OT; 22 LR cal groups revisited

Some time back I asked opinions on 22 LR groupings as rifles with telescopes were new to me. Well it has been quite some time since I was finally able to get back to the range. I got a lot of advice and figured I’d take just about all of it. I also did a bit of reading on the subject (should have done that first) and picked up a tip or two. Here are the results so far;
I fully floated the barrel not as much for harmonics but I found the end of the stock was pressing on it in such a way that, depending on how tight the action hold down screw was, the point of aim was changing considerably. I also cut down the chamber end of the barrel so the chamber length, while not quite Match is closer to Bentz. At least the rifling engraves the first ring of most bullets.
Someone mentioned keeping the flat of my finger on the trigger and sure enough I found I was unconsciously putting my first knuckle on it.
I got a sand bag to rest the back of the stock on which helped remove lots of my movement.
I also made up some different targets with a cross that helped match the scope cross hairs to aid in zeroing. I think this made a big difference.
Someone mentioned that they didn’t think anyone could get a good group using Federal (I think they were) hollow points. I took a close look at the bullets and it seemed to me that the holes in the tips were not all that consistent. I figured that might make some “corkscrew” (for lack of a better term). I got some Blazer HV round nose and some CCI standard velocity. The Blazers grouped noticeably tighter. I read that some say the high velocity get upset as they go transonic and sure enough the standard velocity produced consistently tighter groups yet. Times being what they are I think it will be a long time before I can come up with any match ammo let alone any 22s.
I read that some experts say not to clean the barrel for tighter groups. This was difficult for me to do as I never put anything away without a good cleaning. Darned if this didn’t work. After about 50 rounds things got and seemed to stay consistent.
The picture is of a 5 shot group at 50 yds (there wasn’t a 75 yd position at this particular range) on a gusty day. I spent a lot of time waiting for the target holder to stop rocking in the wind. While not a world record like some posters seem to have achieved it is getting better and I think I can get even tighter with less wind and better ammo. Thanks for the suggestions.

Original post

looks like you got it figured out, good group

I think you're doing quite well.

I must have missed the original post. Some of the claims made there are hilarious.

Looks like a good group to me.

As far as the last post I'm reminded of the old saying 2nd liar doesn't stand a chance.

IIRC this is a gun you put together yourself? Looks like you've got a good start. If you can find any, try some of the Eley target ammo. Expensive, but it will tell you what you and your rifle are really capable of.

My definition of accuracy is if I can kill a squirrel out of the top of a white oak while it is laying on a limb trying to blend in.

Or if I can kill a coyote at 75-100 yards.

If I can do that, then I dont care about anything else.

Gene

For scope tweaking I like to use a 1 inch square sticker placed 45 degrees to the horizontal on a plane sheet of paper for a target. That way, I can place the cross hairs in the center, with the hairs crossing the corners of the sticker. Easy to center that way.

JF, I remember your other thread and was going to comment but it spun out of hand too quickly. You got some good advice in that thread and tons of bad. Its looks like your reading up was the best and following what was known good advice. Here are a few things that I can think of that may help you:

That action probably is not strong enough to have the barrel free floated. Some people would say to bed the barrel out from the action about 6 inches and then free float it (and thats good advice) but first I would put a pad near the end of the stock. You just have to bed 1/4 inch or so to give the barrel support. Then play with the tension on the action screw, start from scratch every time you shoot and remove all pressure when you quit so the gun is stored with no pressure. Also, get a good inch pound torqe wrench for setting tension. You gun might really like some pressure on the end and if not its easy to remove (then you can go back to 6 inches of bedding out from the action).

For trigger pull, try pinching it, that really works for some people. Just put your thumb on the back of the trigger gaurd and your index finger on the trigger and pinch. Not only does it get good feel for the trigger, it removes your hand from the stock.

Try sand bags front and back, totally remove the bipod. That bipod will have harmonics that are impossable to duplicate shot to shot depending on how you hold the gun. You can remove that variable with sand bags up front.

I like CCI Blazers but remember that Blazers are made by both Federal and CCI. Last I knew the bulk packs of 550 were made by Federal and the 500 bricks in boxes of 50 were made by CCI. You can also tell by the bullet shape and the product numbers but I cant find the link I has saved for that info. Dont matter I guess, that info could have changed since this last ammo shortage. In any case, its worth knowing in case your gun takes a liking to Federal or CCI or vice versa.

Good news is, I think its easy to get the expensive match .22 rounds, its just the normal stuff that wont be on the shelf for a while.

You are correct, put the cleaning kit away, for inside the barrel at least. You can clean the rest of the gun if you like but you want to keep the lube in the barrel for that ammo you are shooting. If you switch ammo, you can clean it but you dont need to. I [b:233a344a6e][i:233a344a6e]never[/i:233a344a6e][/b:233a344a6e] use a brush though, just a patch on weed eater line. I wont even use a cleaning rod, its too easy to wreck a barrel with one of those.

Keep up the good work, it looks like you really made some headway since you last posted. Last thing I can tell you is to take things slow from now on. Change only one thing at a time so you know if it dont work you can go back to what you had. Also on the same lines, try shooting the gun a few times after you make a change because from here on out you may change something and it seems like it dont work or is worse but you were really having a bad day. Shooting multiple times will show that. Good luck!

Sounds like more good hints to try

I've been trying to find some Eley (I forget which one now they make so many) for about 3 months and gave up. Same thing with Lapua (which was recommended).

Looks pretty good to me! Glad you were able to get so much improvement. And thanks for re-posting the original thread, I laughed all over again!

I still recall some fool who claimed he was shooting something like a 1" pattern at 75 yards or something with a snubnosed pistol. I have enough trouble shooting a 6" .357 and keeping a pattern less than about a foot at 25 yards. But that .22 is looking good. The availability of a scope and a decent rest can really make a difference.....

(quoted from post at 21:21:06 04/16/13) I've been trying to find some Eley (I forget which one now they make so many) for about 3 months and gave up. Same thing with Lapua (which was recommended).

Click to expand...

Champion's Choice seems to have both some Lapua and Eley in stock, unless they havent updated things in a while. The hoarders didnt seem to be grabbing the $30 a box ammo, they were looking for the $30 a brick ammo. Of course, Im sure it changes day to day but if you are willing to shell out the cash for the high end stuff your chances are much better at getting it.

http://www.champchoice.com/cat-Eley-277.aspx

http://www.champchoice.com/prod-Lapua_Midas____22LR_Match_Ammunition__per_100_Rounds_-3501.aspx?

In my experience, the high end ammo is not worth the extra cash though. Everybody expects a miracle in an expensive box with tiny groups but due to the nature of the beast that .22s are, its like the lottery if you buy expensive stuff and it does anything other than a slight improvement (and I do mean slight). You have to tune your gun to your ammo because you cant handload with a .22 so why not find a cheap, easy to find ammo thats consistant and tune to that? Thats what I do anyway. Of course, now with the ammo shortage, [b:122ef6e39d][i:122ef6e39d]finding[/i:122ef6e39d][/b:122ef6e39d] ammo is the miracle much less it being cheap or the consistant brand you want. Its a strange time right now, might be best to just ride it out...

(quoted from post at 19:54:24 04/16/13)

(quoted from post at 21:21:06 04/16/13) I've been trying to find some Eley (I forget which one now they make so many) for about 3 months and gave up. Same thing with Lapua (which was recommended).

Click to expand...

Champion's Choice seems to have both some Lapua and Eley in stock, unless they havent updated things in a while. The hoarders didnt seem to be grabbing the $30 a box ammo, they were looking for the $30 a brick ammo. Of course, Im sure it changes day to day but if you are willing to shell out the cash for the high end stuff your chances are much better at getting it.

http://www.champchoice.com/cat-Eley-277.aspx

http://www.champchoice.com/prod-Lapua_Midas____22LR_Match_Ammunition__per_100_Rounds_-3501.aspx?

In my experience, the high end ammo is not worth the extra cash though. Everybody expects a miracle in an expensive box with tiny groups but due to the nature of the beast that .22s are, its like the lottery if you buy expensive stuff and it does anything other than a slight improvement (and I do mean slight). You have to tune your gun to your ammo because you cant handload with a .22 so why not find a cheap, easy to find ammo thats consistant and tune to that? Thats what I do anyway. Of course, now with the ammo shortage, [b:b9a72dfd0b][i:b9a72dfd0b]finding[/i:b9a72dfd0b][/b:b9a72dfd0b] ammo is the miracle much less it being cheap or the consistant brand you want. Its a strange time right now, might be best to just ride it out...

Click to expand...

Rich, you can hand load .22. Just have to buy the brass. I was shocked to learn this a couple of years ago when in the Rogers MN Cabella's I saw both the brass and bullets on sale. I think only the hard core target shooters do it. Guess I really wouldn't call in reloading, more like building your own because all the components are new.

Rick

(quoted from post at 22:44:34 04/16/13)

(quoted from post at 19:54:24 04/16/13)

(quoted from post at 21:21:06 04/16/13) I've been trying to find some Eley (I forget which one now they make so many) for about 3 months and gave up. Same thing with Lapua (which was recommended).

Click to expand...

Champion's Choice seems to have both some Lapua and Eley in stock, unless they havent updated things in a while. The hoarders didnt seem to be grabbing the $30 a box ammo, they were looking for the $30 a brick ammo. Of course, Im sure it changes day to day but if you are willing to shell out the cash for the high end stuff your chances are much better at getting it.

http://www.champchoice.com/cat-Eley-277.aspx

http://www.champchoice.com/prod-Lapua_Midas____22LR_Match_Ammunition__per_100_Rounds_-3501.aspx?

In my experience, the high end ammo is not worth the extra cash though. Everybody expects a miracle in an expensive box with tiny groups but due to the nature of the beast that .22s are, its like the lottery if you buy expensive stuff and it does anything other than a slight improvement (and I do mean slight). You have to tune your gun to your ammo because you cant handload with a .22 so why not find a cheap, easy to find ammo thats consistant and tune to that? Thats what I do anyway. Of course, now with the ammo shortage, [b:710f6ae629][i:710f6ae629]finding[/i:710f6ae629][/b:710f6ae629] ammo is the miracle much less it being cheap or the consistant brand you want. Its a strange time right now, might be best to just ride it out...

Click to expand...

Rich, you can hand load .22. Just have to buy the brass. I was shocked to learn this a couple of years ago when in the Rogers MN Cabella's I saw both the brass and bullets on sale. I think only the hard core target shooters do it. Guess I really wouldn't call in reloading, more like building your own because all the components are new.

Rick

Click to expand...

Rick, you are correct, it can be done but in practice, its just never done. I havent ran into a single person that did it or even heard of anybody that did. If you think about it, its easier to tune your rifle than try to load for it. With such a tiny case as the .22, just changing FPS with powder differences would be a nightmare. With a tuner, you just spin the adjustment knob and do some shooting. And with a .22, consistancy is [i:710f6ae629]the[/i:710f6ae629] most important element and with some cheap rounds being within 10fps of each other you can see how it just wouldnt be worth your time to hand load .22.

Shooting .22 competitively is tough enough without bringing in an element where you end up being a lone wolf. Its easier to follow in other peoples footsteps, even if you dont follow their full walk and only take away parts of it.

You also have to add in that more development work has been done on the lowly 22 LR than any other round. It's been around in the same form since the 1880's IIRC. It amazes me that it does what it does sometimes.