D-4 Cat with pony start questions

old

Well-known Member
Ok so a friend just got a D-4 cat with pony start. I have never messed with a pony start engine so how bad are they really. Always been told there a real pain in the back sides. By the way this guy has NEVER sat on a Dozier so guess who gets the fun if running it and maybe teaching him how?? All in all he may not have gotten to bad a deal he payed only $2800 for it but till I see it I will not know if he got took or not.
Thanks if you can help me learn fast how to start it up. If it was electric start it would be no big deal
 
We have a 1939 D4 with pony start, and the best advice I can give you is to find a manual for it. Basically we turn on the gas and start the pony, then when that is warmed up good we turn on the diesel and engage the diesel to the pony, rev up the pony, and get the diesel spinning enough to get oil pressure. I think there is a compression release on the diesel that is used when engaging the pony to it. We always start ours with ether but they may start without it (ours is very tired). Once the diesel is running we shut the gas off and let the pony run itself out. Hope this helps, it is easier to show than it is to tell.
Lon
 
I used to have one of these, First check oil and water levels, turn on the gas to the pony, set it for full choke and low throttle, should start right up...this has a connecting manifold that warms up the desiel as it runs aidding in cold weather starts. In warm weather 5 mins. should be plently of time for the pony to be warm enough to start the desiel. It has an engage lever to spin the desiel and a compression lever to bring the compression up when the desiel is spinning good, should not need either. Its easy after you have done it a few times. Good old dozers and easy on fuel for what they will do. As always be careful out there. J.Everett
 
all of them that i ran had good running ponies on them, never had a problem with the motor, just the clutch that engaged it
 
I should clarify things a little more, after thinking about it, the right level engages the gear drive, the second or left lever engages the clutch to spin the diesel...the decompression is over on the fuel rack. Make sure she's in neutral and the main clutch is out. Also might not hurt to make sure the fuel rack will slide forward and back, I had one once that had been sitting for years that the rack was stuck wide open...a interesting moment when it started. Just keep the blade level with the horizon when pushing...well you'll see. J. Everett
 
Yep understand the show and tell stuff. That is one reason over the years a good number of people form Y-T have gotten my phone number since it can be easier to explain things on the phone then it is by typing it out.
 
One thing I dodn't see mmentioned is you may want to wear ear protection when running the pony. It really cackles.

Gene
 
I have operate a number of dozier and back hoes and high lifts etc just never been around ones with the pony start on them. Have a Cletrac HG with dozier blade and had a TD-6 years ago and have been on a number of others over the years.
 
Old
Serial number should be on tag on the left rear bottom corner of the rear end. With that we can identify what year he has. I have a 1955 D4-7U that I have been working on for some time. Just love the sound of that cat purring.. LOL. Let us know how the start up goes. I have several books and am willing to help if I can..
Jo
 
Thanks. This is one of those guys who buys something but almost never know what he is getting. At this time all I know about it is that he has it coming so it will be fun to play with a machine like this again. I had a TD-6 years ago so operating it should be just a little playing with it to learn the levers then go for it but starting well the pony I know just enough about to know they can be trouble. What was really funny is my friend told me well you do not always have to use to pony engine to start it and I told him the pony engine is the starter for the diesel engine
 
There is a few things to know about them, might have been mentioned below but if not..

Keep the oil clean in these, good idea to run the carb out of gas when done with it, and the diesel is spinning. They like good spark and fuel, have to keep that magneto firing a nice spark. I am not sure if the carb on this horizontally opposed engine is prone to leak down fuel into the crankcase, I have seen it on my D7, overflowed the crankcase, run it like that and you already know I am sure LOL.

Some of these need to have the diesel engaged to circulate water, my D7 does, not sure about the D4, so if working on just the starting engine, you can't run them long, again, I am comparing apples and oranges, but... good to know.

These are great in cold weather, if you can get that starting engine running, then the diesel is likely to fire, might take some spin time prior too, but no batteries and electric starter in my opinion, on one of these will compare, especially with an engine that has some wear, less compression, etc, sawmill near me has a D13000 (D8 motor- 40's era, no turbo) and without that starting engine, cause its worn, be a real problem for him to get it running, its great, you get oil and coolant circulating, warming, no compression, half compression, and the motor will be well lubed and warming up when you turn on the fuel, unlike a cold start up, you don't get that, this I am sure is just redundant to mention, but I am a fan of these for this alone on these older ones.

One of the reasons people say they are a pain is because no one really takes care of them, I can say, that the one D7, I could hand crank the starting engine and get the diesel to fire, with little trouble. They are a seemingly old tech, high rpm engine, but with some care, they can run pretty good, the one on my D7 will really lug down in the cold, takes awhile before you can put compression to half or full, hard to believe it was also designed for the D13000, (D8 motor, 6cyl.) given how it just seems to be enough for the 4 cylinder D8800. Often times the old gas tanks are rusted and have coffee grind size rust particles plugging things up, like the sediment bowl, that can make for a poorly running engine.

I do believe I have one book in my military tech manual collection which is for a 40's era D4 tractor, I would highly recommend your friend sourcing the Serviceman's Reference Book, Operating Instructions, and the Parts Catalog, my tech manual has all of those bound in. I kinda collect these just to have and for reference and helping others, it has all those books bound together, if in fact it is of a WWII era tractor, these are nice books to find for those tractors, they do appear on ebay, but I have been outbid by people who use them for reference just for making models, they used to be inexpensive, but are really nice finds, just not so inexpensive any more, they are a pain to search for because not everyone lists them with the same title etc. Over the years I have been able find various ones for that era of Caterpillar tractors There was a person who was on another forum/board and he listed one, first one of these I ever found for my D7 and he was real greedy about it, so over the years I grabbed as many of these as I could find, for the purpose of eventually, not as of yet though, selling the extras off and making my money back, I do not like people who know you need something, its a one of or hard to find and they want too much money, knowing you'll go for it, because where or when you will find another etc.

Hopefully some help, I think often times since some of these tractors are so old, not everyone knows about some of the important things when using the starting engines, how to take care of them etc, probably straight up for you with some helpful tips.

One thing about that tractor, if it has a 4 bottom roller track frame, they can nosedive a lot when cutting, the 5 roller frame is better, your friend may or may not benefit from learning on one of these, can be difficult at first to take an even cut, loose material and pushing that off is easier to learn on as you probably already know.

Serial number will be on tags in 2 places and did match from the factory, one will be on the back, left side of the tractor, the other on the engine block, if no tags are present, it will be stamped under where they were, if different numbers, means the motor has been changed out. For example;7U is one series of these and is a wide gauge, 6U is a narrow gauge. There were 7J, 2T and 5T series of these as well, might turn out to be one of those if that old.
 
I will second that, "Operators Instructions" are really helpful for someone new to these.

We had one old D7 when I was a youngster, and I was familiar with it, but I made a cheat sheet from the book, so when it arrived I knew what to do, as soon as I unloaded it, I had to drive out of town for work, I was glad to have the information for reference, and although I grew up around one, seen it started many many times, I never had any instruction on it, and or had a chance to run that one, though I was a rider on it !
 
From what I gather from the Cat forums, the biggest problem with the ponys is maintenance. A lot of people don't give them much thought, until they won't start. They are pretty simple gas engines but dirt and rust and time take their toll. Some people start them with a 12v electric starter with a drive belt. Mine came that way, but the PO took the starter. The ACMOC website has a real good forum on these.
 
How can you go by Old and have never ran a pony motor, my tricycle had a pony motor on it! LOL
 
Very simple I was warned about them by and older person so I have pretty much been able to stay away from them. Did work on a job site that had a D-8 cat with pony start but all I did was sit in the dump truck and watched the guy start it so did not see all that much. The IH TD-6 I had was a gas over diesel so sort of like a pony start but not the same
 
Before you try it look down along side the starter motor n locate the 2 levers Ones clutch and ones starter pinion engage. cant rember which is which. But you pull short bent one up then pull long straight one to spin. BEFORE you start motor loop a piece of rope around short one to pull it up with if you dont when u pull it up back of your handWILL TOUCH END OF SPARKPLUG on that mag fired pony it BITES BAD BTDT good luck.
 

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