their game and if you buck them... then you're going to pay, then play their game. That's just how it works.

Rod
 
BTO is Big Time Operator (big farmers that will rent any ground that's not moving). CREP is a guvment program- I think its a conservation easement (Conservation Reserve Easement Program, maybe?)- where you still own the land, but they pay you not to use it so all the little endangered species can frolic amongst themselves.

Just found out that the farm next to where I grew up, and where I made hay and changed irrigation all through my feckless youth, about 200 acres, has been purchased by the state, and they're going to use it as an oak tree and Mazama Pocket Gopher preserve. Paid a million plus. They keep putting the make on us for ever more revenue, then (literally) throw it down a gopher hole.
 
You're just looking at it from the wrong direction.

Guvment just wants to rent your land- for $305/acre/year. As far as what you can do on it, probably more than if a BTO rented it- you can hunt, fish, walk around, take the grandkids to look for crawdads in the creek.

It ain't welfare- guvment is getting something of value (more natural habitat), at least in their minds. They're willing to pay you for it- take the money and run like a thief.
 
I agree. Its rent. The fact that the government is going to use it to feed Bambi is just another waste of our tax dollars.


Would you consider it "welfare" if you cash rented to your neighbor?
 
Seems like a few responders want to sell out their soul and help push our country deeper in debt.
 
CREP is Conservation Reserve Enhancement Program

Normal CRP pays the going rate for cropland in your county. CREP pays a bonus to take wetlands and buffers along waterways out of production.

The goal is to let it go to trees so it"s permanently out of production, even after the CREP contract is up. By then you can"t farm it or rent it because it"s so grown over.
 
Guess it all depends on what part of the country you are in or what state. About the best you can get under that program here in Tennessee is little over $185.00 or so. Not a bad program in my mind, but with farm land rent prices getting up there around that and grain prices where they are lots of acres coming out of the program.
 
305 dollars an acre?!! Are you kidding me?! Seriously?! If they offered me that kind of money for the next ten years,they could put the whole dammed place in and take my house for a field office! There's no way on Gods green earth I'd be farming a square inch for an offer like that.

Are you positive that wasn't $30.50 an acre for ten years for a total of $305 over the length of the contract? I've NEVER heard of an offer like that.
 
The money from you and I is gone. Assigned to this program. Doled out . ------ away already. Doesn't matter if this guy gets any or not. It will not affect your or my taxes if he gets his or not. Hell of a way to run a gubbermint but it is as it is...
 
If it really bothers you, I understand the moral dilemma, take it &
spend it on some one in your community that needs it and would
appreciate it. I'm talking about some hardworking family that needs
it. A Veteran, a sick kid, the church etc.

I'd rather see it go to you than the illegals, dead beats, and in general
the folks that won't work.

You can darn sure spend it more wisely that our politicians.
 
See, all you need is your external_linkPhone,,,,,,,Free food stamps,,,,,,,housing assistance,,,,,,,free health care,,,,,,,,,2 or more years of unemployment benefits,,,,,and the money you mentioned and you will likely be (or in the future) in the majority in this country. Socialism is fine until the government runs out of other peoples money. As long as they can bleed and punish the workers and achievers and give their money to the non producers (redistribution of wealth) it will allllll be fine, Dont worry be happy lol

John T
 
I hate to say this but if it were mine I would likely do it. Think of it as getting some of all your hard earned taxes you pay back.

Last I checked in my area of Michigan the max you could get was $47/acre (2003), and you could only have foot traffic. At the time I was already leasing out two pieces for $60 and $70/acre. The office couldnt figure out why I wouldnt enroll. Told them sorry its about the money. $13-23 more per acre adds up.

Rick
 
Here's the way I see it. You pay dearly when you pay income taxes. Some of it ends up in the government program. The government program, through welfare assistance has given out millions, maybe billions to [u:d67e354f56]NON-TAXPAYERS [/u:d67e354f56]who sit on their lazy butts and milk the system. So why shouldn't a working taxpayer like you get a little of it back? Jim
 
Its really simple, you can be a taker or a maker, not both. I personally hate and distrust any and all government and would never consider any program, bar none. This position does not exactly put me in the status quo so my opinion is probably mute.
 
You have zero shame, you are proud of what you have wrought and the payoff is what you may personally gain, PITIFUL.
 
Take it. As has been said, that money is already pigeon holed for that program, it's you or your BTO neighbor that's gonna get it.

Dad finally wised up to some of the other NRCS programs and the money is already alotted for the program, and it's basically first come, first served as far as who gets it. If it's us or a BTO, they don't care but they're gonna spend it.

We got a really nice farm lane at home and 2 creek crossings (no culverts, just dug down 2' below grade and packed with rock and gravel so you can ford it when there is water)

We get money that's already spent. Those on your high horse can keep getting took. Or you can actually look into how they work, the rules, laws, breakdowns, etc... and then make up your mind.

Donovan from Wisconsin
 
I had a neighbor in Wyoming that I used to stack hay for. He had been a school teacher and retired. Met a rich woman who bought him a big ranch just down the road from me. I was talking to him one day about some land he had. He says, "Oh, that is in CRP, they give me seventy thousand a year for it."
 
I should have mentioned that I did not get into the program. I bought this place from my F-I-L 2 1/2 years ago. He put it in in 1998 or so. He never met a gov't program he didn't like. This place was getting something like $26,000 between CRP, CREP, and MFL. He was getting $3166 per year on these acres when he put it in. It'll never be croppable ground, but it would be bang-up pasture ground.

I'm really torn up about this. I had it my head that I was gonna farm this place any way I could to keep it and minimize my gov't handouts. BUT $10,500 would buy 2 1/2 months worth of corn for my 8300 laying hens. If I get it out and rent it to a friend to put cattle in it (he rents my other pastures already for $15 per head per month), It's only $2500 a year or so, depending on number of head and number of months it's viable.

I hate these programs. They're made for BTOs and wealthy landowners that would take the handout on hard-to-farm ground and pillage the rest of the place. But, like others said - It's going to someone, might as well be me.

There was one program I would have jumped at, but it ran out of money last year - I don't know what it was called, but they were allowing CRP ground to come out 2 years early if rented to a young farmer. The owner would get his CRP payment and the young farmer would get the ground to rent. Sure wish it were still here... i gotta wait until fall 2015 for the "real" crop ground to come out. Wonder what they'll offer me to keep THAT in!
 
I might be wrong, but I got some money a few years back, and I think it was CREP money. It was pretty good bucks, and for thiongs I was already doing, like keeping grass pasture, cross fencing, no-tilling, manure management, etc. Everything we did already was added up, and it was multiplied out over 7 years. Mind you, these were practices already prescribed by NRCS, and just continued. One thing I had to laugh at, was $105 per year for 3 wood duck nests. I think the duck boxes cost me about $40 to bigin with. I've never seen a duck in them- nor have I seen a wood duck in this area....
 
(quoted from post at 19:46:35 07/16/13) 305 dollars an acre?!! Are you kidding me?! Seriously?! If they offered me that kind of money for the next ten years,they could put the whole dammed place in and take my house for a field office! There's no way on Gods green earth I'd be farming a square inch for an offer like that.

Are you positive that wasn't $30.50 an acre for ten years for a total of $305 over the length of the contract? I've NEVER heard of an offer like that.
Click to expand...

That's the reaction of a lot of people... and it's a shame.

The shame of it is that the land has to be kept out for 10 years. 10 years is a very long time. In black land Ohio, just southwest of Columbus, it is up to $360 per acre. Here, it is $140 per acre.





To the original poster-

Consider the rules of the program, and breaching them could result in removal from the program and all paid money for the entire term of the contract would have to be refunded back to your Uncle Sam. So, if you breach contract on the 9th year of the program, you would get a bill from them for $94,500.

The other thing to consider is that 10 years is a very long time. Let's say you get a windfall at some point in the next ten years, and you want to do something with that land. Your hands would be tied. It sounds to me like you are farming a bit now. I am no chicken farmer, so I don't know if 8300 is a large number, but if you don't absolutely need the money, you shouldn't renew. It could tie you up down the road and you might regret it.

That is just my opinion. I guess technically I am BTO. I mean, if you are paying $50,000 a year for chicken feed, then your total expenses are probably more than mine, but, I rent farms all over my area. Is that what makes a BTO? I don't have a choice. I don't have water for livestock, nor a desire to own livestock, so I cash crop. My biggest problem is that in order to make a livable income, I need to have many many acres for crops. Many of the farms in my area are signed into CRP that I have a lot of trouble expanding. The other problem is that the CRP program is paying $140 per acre, and the going rent price is no where near that. I am competing with someone who doesn't have to justify the extra rent costs, since they aren't trying to profit from the 10 year contract. I have to profit, or I have to get a job at McDonalds.

I don't want to work at McDonalds.
 
Check out all of the rules and requirements BEFORE You even have them do a plan for your ground. That ground being in the CREP program will effect the entire farm as far as programs are concerned.

Neighbor just had a water way done two years ago. FSA office paid %75 of the bill. The bill was double what you could have had it done for without the GOVERNMENT plan. That 750 foot water way caused his entire 360 ace farm now to be in a nutrient management plan. He has to have soils tests done every two years and show all of his fertilizer receipts. He went over on his K this last year. It cost him $3500 in a penalty for not counting his manure high enough to make sure he was not over the GOVERNMENT guidelines. He is hopping mad but is locked in forever now that he took the money.
 
Farmland prices are at an all-time high, so a lot of land coming out of CRP/CREP is being sold and the CREP lease rates are going up to reflect that market.

You need to view this as a business decision. Do you think the CEO of any major corporation finds himself in a moral quandary whether or not to accept corporate welfare? Of course not! After all, the corporation probably lobbied to get the bill in the first place.
 
Interesting that a lot of the same people who are against unemployment compensation for men and women who aren't working, would gladly take a payment for land that's not working.

I think I sniff a double standard here...
 
Not at all. If rent in the local area is 60 bucks an acre that's all CRP should pay. If they want a multi year contract with the owner it should have a clause that CRP goes up when rent goes up. Anything over normal rent value is farmer welfare. I myself hate government welfare but I know that some people refuse to call some handouts welfare, as long as the check is made out to them.

Rick
 
I'm pretty sure I'm not gonna take it. It's a big shiny carrot, but I'm afraid it's gonna have a bitter taste once I bite it. I'm also looking into buying the woods back out of the MFL. It's gonna cost me 10,000 to get it out, but it's in for another 16 years if I dont...
 
Folks that complain about the existence of CRP and NRCS programs should brush up on their history of the 1930's, and look at what can happen when every inch of available land goes under the plow. I'm for limited federal govt., but I also don't have a problem with programs that provide incentive to maintain a cover crop or pasture on some of the land, so we don't have another dust bowl. Especially now when a lot of farmers are digging up their backyards to get as much tillable as possible, while at the same time areas of the country are in extended heat and drought. I'd rather have my tax dollar go to stewardship of our land, preserving the topsoil from being blown across the country, than spend another dime in Afghanistan.

In this specific case, I guess if it were me I wouldn't jump on their deal without looking at all the options. 10 years is a long time, if you plan on needing the land eventually. Why don't you look at maybe just doing a 1/3 or some smaller amount as CRP?

I had 4 acres in CRP that I pulled out last year that I'm going to fence off for pasture, but I'm looking at putting another 4 acres in next year. Small amount I know, but I hate watching that topsoil wash down the hill year after year.

I have 6 acres of tillable in an NRCS rotational grazing program. They paid for the seed, high tensile fence, and waterline to convert part of the corn base ground to pasture. Yeah, I have to play by their rules by keeping records of herd movement and forage height for 3 years, and they pay something around $40/acre. But in the process I'm learning a different way to farm.
 
For one thing, the govt DOESN'T have any money. Its all money taken away from you and me.

I used to think I wouldn't touch govt money, but paying taxes, taxes, taxes for 50 yrs and watching the govt waste it, waste it, waste it, has changed my point of view.

Now I see it as getting some of my money back. The govt is going to spend (waste) it regardless, so it might as well find its way back to my pocket.

Frankly, I would be pleased to know some of my hard earned dollars that the govt took out of my pocket, landed in the pocket of someone who is actually doing something useful and productive.



I would definitely find out if there were any "strings" attached.
 
(quoted from post at 07:33:31 07/17/13) Folks that complain about the existence of CRP and NRCS programs should brush up on their history of the 1930's, and look at what can happen when every inch of available land goes under the plow. I'm for limited federal govt., but I also don't have a problem with programs that provide incentive to maintain a cover crop or pasture on some of the land, so we don't have another dust bowl. Especially now when a lot of farmers are digging up their backyards to get as much tillable as possible, while at the same time areas of the country are in extended heat and drought. I'd rather have my tax dollar go to stewardship of our land, preserving the topsoil from being blown across the country, than spend another dime in Afghanistan.

In this specific case, I guess if it were me I wouldn't jump on their deal without looking at all the options. 10 years is a long time, if you plan on needing the land eventually. Why don't you look at maybe just doing a 1/3 or some smaller amount as CRP?

I had 4 acres in CRP that I pulled out last year that I'm going to fence off for pasture, but I'm looking at putting another 4 acres in next year. Small amount I know, but I hate watching that topsoil wash down the hill year after year.

I have 6 acres of tillable in an NRCS rotational grazing program. They paid for the seed, high tensile fence, and waterline to convert part of the corn base ground to pasture. Yeah, I have to play by their rules by keeping records of herd movement and forage height for 3 years, and they pay something around $40/acre. But in the process I'm learning a different way to farm.
Click to expand...

I remember a guy who said [b:16146ef34c]"ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country"[/b:16146ef34c]. With that in mind I have to ask why do you have to be paid to be a good steward of the land?

Rick
 
I have had some land in and out of crp over the years. The last of it came out 4 years ago and I was getting $60/acre. In our town coservation,FSA, etc are in one building and I am going down to see what is available. If it is as much as the poster says, I am in with rrlund and they can have my house for a second field office.
As far as criticism for taking part in government programs,that's a loaded question. Over 500 of the largest corporations in America take an aggregate of several billion dollars in corporate welfare. I do not hear any talk telling employees too quit their jobs. But, if a farmer takes a government payment he's compared to a welfare recipient.
As far as adding to the national debt, it is too late to do any thing. There is at leat $41 trillion of debt not the $17 trillion figure the government uses.
There has never been a nation that has printed currency without any backing that has existed for any period of time.
To end with, The $85 billion dollar deficit printed every month is more than the value of the national corn crop.
 
(quoted from post at 09:08:00 07/17/13) I have had some land in and out of crp over the years. The last of it came out 4 years ago and I was getting $60/acre. In our town coservation,FSA, etc are in one building and I am going down to see what is available. If it is as much as the poster says, I am in with rrlund and they can have my house for a second field office.
As far as criticism for taking part in government programs,that's a loaded question. Over 500 of the largest corporations in America take an aggregate of several billion dollars in corporate welfare. I do not hear any talk telling employees too quit their jobs. But, if a farmer takes a government payment he's compared to a welfare recipient.
As far as adding to the national debt, it is too late to do any thing. There is at leat $41 trillion of debt not the $17 trillion figure the government uses.
There has never been a nation that has printed currency without any backing that has existed for any period of time.
To end with, The $85 billion dollar deficit printed every month is more than the value of the national corn crop.
Click to expand...


I had a person on welfare, EBT (food stamps), medicade, rent and fuel assistance say basically the same thing you are saying aaabout welfare. So I guess that's OK too?

Rick
 
No, I am not saying welfare is OK. But, if could be cut. Do the cutting to corporations, individuals, and welfare.
I think the problem is going to be very hard to straighten. Since the 1960s we as country that has moved so far to Socialization that we are reaping the results. One of the biggest result is
an ungodly number of government handouts for individuals and corporations.
 


Good point.


Socialism... Too many hippies from way back when, thinking that we can all make soup if we all bring something small. San Francisco, 1969.

I'm mad that thins are going like they are, and when the new immigrants get their vote it will get worse. Next thin you know we are Russia in 1993. Let's go down that path!

I really don't care, personally. Let it be, let everyone realize what is going on. But, the minute that someone says, "we are taking your farm to better the country." I am going to start shooting. I will make sure that I die for the cause of keeping this a free country. Unhappy tha millions are made by few? Quit buying their products! Quit shopping at Walmart! seriously... just let it go to shambles.


When that day comes, I am ready. I will defend my land. I can get chickens and beef. I have land for crops to support them. I will be ok.
 
(quoted from post at 00:24:37 07/18/13)

Good point.


Socialism... Too many hippies from way back when, thinking that we can all make soup if we all bring something small. San Francisco, 1969.

I'm mad that thins are going like they are, and when the new immigrants get their vote it will get worse. Next thin you know we are Russia in 1993. Let's go down that path!

I really don't care, personally. Let it be, let everyone realize what is going on. But, the minute that someone says, "we are taking your farm to better the country." I am going to start shooting. I will make sure that I die for the cause of keeping this a free country. Unhappy tha millions are made by few? Quit buying their products! Quit shopping at Walmart! seriously... just let it go to shambles.


When that day comes, I am ready. I will defend my land. I can get chickens and beef. I have land for crops to support them. I will be ok.
Click to expand...

Hey John,

I gotta say you're going absolutely the wrong way. You will never when going against the Gov't. You'll just find your way into a body bag and into the papers as a crackpot.

The only way to make the gov't better is to change it from within. Find good people to vote for. When they become dirty, vote them out and find other good people to vote for. If this takes voting them out EVERY election cycle, do so. Forget about parties. There's just as many slimy nnalert as there are nnalert. Vote for the people. Then engage those people. Call them up when you don't like what they've done. Call them up when you LIKE what they've done. Tell them what you expect out of them. You can bet that I called up Ron Kind, Travis Tranel, etc. with my frustration with the way they're spending my money on the CREP program. When enough of the rest of us give a schiesse to do the same, things will change for the better.

Oh yeah, and turn off Rush et al. All those talking heads are paid millions and hundreds of millions to tell thier ditto-head listeners how to think. They have only thier own self interests in mind.
 
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