Using old tractors:

Hello,

I have a question and would like all the feed back I can get. I'm trying to get my own farm to work but the kicker is I would like to use as much older equipment that I can. (old school I guess you could say) I have a 8n, an H farmall, a 100 farmall, a cub, and a john deere mt. My question is could any of these pull/operate a hay baler? I'm not going to commercial production for hay, I just want to be more self sustaining for my self. Most everyone around here that farms anything is telling me to sell the old stuff and buy much newer stuff and forget trying to use the old. But i believe that this old iron was the workhorse back then. And if farmers did farming with it way back then i should be able to do something with it now. I just need an idea as to what types of implements and equipment I need to look for to be able to make myself more self sustaining.

Any help appreciated,

Thank you
Wayne

For three years I used a Farmall H to run a square baler and a 9"
haybine and it worked fine. This year I have a 300 which is an H
with some upgrades. I do not have personal experience with the
other tractors for haying but I am sure any of them could pull a
sicklebar or a rake at least.
Zach

Back in the day, a lot of farmers did not bale hay, or had it custom baled.
That said, your H or even the 8N will run a baler that has its own engine.
I know that both have been used on smaller balers without their own engine.
The 8N and smaller might have some trouble being too light. Especially on hills.
Live PTO would sure be a plus running a baler without its own engine.

If you are young enough to do hard continuous work for 10 hours at a time, do it. Some modern practices are good for both the land, and the environment. No till planting, and field cultivator instead of moldboard plow is one example. A self powered baler New Holland, or JD, or IH, will be usable with an H. Use good judgement in uneven ground and hills. Limit wagon pull behind to about 50 bales in hilly fields. Make repairs on tools and the tractors that are not patches, but real rebuilding to specification. Will you make money. Not much. But the satisfaction is wort it. If you are married, make sure you have a clear mutual decision toward recognized objectives. Listen to old farmers in the area. Jim

My new tractor is a 4320. I know that is big compared to what you listed. If you are thinking big round bales, a 3020 is about the smallest for size and power, if you have any hills at all. Even that gets pushed around at times.

I have masde hay with old tractors and machin es for nearly 40 years. It can be done if you accept some limitations. Your H or Ford will run a sickle bar mower fine, probably your 100 too. Depending on your location you may need to crimp your hay to speed drying. Your tractors are all a bit small for a haybine, but would handle a crimper fine. Anything you have will do for raking. Your H will handle a small baler. If you pull a wagon behind the baler the Ford would be too light, especially if you have any hills. Live PTO is a great convenience, but not a show-stopper. I never had it on anything and I got by. You just need to allow for the limitation, don't be in a hurry and have fun doing it.

I too am trying to get a farm started from basically nothing. 5 years ago I was using a sickle mower and a John Deere A. I have found a few things to be true for me.
1. If the older equipment is in good shape it will do what it was intended for (often much cheaper than the newere on an hourly comparison.
2. Usually the older equipment is not in good shape and the cost of getting it there... (my first two years my parts per acre was more than my fertilizer/rent)
3. When it come to an acre/hour comparison the older equipment just can't get enough done in the same amount of time. (I found that stuff from the 40's was easy to acquire and get going, but stuff from the 60's/70's wasn't that much more expensive and would do almost twice as many acres/hour)
Each place and managament is different find what works for you and your goals.

For a number of years I mowed with a 46 jd A and #38 mower, raked and run the 69 NH S with a jd 420, course it has lpto, but its still a 57 model and 28 hp. Today I mow with an 08 jd 5303 and a 240 vicon disk mower, rake with a 37 F-20 IH, and run the 69 with a D-14 allis. I"ve baled a lot of wheat straw right along with much newer tractors and balers, ain"t nobody ever told me to get out of the way.

I believe it is prudent to stay cash positive and avoid debt. I work more than full time and my day job, so having good time saving farm equipment is a must.

How many acres do you farm?

This old C does alright on the old 477 NH. The H should do fine.

you could do what I did, start small & old, then try
to get stuff a little bigger and newer as you get
the cash flowing.

I usted to mow with a MT wide front and a 7 ft
sickle bar. Mow now with a 4040 JD with a 8ft. drum
mower. Can mow more than double with the drum mower.
It is a marvel to go round after round and not back
up. Being cool and listening to country music. Even
have time to go to town and loaf from 2 to 3 The
Amish north of me use horses, so any of your
tractors should do. Probably do need to get at
least 50hp tractor with 3 pt and independent pto.
Vic

No till planting is certainly an option on SOME soils...no panacea, but to say a field cultivator instead of a moldboard plow? FC will not prepare a decent seedbed by itself. Works fine (better choice than a disc) after a moldboard, chisel, or disk chisel.

I got by with a worn out 68 NH baler with a Wisconsin and a Deere sickle bar. Eventually I switched the 68 to PTO drive and even with a non live PTO tractor it's a step up IMO. I kind of like non-live PTO for the baler and haybine because when you hit the clutch things stop NOW! With some live PTO tractors you have to pull a lever to stop things. The sickle bar got replaced with a 7 foot NH haybine. I would never try to make good hay with just a sickle bar anymore. Not on a one man operation. A tedder is also essential in my area even with the haybines crusher because of heavy hay and damp weather.

I've finally got he the 68 pretty much rebuilt 100%. New feeder forks and poly twine made a world of difference. Now I get square bales instead of bananas and I don't get 3 missed bales or broken twine every 18-20 bales. Going to a DB990 was way more hp than the 68 needed, but live PTO and 12 speeds lets me match the ground speed to conditions, not something you can always do with a 3, 4 or 5 speed rig.

Old rakes in good shape work fine, but I'd dearly love a rotary rake. Basket rakes all rope the hay, just the way it is.

I think my newest piece of equipment is a late 70's tedder. You can get by fine with older stuff if it's in good shape. But some of it requires a lot more manpower because it was simply designed when labor was cheaper and readily available.

I'm going to say, I get the self sufficiency thing. I'm more of a homesteader than a farmer I suppose. But don't get too wrapped up in doing things the hard way just because it seems "right". I've seen an awful lot of people, myself included, wear themselves out trying to fit into the image in their head of how things should be done. I believe in using appropriate technology. Forking out a bedding winters bedding pack in a barn looks really noble in the pages of Backwoods Home, Small Farmers Journal or Countryside. Getting or renting a skid steer looks a lot smarter in real life!

(quoted from post at 20:03:38 03/24/13) I believe it is prudent to stay cash positive and avoid debt. I work more than full time and my day job, so having good time saving farm equipment is a must.

How many acres do you farm?

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Actually I don't really have a farm yet... I'm trying get as much equipment as i can before i purchase a place. Even then 10-15 ac would probably all i could afford, of which some of it would be garden, some pasture for horses, so really it's not going to be a lot of hay to make and such, my goal is to just be as self sustaining as we can be. And maybe earn a little from the farm in the form of a few crops to go to farmers markets with. If we get a bigger place then we could do more hay and maybe sell some. But I would'nt unless it would be good quality, good enough that i would feed my own animals.

Thanks everyone for the comments! I now have a better understanding of the "old stuff" vs newer. I guess to some of you it doesn't make a lot of sense to gather this stuff up and don't have a farm to run it on yet ( my wife don't totally get it either lol) but the way I figure it its better to have the tools and no tool box yet than have a 10 15 ac tool box and no tools to put in it. I have a very old rake, it was actually converted from horse drawn, i'm looking at a sickle bar mower that pulls behind, the guy that has it doesn't think it could work again "correctly" it's all there but the wooden pitman and the piece that the wooden pitman attaches to the sickle. Everythings freed up but the sickle. I know these old relics won't last a long time, if they will just go a little longer for me as i get them hopefully i can get newer "older" stuff and work my way up the ladder lol. Thank you again for all the replies.

"it's all there but the wooden pitman and the piece that the wooden pitman
attaches to the sickle"
I can't speak for all mowers, but that piece where the pitman arm attaches
to the sickle bar on my old JD mower is replaceable.
It rivets onto the bar similar to how the knives do, just takes longer rivets.
Pitman arms can be purchased or made as long as you have the ends.
Good luck!

A sickle bar is a great tool. But- for what a good sickle bar costs or rebuilding one so that it will work correctly and dependably, you may be able to find a decent haybine. Trust me, old worn out sickle bars are a nightmare until you understand exactly how to diagnose and repair them. Been there, done that, got the tee shirt. A $100.00 junk sickle mower that's missing parts and has been sitting in a fence line for 15 years may be just that- JUNK. As someone who has farmed with junk, and still does to an extent, sometimes it's better to get something in operating condition int he first place than to go through the frustrating, expensive learning stage involved in bringing junk back to operating status. I'm sure others here have done the " go forward 20 feet, stop, back up, get off, clear the sickle bar, climb back on, go forward 20 feet" method of harvesting hay. It's not fun, not at all efficient and can drive you back to that lovely house in town where the biggest problem is the garage door batteries needing replacement.

(quoted from post at 04:30:22 03/26/13) A sickle bar is a great tool. But- for what a good sickle bar costs or rebuilding one so that it will work correctly and dependably, you may be able to find a decent haybine. Trust me, old worn out sickle bars are a nightmare until you understand exactly how to diagnose and repair them. Been there, done that, got the tee shirt. A $100.00 junk sickle mower that's missing parts and has been sitting in a fence line for 15 years may be just that- JUNK. As someone who has farmed with junk, and still does to an extent, sometimes it's better to get something in operating condition int he first place than to go through the frustrating, expensive learning stage involved in bringing junk back to operating status. I'm sure others here have done the " go forward 20 feet, stop, back up, get off, clear the sickle bar, climb back on, go forward 20 feet" method of harvesting hay. It's not fun, not at all efficient and can drive you back to that lovely house in town where the biggest problem is the garage door batteries needing replacement.

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Thanks! I'm looking at this old sickle but in reality i know if it's going to be a big headache to get it going how much more od a headache is it going to be to use right? I did find a Hesston hay bine for $750 on one of the facebook boards i frequent, i didn't know if this was a bad price or not. I know my H has hydraulics but i don't think it has any remotes. I actually found a allis wd that has a remote. it's in good shape i think but the guys asking $1500 for it. Needs paint it's in it"s field clothes, but i know it does'nt really need paint to work lol.

(quoted from post at 09:38:00 03/26/13)

(quoted from post at 04:30:22 03/26/13) A sickle bar is a great tool. But- for what a good sickle bar costs or rebuilding one so that it will work correctly and dependably, you may be able to find a decent haybine. Trust me, old worn out sickle bars are a nightmare until you understand exactly how to diagnose and repair them. Been there, done that, got the tee shirt. A $100.00 junk sickle mower that's missing parts and has been sitting in a fence line for 15 years may be just that- JUNK. As someone who has farmed with junk, and still does to an extent, sometimes it's better to get something in operating condition int he first place than to go through the frustrating, expensive learning stage involved in bringing junk back to operating status. I'm sure others here have done the " go forward 20 feet, stop, back up, get off, clear the sickle bar, climb back on, go forward 20 feet" method of harvesting hay. It's not fun, not at all efficient and can drive you back to that lovely house in town where the biggest problem is the garage door batteries needing replacement.

Click to expand...

Thanks! I'm looking at this old sickle but in reality i know if it's going to be a big headache to get it going how much more od a headache is it going to be to use right? I did find a Hesston hay bine for $750 on one of the facebook boards i frequent, i didn't know if this was a bad price or not. I know my H has hydraulics but i don't think it has any remotes. I actually found a allis wd that has a remote. it's in good shape i think but the guys asking $1500 for it. Needs paint it's in it"s field clothes, but i know it does'nt really need paint to work lol.

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Don't know from experience but it was said that those old hestons had drive problems because too much load was on one of the chains. I think that the reel or maybe even the reel and knife both drove off the right end of one of the rollers so the chain driving the roller on the left tended to break a lot.

don't pull a wagon behind the baler and you can bale with anything...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wQm36ad6Js

I have a massey ferguson #3 square baler you could pull with any of your tractors. It's PTO driven but very small. It's going on craigslist real soon.

I pulled it with a Ford 1910, and I cut hay with a Farmall Cub and a 5 foot sickle bar. Pulled a New Idea hay rake with the cub. Just like you, I did it just to see if I could do it. It did just fine.

If you're not trying to crawl up and down hills, and you're not trying to pull a wagon, most of those tractors will run a small square baler.

Your H will be the big heavy tractor of the bunch, and probably the best suited out of all of them. On flat you might even be able to pull a small flat rack behind the baler and stack 50-60 bales on it.

The 8N will pull that baler and power it with a wagon behind no problem as long as you don't have hills. Back in the day I bet half the balers in the world were being pulled by 8ns

I use old equipment. Old 1206 IH that we got pretty cheap, about 4500 dollars. My haybine, NH Super 68 baler and CaseIH round baler were about 3500 total. Had to make a few small reapirs to the haybine to use it but it runs fine. So you don't have to limit yourself to small stuff. I saw a nice 706 IH gas, 730 Case gas and a AC D15 gas with loader all sell for under 1800 dollars each at auction last fall.

On the other side dad baled hay with a NH baler and an AC CA. About all the tractor could do was run the baler. One field we could stack about 30 bales on the wagon. The others we drop baled. CA is rated at 23 PTO HP and dry about 2800 pounds.

AS far as junk in a tree line is concerned some is repairable and some is just too far gone. I wouldn't pay more than scrap if it's in need of repair.

Rick

(quoted from post at 13:52:50 03/26/13) don't pull a wagon behind the baler and you can bale with anything...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wQm36ad6Js

I have a massey ferguson #3 square baler you could pull with any of your tractors. It's PTO driven but very small. It's going on craigslist real soon.

I pulled it with a Ford 1910, and I cut hay with a Farmall Cub and a 5 foot sickle bar. Pulled a New Idea hay rake with the cub. Just like you, I did it just to see if I could do it. It did just fine.

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Man, wished you weren't so far away lol. I pulled up a picture of a #3 and it's small kinda, but would be a great "starter" from the looks of it.
What were you going to ask for it? Yes sir, I just thought of that very chore for my cub if I can locate a sickle mower for it. I actually know a guy that has one mounted to his cub but it's restored for show and stuff he won't use it. I'm trying to talk him into selling it to me ( the sickle the tractor was his grand pa's and wouldn't part with it). Thanks for the replies. I'm starting to feel better about what I have as far as tractors and thier abilities. Thanks Y'all

If you could find a #3 baler in your area in good shape, it would be a nice baler to pull. It makes a full sized square, not like the Ford 520 baler. I bought it just as a toy. I planned on pulling it with a Farmall C, then, I sold the C because a guy made me a ridiculous offer on it. So, I used it a little bit with a Ford compact diesel, but since I have a 7 year old square baler, it really didn't get used much.

I also have a New Holland "horse head" baler. Err I mean, a New Holland 77 with a Wisconsin gas engine. It was used a long long time ago with a Farmall H pulling it, pulling a wagon behind, on these steep hills. It can be done. You just need lots of weights on the tractor and go slow. The NH 77 makes a large square bale. I think it's 16x18 instead of 14x18, I can't remember. I am sure someone will chime in. But, once I get it fixed up, it is also going on the sale block. I need to sell all these "toys" I have laying around so I have room for "tools" that I need to farm.

(quoted from post at 15:18:03 03/27/13)
If you could find a #3 baler in your area in good shape, it would be a nice baler to pull. It makes a full sized square, not like the Ford 520 baler. I bought it just as a toy. I planned on pulling it with a Farmall C, then, I sold the C because a guy made me a ridiculous offer on it. So, I used it a little bit with a Ford compact diesel, but since I have a 7 year old square baler, it really didn't get used much.

I also have a New Holland "horse head" baler. Err I mean, a New Holland 77 with a Wisconsin gas engine. It was used a long long time ago with a Farmall H pulling it, pulling a wagon behind, on these steep hills. It can be done. You just need lots of weights on the tractor and go slow. The NH 77 makes a large square bale. I think it's 16x18 instead of 14x18, I can't remember. I am sure someone will chime in. But, once I get it fixed up, it is also going on the sale block. I need to sell all these "toys" I have laying around so I have room for "tools" that I need to farm.

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If I didn't need it for straw I'd get rid of the NH Super 68. It gets used about once every 2 years.

Rick