Riding the clutch in a clutched tractor. What is too much?

Using my Case 1170 for haying and finding it REAL hard not to have to ride the clutch a lot. Everything from turning, to feathering in a windrow with baler, to loading bales on truck. Lots of clutch slipping.

Being from the motorcycle world, I actually teach people to USE the pizz out of the clutch. However, that is a wet multi plate and cheap and easy to fix.

I have heard the Case clutch is next to impossible to destroy and I hope that is the case. I try to reduce RPM when possible when engaging and such. However, I need to start slower and go faster like when baling. Powershift would just make ALL the difference right now.

So...Please tell me the tractor OEMs of the day realized clutches will get abused trying to get work done and built them to handle all this?

Ridding and slipping a clutch is never good on it, a button clutch will last longer, but is harder on the flywheel.

Just my opinion but the 1170 /75,s were designed from the ground up being a non-power shift tractor and with a 15" clutch and outboard planetaries which reduce the load / impact on all the drive train in front of them , I believe they knew it would be clutched a lot. That being said, they are 40 yrs old now and one would assume they are not still on the original clutch. If it is then you may end up using up what little is left. The 1170/75 by design was probably the most bullet proof of all the 70 series Cases because of the gear trans and outer planetaries. Not many farm tractors built like that and came from their experience with heavy construction equipment.

Use a lower gear, and use the throttle. Slipping/riding the clutch is a big no-no.

Not advisable.

It"s not just the clutch. It"s also the throw-out bearing and pilot bearing/bushing.

Dean

It's scared the heck out of me thinking I would take the clutch out of my 2-135 White slipping it on the round baler all the time too,and I did. The flywheel had to be resurfaced too. Now the big Oliver that I use on the haybine and planter is going. That one gets slipped a lot turning around on the headlands with the planter. So yea,it's just a matter of time til the one in your Case is toast.

I,ll just say this EVER time you slip the clutch you are REDUCING the life of it now that said it is just a matter of how much you want to spend when..

Up until I got married and left the home farm, Dad liked to ride on the fender for a coupla rounds with both of us boys starting out plowing or fitting ground or what ever we were doing. If we slipped the clutch more than was necessary for a smooth start he would kick our foot off the clutch. Kinda taught us to use the throttle and change gears up and down to meet the speed needs. He would say clutches cost time and money and time is money. Normally a clutch will go out when you are in the greatest need for the tractor. Hardly ever go out setting in the barn in the winter.

Use a lower gear. A tractor clutch is a far cry
from a motorcycle clutch. Let it out and leave
your foot off it. If you can't slow the throttle
enough to turn without also needing the clutch,
you're going way too fast. A lot people wear
clutches out on loader tractors for the same
reason. Trying to go too fast.

MX is the only time a motorcycle clutch gets
abused but it's not cheap if you have replace it
every 3 or 4 races. Some expert riders can go the
whole season on a clutch while others wear them
out in 2 moto's. If you're on a budget, learn a
better riding technique so you don't have to abuse
the clutch. The same rule would apply to a
tractor.

Slipping the clutch obviously causes wear but you aren't pulling a hard load with the baler in tow. I'll bet if you add up the total minutes that clutch is slipping while baling it won't be much. I wouldn't worry too much about it. Jim

So how do you start in a tall gear? I can't farm at 2mph just because of the clutch and due to a crap shifter (no sychros), I can't shift on the fly.

IMO, my options are limited. Run at snail speed, or slip the clutch a bit. Tractor won't run every day.

That is correct. Slipping in all conditions is very low load. Inching a hay bale to trailer, pulling baler, or slowing at headlands with rake. Need to rake in 3rd/hi so I reduce rpm, then slip it a bit through the corner, then fully engage clutch, then add throttle. I can see where doing this with a plow could be a big heat issue though.

Use a lower gear where you can adjust your speed using the throttle. I saw a clutch fail on a 15-30 McCormick Deering tractor that was used on a threshing machine. So none of them are indestructible. The owner's brother worked all night to replace the clutch. I use to follow that threshing machine as he did custom threshing for farmers in the area. I was a teenager and they paid pretty good and fed you like a king. Hal

Pick a gear that you can do your field work in. Start out even if you slip the clutch. THEN leave your foot off the peddle!!! You will just have to live with a set speed or get a different tractor. You are finding out why more modern tractors have a power shift of some sort.

That Case 1175 DOES not have a bullet proof clutch. It has a HEAVY rear end with outboard planetaries that are tough but the main clutch is actually not much different than tractors from years ago.

This is one advantage that the thirty series JD row crop tractors had, that was the oil cooled or wet clutch. They will stand a lot more slipping.

Also on the other models of Case,1070,1370,1570, they actually where using a clutch pack in the transmission when you hit the foot clutch. This pack was an oil cooled/ or wet clutch.

So actually your Case 1175 is not the best for baling and that type of work. They where great for jobs that required just one speed.

(quoted from post at 10:56:10 06/30/13) Pick a gear that you can do your field work in. Start out even if you slip the clutch. THEN leave your foot off the peddle!!! You will just have to live with a set speed or get a different tractor. You are finding out why more modern tractors have a power shift of some sort.

That Case 1175 DOES not have a bullet proof clutch. It has a HEAVY rear end with outboard planetaries that are tough but the main clutch is actually not much different than tractors from years ago.

This is one advantage that the thirty series JD row crop tractors had, that was the oil cooled or wet clutch. They will stand a lot more slipping.

Also on the other models of Case,1070,1370,1570, they actually where using a clutch pack in the transmission when you hit the foot clutch. This pack was an oil cooled/ or wet clutch.

So actually your Case 1175 is not the best for baling and that type of work. They where great for jobs that required just one speed.

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I am confused, the 1070 and 1370 had a wet cluch, the 1170 does not? Mechanically there is no difference. Or are we talking the difference in the powershift models? I have an 1170, not 1175.

Was my understanding though, that this is just a plain old dry clutch. I will have to check the manual.

+1 what the other posters have written. Pick a gear that you can simply throttle down and make your turn without having to slip the clutch on the turns every round . Hit the straitaway then throttle up. While you might ideally prefer to go faster on the strait aways you just have to live with it (that is the nature of any fixed gear tranny that is not synchronized). Cases are known for their down low engine RPM torque so this should be easier to throttle down on the turns than some tractors that have to scream to make any power.

Fixed gears tranny's are cheap and nearly indestructible but are sometimes less than ideal. Sure Powershifts are nice but pricey to buy and even more pricey to rebuild when they need it and they all do eventually need rebuilt. My neighbor has been borrowing/renting a tractor cause his powershift went out on his 1270.

Pay with your wallet or pay with your patience- either way you are going to pay in some manner so figure out which one suits you. Do you have more patience or money?

As for taking off or inching something onto a trailer then you will have to probably slip the clutch some but that is the nature of nearly any tractor and certainly not like slipping it every time you turn in a field.

The 1070 and 1370 had a three speed power shift in four mechanical ranges. That was the only transmission offered in the 1370 I know of. The 1070 may have had a gear drive only option. None of them where a full power shift that I know of. I will admit that I am not that knowledgeable on many Case tractors. I have worked on the 1070,1370, and 1570 tractors. These all had the 12 speed partial power shift in them. The 12 speed was an option on the 1170.

When you have the partial power shift they use an internal clutch pack rather than the traditional flywheel clutch. That pack is oil lubricated. The flywheel has a torque limiting plate in it. So when you use the clutch in them your not slipping a dry clutch in the flywheel.

Friend of mine put a newly hired hand on a 1586 IH with a new clutch in it. Kid was running too high a gear and slipping the clutch even using to TA too. He destroyed that new clutch in 2 days.

I wouldn't slip that clutch at all.

Rick

Big difference in slipping a clutch to make a smooth start in any proper usage gear and slipping the clutch on ends making turns.
It only takes a coupla seconds to shift up or down.

With all due respect to everyones opinions , what do you think is happening inside a PS every time the lever is changed? It is full uf clutch plates and yes they are in oil but if used to the extreme they wear and all the material goes into the fluid and hopefully gets filtered out before it creats all kinds of problems in the valve banks etc. I'm not saying riding the clutch is good practice but I'm also not sure what you are doing would be considered by all as "riding" the clutch. Slipping it to accomplish a task is not "riding" it. I don't call inching back to hook up wagons all day, as riding the clutch. To me "riding" the clutch would be using it to lower speed or keep engine rpm up because of too high a gear for the operation out in the field under load. If that is what you are doing then like they have all said, find a better way. Everyones definition is different.

You keep slipping the clutch going down the row baling,etc., you will have something to b!tch about when you have to replace the clutch.

The 1170/75 was an 8 spd only dry 15" button clutch.
Loren

a Case does have a big clutch in comparison to other brands, good thing you can slip the clutch on a 30 series deere because they will fall on their face and die at anything less than 1500 rpm's

Think of the clutch as a very large disk brake and I think you'll worry less.

Same principle - just in reverse.

You probably use the clutch in one full haying session a lot less than you use your car brakes just running around town on a typical day. And probably a lot less days of haying than days of driving.

You will always slip the clutch, but as others say, pick your gears and use the throttle to change speed as much as you can.

Keep your foot on the floor when not using it.

clutch slipping will catch the operator a scathing
blast of wraith around here.

Ask enough people that have not had to change a clutch themselves from someone riding it other than starts or easing to a hitch and you can get your bad habits confirmed as not a problem. Your tractor, so ride it to kingdom come. Its your pocket book. At least if it goes out you have informed enough people as to why. If you only use the tractor a few hours a year it will most likely last as long as you are able to use the tractor. Ride on!
I don't even ride a clutch loading a tractor on a trailer up on and off ramps. Plenty of time to slip the clutch when you have it on a flat surface.

Easing into a windrow, starting out smoothly, backing into a hitch are NOT "riding the clutch."

The whole turning on headlands bit is just psychological. Odds are you're going FASTER around the corners slipping the clutch than you would be if you just idled down.

Contrary to popular belief, you CAN shift on the fly if you learn to match speeds and double-clutch.

(quoted from post at 12:56:34 07/01/13)

Contrary to popular belief, you CAN shift on the fly if you learn to match speeds and double-clutch.

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In my experience Case 8 speeds are easy to shift up(5-6-7-8), down shifting not so much. I have stranded myself on a hill with heavy wagons several times believing I could do it. I have got to the point where I will pull over at the bottom, let traffic around, put her in 5th or 6th as the load dictates, and let it pull the hill. I have a couple obscene hills on the way to one of the feed mill where I sell grain.

That said any of the Case engines of that era have huge torque down to 1000 rpms or less, just throttle back...

If you aren't needing to stop...then don't be pushing on the clutch. It's not a speed reducer, it's a STOPPER.

Pick a gear and stay in it.

If you have to slip the clutch a lot to get the tractor started, you are in too high of a gear.

You will get more work done in a lower gear than in a higher gear with the tractor in the shop with the clutch out.

Riding the clutch and slipping it are two different things - riding it is when you use the pedal for a foot rest and take the slack out of it which causes the throwout bearing to run - slipping it is like what you do to keep your bike from coming over backwards when you get too much loft or when you need that extra rpm to pull though or over a rough spot - what you are describing is what farmers have doing for a good long while - tractors are, or should be (bean counters aside), designed to handle this type of work - just remember a 'velvet touch' will outlast a 'ram & jam' technique over the long run

I figured I would try to better explain what I am doing here.

1. Baling, I engage the clutch fully as I am starting in the windrow. I have found that there is a point where the pickup does not want to accept more hay while it is trying to start the bale and hay will pack up at the pickup. Just before that happens, I fully disengage the clutch and allow the tractor roll stop or slow. In some cases, I get to friggin back up which spreads hay backwards but seems to work most of the time. I then come back up and slip the clutch to slow speed for about 2-3sec until I can see the pickup sucking hay in. Then clutch is fully engaged until monitor says bale is ready. push clutch to stop, restart process.

2. Raking. 3rd/hi is about 10mph at the rpms I run which is maybe 1500. It is a ROUGH friggin ride but rake works better. I have rpms at maybe just over idle, fully engage clutch, throttle up to desired speed. At headlands, reduce rpm to idle. As starting the turn, completely disengage clutch and allow tractor to slow in the turn. Bring rpms up a touch and slip clutch for about 2-4sec while finishing turn. Fully engage clutch near idle, add throttle and repeat.

3. moving bales, I operate similarly and always reduce throttle to reduce speed differential between engine and trans. I try to roll into stuff with clutch full disengaged when possible. When loading a truck, I approach by reducing rpm a bit, line up, then completely disengage clutch while I lift loader to position. I then slip clutch to approach and disengage and let tractor roll up. Only then do I slip for 2-4sec to get final position until I apply brakes, disengage clutch, set bale, and reverse.


In all circumstances, I try to never slip the clutch at full operating rpm other than baling because the PTO needs it. I also have to have "some" engine speed for the loader due to loader speeds.

I own CNC machines and live in the school of "use it hard, but don't abuse it". I cannot stand watching CNC owners that run rapid speeds (positioning) at 50% to "save the machine". The math does not work out. Lose 20K in productivity to save 4K in bearings that will STILL fail eventually. If you have a 1000lb slug of steel on the table, yeah, slow up. 30lbs of Al, if the machine cannot take it, it don't belong in my shop!

Could be in the name. Try "reasonaleline" instead
of "fastline" .
Gear the tractor down instead of jamming and
cramming everything to the max.

I can agree with the button clutch being harder on the flywheel. I just did a clutch in my 430. I ended up taking .060" off the flywheel. Also had to put washers on the bolts so they wouldnt bottom out.
The pressure plate was worn too - Id say around .020".