Hand crank start (distributor)

DENNIS MIN · Apr 14, 2013

All,

Perhaps my search is inadequate, but is there a comprehensive list of do's and don'ts regarding hand-cranks of a tractor?

I did not see a reference in the margins of YTmag.

D.

huntingreen2day · Apr 14, 2013

Don"t crank it like you are trying to wind it up. I get the crank up to about the 9 o"clock position and pull it over the top. That is all a well tuned engine needs.

Royse · Apr 14, 2013

I don't know that I've seen a list like that either.
Might be interesting to put one together.
I'll add don't wrap your thumb around the crank handle.
If it kicks back and needs to come out of your hand it will break your thumb.

Edit - I forgot to mention, you put (distributor) in your title. If it has a distributor
it will still need a battery with a decent charge to start, even when hand cranking.
All of my hand crankers have magneto ignitions.

Anonymous-0 · Apr 14, 2013

NEVER push down on the compression stroke--always pull up.

DENNIS MIN · Apr 14, 2013

Royse,

I did not intend to make this chat about distributor engines only.

I was hoping the collective experiences and thinkers could maybe add some insight. I think the next generation of folks may have to "re-learn" the hazards of hand-cranking an engine.

I think if we compose this correctly, it may be a valuable additon to this wonderful site.

D.

JMOR · Apr 14, 2013

You will always be at greater risk of bodily harm trying to hand crank a distributor engine, because THEY ARE NOT DESIGNED FOR HAND CRANKING. Most distributor engines are designed for some static advance........this means it will fire before TDC.......thus kick-back & try to remove your thumb, break you arm, throw the crank where ever, etc.....none good. A magneto has a device called an "impulse". At cranking speeds the device ensures that the spark will not occur until after TDC, thus no kickback. Model T Fords had a distributor, BUT they also had a lever such that the operator could set the timing to RETARD during cranking.

Fritz Maurer · Apr 14, 2013

I think a battery ignition system is particularly dangerous to hand crank. If the advance mechanism be defective, like stuck at full advance, or broken springs. I would never crank one unless I knew the distributor was in perfect condition and properly timed.

Russ from MN · Apr 14, 2013

I like to hand start our Farmall C, even though it has a good electric start system. It makes me feel confident of my mechanical abilities when it starts the second pull of the crank!

Bob · Apr 14, 2013

WELL, here"s a video that pretty much shows how NOT to do it, starting at about :54 into the video.

(Lest I be chastised for it NOT being a family-friendly video, it is played on a regular basis an CMT, on basic cable. Saw it for the first time a while back, and marveled at the cranking scene... NOT possible, or SAFE!)
Crank my tractor...

Bob · Apr 14, 2013

Also, with a distributor, you need a battery, anyway, to power the ignition, so might as well repair the starter. No matter WHAT that costs, it will be cheaper than a broken arm, or even a death knock to the head.

I don't fear a lot of mechanical things, but I do NOT crank tractors.

Tony S. · Apr 14, 2013

Make sure it"s in neutral. Speaking from experience many years ago. Sometimes they do start on the FIRST pull.

Royse · Apr 14, 2013

(quoted from post at 17:31:57 04/14/13) Royse,

I did not intend to make this chat about distributor engines only.

I was hoping the collective experiences and thinkers could maybe add some insight. I think the next generation of folks may have to "re-learn" the hazards of hand-cranking an engine.

I think if we compose this correctly, it may be a valuable additon to this wonderful site.

D.

I agree with you, its not something the young guys, like me

are going to know unless they are taught.
I mentioned it because hand cranking a magneto fired machine
and a distributor fired machine have different requirements.
Both should be included I think. One would wear them self out
trying to hand crank a distributor ignition without a battery in it!

Janicholson · Apr 14, 2013

I will answer the question as directly as possible.
There is no reason to be nervous if things are correct.
Rules:
Make sure the real static timing (stopped) is set to TDC on #1. (a test light hooked to ground and the side distributor terminal, just lights up when the timing mark is on TDC. (no initial advance at all. (it is the correct setting for the tractor any way)

Have it out of gear and PTO out of gear and pulley out of gear.

Turn on the fuel at the tank (always off when not running!!!)

Set the choke (if at outside temp, not having been running)

Set the throttle at just above idle.
Pull out the ignition switch. (very important)

Assure clear distance to people and animals, as well as buildings and machinery.

Insert the crank at 6 o"clock position and push it in to engage the crankshaft snout.

With your hands under the crank handle, and thumbs following your first fingers (not as you would a hammer) and your head and upper body a few inches from possible unexpected rotational contact, pull left and up on the handle briskly till you are at 12:00.

Do not go past 12:00.

If starts run to the choke to keep it running (usually just shut the choke off (push in)

If not running put the choke in just a little and crank again.

Some times it takes 4 or more cranks unless you already know how to set the controls to start on the first electric roll over. Jim

DENNIS MIN · Apr 14, 2013

JMOR, Bob, Fritz, et al,

I was thinking along the lines of having a group of folks here to administer their advice in the hand-start crank safety.

I would hope that the advice(s) would include diesel, distributor, magneto ignition tractors.

It seemed that there is a large amount of experience and know-how that is going to the wayside, and the cost is pain, or worse.

D.

DENNIS MIN · Apr 14, 2013

Jannicholsen,

what if the tractor was not yours? You =mention that certain things must be right, but if they are not exactly as predicted?

I was hoping to generate a discussion of the most likely things, to avaoid or perform when hand cranking a tractor.

Your input is well advised and appreciated.

D.

Nebraska Kirk · Apr 14, 2013

I have started 2 distributor equipped tractors with the hand crank, a Farmall 400 and a Farmall Super C. On both I followed the standard procedure of pulling up on the crank handle 1/4 turn at a time. Both started fairly easily and did not even try to kick back. I was actually amazed at how well the 400 started with the hand crank.

Janicholson · Apr 14, 2013

I would never hand crank a tractor I was not extremely familiar with. My contact with reality is important to me. Jim

Janicholson · Apr 14, 2013

I will add that there is really only one moderately common diesel that hand cranks and that is found on Gas start diesel run Farmalls and McCormick/Internationals. Some diesel engines use a hand cranked (or potentially hand cranked) pony motor as a starter motor, those count some, but they are gasoline engines in fact.
All magneto equipped tractors either have a retard lever or control, or a impulse equipped mag drive that sets the snap moment at TDC or a bit later.
If it has a crank snout sticking out, it was (when set correctly and in tune) safe to start with a crank as I described. Jim

DENNIS MIN · Apr 14, 2013

I, too, prefer my immediate contact with reality.

I also enjoy the banter of well-reasoned thoughts.

D.

jon f mn · Apr 14, 2013

Yep that is how it's done.

armand tatro · Apr 14, 2013

You want a discussion on safe hand crank starting. This is part of that discussion. Best and safest thing you do is hang that crank on the wall with the rest of your antiques and fix the starting system! use the electric starting system and enjoy the modern day systems! Armand

Hal/ Eastern WA · Apr 14, 2013

When I was a kid we had a Case VAC, and for many years the electric starter would not work. So we used the crank, and the VAC would start easily in any weather. I found that it had to have a battery hooked up for it to start, but that battery did not have to have almost any charge in it.

Cranking the VAC was easy--I was kind of a little kid, and I am sure that I was only about 9 or 10 when I first crank started it. I never had any problems with the crank doing anything I didn"t want it to.

Later I figured out a way to fix the starter terminal by retapping it, so the starter would work again. We got a new battery and had to tinker with the generator to get that reliable. But even with the electric starter working, we always kept the crank in the bracket where it was supposed to be stored on the tractor. Just in CASE!

rustred · Apr 14, 2013

well the most important thing is to have the timing set to factory spec"s and you don"t have a thing to worry about or be scared of a hand crank. if that was the case those old farmers would have got no work done if they didn"t crank start their tractors. lots of them just did not fix starters or generators or could not afford it.it was nothing to hand crank a tractor.
also these people that time engines by "ear" I would be hesitant of cranking those.
I just finished working on my super w-6 which I hand cranked this morning. 2 lifts and it was running. I installed a 6 volt battery and cables. got the generator working and the lights. rethreaded the manifold for a new pipe. checked compression and installed new champion d16 plugs. and that was todays project. another nice original rustyred tractor saved.

36 Coupe · Apr 15, 2013

Only one.DONT hand crank a tractor.

Hand crank start (distributor)

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