I've had my deer hunting property since the early 70's. Legal right away is a county dirt road that is right away for 6 different properties. My property is the last one the county road. Ends on my ground. 10 years ago property bordering mine sold to a city person. Right away road runs through his property. first thing he does is puts up a locked gate. Had to have the sheriff explain that he can't block a public road. Then they started riding the 4 wheelers(ATV's) on my farm, tearing up the food plots and making trails through the woods, so I put up a gate after the county right away ends on my farm. Have a target range on my ground and last fall found close to 2000 empty brass there and 4 wheeler tracks all over the farm. Owner of adjoining farm claims not to be able to access about 5 acres of his except from my side, wants the gate down, this has been on going for about 2 years. Was out deer hunting Sunday, Snow on the ground and find more 4 wheeler tracks,follow tracks back to those 5 acres and there is a trail to the rest of his farm . Had the sheriff out this morning to see and see about pressing charges. Have tried many times to talk to this guy and it doesn't do any good. Just wondering what he'll try next. I have a shed on my farm with a room with a wood burning stove for getting out of the weather during deer season. Can't keep anything stored the because some one keeps breaking in and stealing anything there. Stove was missing Sunday.
- Thread starter BIG RUH
- Start date
Bryan inIowa
Member
Game cameras !
Vernon in Ks
Member
First let me say I will NEVER do anything that would get someone hurt. A similar situation on a farm I lease the tillable ground. Land owner thought they were my tracks and I thought they were his. When damage was becoming evedent he said something to me and we found out it wasn't either of us.(neither owns a 4 wheeler) I cut some small locus limbs with lots of thorns and placed them on the trails. Lots of flats seemed to of cured the problem.
People are such pains in the @ss, its incredible the trouble started by this nonsense. I agree, let out some line, carefully place some well hidden cameras and see what turns up, see who if anyone can be ID'd, why not bait the place with items easily stolen, act oblivious to what is going on, let it cool off, make sure to have some tracking devices carefully hidden on all items or use a similar method if at all possible, these fools are likely not thinking in this direction, thats where you nail them.
One thing is for sure you have to outsmart them. I think butting heads, confrontation, etc. just escalates the matter. I can understand the situation given you have been there quite some time, atv'rs disturbing the hunting and all the rest.
Same crap wants to happen here often enough to have to deal with it, but for the most part, if I stay on top of it, its minimized like it is right now, as I've got one more persistent jerk to catch judging by tire tread patterns. The sleds came in with the snow, but had to turn back as I did fence right across the powerlines on each side of a gate they use, and along with thick briars/prickers/ rambling rose, or what have you is growing and I piled a bunch I had pulled, really nasty stuff, so I've got them corralled, next thing is to slow them down, give me time to react, sooner or later the gauntlet will close in, may have to put a camera out, as I expected the fence to be cut, just another barrier and a way to document further aggression so when the time is right to make the call, I've got them. Thing is they do not realize they are being set up, I also legally use 1/4" steel angle iron cut to points welded on steel angle iron, ground to sharp points, rusted so you can't see them and use 2 legs to drive into the soil, lock in place, then camo them but good, a buddy came by and was helping with barbed wire, he could not find a one of these that were placed, he looked intently too. One atv came through before the fence was up, right over these spikes, they sure make short work of tires.
People are just annoying pains in the @ss about this, so just play the game, think of means or methods to get a desired result, outsmart them, they won't expect it, just don't project your moves or all of a sudden get all quiet, just let out some line, then use the element of suprise. It can take a little time and you don't get instant results, but eventually, you may have them right where you want them, just like that well placed shot, sometimes you have to wait it out to get the result.
I'd slowly drive them into confined areas eventually over time if at all possible, easier to nail them later, confrontation though I do it, is just a waste of time. I'm always nice about it, politely asking them to leave, not come back, either the same people or someone else shows up again, and around here it is a security issue too, so I keep tabs on things for that reason alone.
One thing is for sure you have to outsmart them. I think butting heads, confrontation, etc. just escalates the matter. I can understand the situation given you have been there quite some time, atv'rs disturbing the hunting and all the rest.
Same crap wants to happen here often enough to have to deal with it, but for the most part, if I stay on top of it, its minimized like it is right now, as I've got one more persistent jerk to catch judging by tire tread patterns. The sleds came in with the snow, but had to turn back as I did fence right across the powerlines on each side of a gate they use, and along with thick briars/prickers/ rambling rose, or what have you is growing and I piled a bunch I had pulled, really nasty stuff, so I've got them corralled, next thing is to slow them down, give me time to react, sooner or later the gauntlet will close in, may have to put a camera out, as I expected the fence to be cut, just another barrier and a way to document further aggression so when the time is right to make the call, I've got them. Thing is they do not realize they are being set up, I also legally use 1/4" steel angle iron cut to points welded on steel angle iron, ground to sharp points, rusted so you can't see them and use 2 legs to drive into the soil, lock in place, then camo them but good, a buddy came by and was helping with barbed wire, he could not find a one of these that were placed, he looked intently too. One atv came through before the fence was up, right over these spikes, they sure make short work of tires.
People are just annoying pains in the @ss about this, so just play the game, think of means or methods to get a desired result, outsmart them, they won't expect it, just don't project your moves or all of a sudden get all quiet, just let out some line, then use the element of suprise. It can take a little time and you don't get instant results, but eventually, you may have them right where you want them, just like that well placed shot, sometimes you have to wait it out to get the result.
I'd slowly drive them into confined areas eventually over time if at all possible, easier to nail them later, confrontation though I do it, is just a waste of time. I'm always nice about it, politely asking them to leave, not come back, either the same people or someone else shows up again, and around here it is a security issue too, so I keep tabs on things for that reason alone.
Long term the only thing you can do given the circumstances is to be present as much as possible. For somebody that has to work away from the property for 40 plus hours a week plus tend to family that leaves a lot of time for mischief to happen. This neighbor of yours intends to wear you down and take advantage that you are not there 24/7. I assume you do not have money for a "campaign" of cameras and fencing? Any level-headed buddies or family available to help watch the land? One thing that helped us get a hold on a trespass issue was the company I worked for went through the initial stages of closing it's regional office so I suddenly had much more time to walk our one parcel that had an issue. Fortunately the neighbors were not the type to want to escalate the conflict. Unfortunately, not everybody has that option and the poor job market here made that possible.
I hate to say selling the parcel may be the best plan for you but it may be the only way to deal with the trespass issue where you are concerned.
I hate to say selling the parcel may be the best plan for you but it may be the only way to deal with the trespass issue where you are concerned.
Funny thing here is the snowmobiler's tend to help to keep things orderly. I guess there are enough responsible riders locally to keep the yahoo's in check. A number of years ago one of our good neighbors told us about some fool that wanted to sue a landowner over some "supposed" injury but this person shot off his mouth where the snowmobiler's gather and they let this fool know in no uncertain terms just how far an outcast he would become if he went ahead with his suit.
It's kind of hard to put up with people on the property but the proximity to a couple of utility right-of-ways make near impossible to prevent. Fortunately during the warmer weather there a couple of swamps along the right-of-ways to discourage ATV's.
It's kind of hard to put up with people on the property but the proximity to a couple of utility right-of-ways make near impossible to prevent. Fortunately during the warmer weather there a couple of swamps along the right-of-ways to discourage ATV's.
](reply to post at 15:17:28 01/02/13)
Do you not have tresspass laws where all this is going on?
If you do the penalties must not be heavy enough. I'm not saying that tresspass doesn't happen in Texas but certainly not to the extent I hear about in posts here at YT.
A few examples of tresspass laws which make people think twice.
Land owner can file a complant outlineing evidence which in turn is shared with defendant. If it gos before JP,land owner has burden to prove who,when and where. If you get game warden,sheriff or other officer to witness or investigate,they present case with land owner as witness. Additional to fines and property damage,restitution for any deer,turkey or other wildlife starts at about $500 each and can reach as much as going price to legaly kill a trophy. 150 score whitetail average $5k, 180 score about 3 times as much.
Where it gets realy serious is being on someone elses property with a firearm at night without permission.
About once a year a snatch and run car repo man is shot or shot at while on private property at night.
The guns hanging on racks of farm trucks are one reason I advise against becoming confrontational with a Texas land owner if he asks you to leave and don't come back. I'm not saying it's like the old wild west. It's more like folks don't whine and sniffel because some knothead is trying to take his place over.
On the other hand the booby traps I hear mentioned on YT from time to time can land a person in deep doo doo.
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Do you not have tresspass laws where all this is going on?
If you do the penalties must not be heavy enough. I'm not saying that tresspass doesn't happen in Texas but certainly not to the extent I hear about in posts here at YT.
A few examples of tresspass laws which make people think twice.
Land owner can file a complant outlineing evidence which in turn is shared with defendant. If it gos before JP,land owner has burden to prove who,when and where. If you get game warden,sheriff or other officer to witness or investigate,they present case with land owner as witness. Additional to fines and property damage,restitution for any deer,turkey or other wildlife starts at about $500 each and can reach as much as going price to legaly kill a trophy. 150 score whitetail average $5k, 180 score about 3 times as much.
Where it gets realy serious is being on someone elses property with a firearm at night without permission.
About once a year a snatch and run car repo man is shot or shot at while on private property at night.
The guns hanging on racks of farm trucks are one reason I advise against becoming confrontational with a Texas land owner if he asks you to leave and don't come back. I'm not saying it's like the old wild west. It's more like folks don't whine and sniffel because some knothead is trying to take his place over.
On the other hand the booby traps I hear mentioned on YT from time to time can land a person in deep doo doo.
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You mentioned a good point above about maintaining a presence, which I forgot. That in itself changes the dynamics of these situations, but if a remote site, you work away, as I did, its amazing how they just take over. That leaves a problem for the owner, as they always do these things behind your back.
The snowmobile-rs do the same thing, have an organization, provide insurance, maintain trails/bridges etc., and thats fine where the trail system works, and just the same its a lot of fun no doubt. At this place I don't want them around, same as atv's, or anyone for that matter, since a theft occurred. Its that simple, always one in the crowd, you just can't trust people. Its well known here that that the owner feels that way LOL !
Powerline tracts are conduits for trouble, especially here, as its broken by a large pond, so they come off it onto my place, and we own on both sides of the powerlines. They can travel in from distances, you do not know who they are, I caught 6 in October from 15 miles away. Its illegal, NYS DMV 2403-3, 3A etc., but people think they have a right, then it terminates near my house, whereas I have the disturbances, nuisances and eventually a theft. The forestry/landowner rep states they will back you, but they do nothing to mitigate the problem, even when something like fencing, putting in old discarded post cut off's or just doing the right thing to place posts or obstacles where it makes sense, just seems to be an issue with these guys, thankfully I've never had to push it with them, however if the problem worsens, they will get a certified letter return receipt, detailing the situation and the ensuing problems created from illegal atv operation on their land, spilling onto ours.
According to my interpretation of the NY law, posted signs, afford you the reasonable expectation that people are to stay out, given, that, if someone does get injured, or similar, you are not liable, so I use barbed wired on property lines without hesitation, just like what was there for 100 years, use tire spikes, and as much as I'd love to clothesline someone or cause them to be violently dismounted, regardless of death or injury, I will NOT do that, then I am no better then they are.
The one thing is that in areas like these, landowners have it tough to keep a place private. Further east of here is an area of a bunch of backwoods dwellers, with a bad attitude towards any landowner, these people are mean, uneducated, seemingly worthless trouble makers for land owners, especially new ones, I'll refrain from the stereotype label, but I did experience this first hand, know some of them to see, or know the names, these are the ones you have to be real careful with, as they are relentless about doing as they please, where they please. Very difficult to avoid escalation. The do not ask permission, poach all year, and just don't care, as they believe they have rights to any land around them. It makes me glad to be where I am and away from those kinds of places.
The snowmobile-rs do the same thing, have an organization, provide insurance, maintain trails/bridges etc., and thats fine where the trail system works, and just the same its a lot of fun no doubt. At this place I don't want them around, same as atv's, or anyone for that matter, since a theft occurred. Its that simple, always one in the crowd, you just can't trust people. Its well known here that that the owner feels that way LOL !
Powerline tracts are conduits for trouble, especially here, as its broken by a large pond, so they come off it onto my place, and we own on both sides of the powerlines. They can travel in from distances, you do not know who they are, I caught 6 in October from 15 miles away. Its illegal, NYS DMV 2403-3, 3A etc., but people think they have a right, then it terminates near my house, whereas I have the disturbances, nuisances and eventually a theft. The forestry/landowner rep states they will back you, but they do nothing to mitigate the problem, even when something like fencing, putting in old discarded post cut off's or just doing the right thing to place posts or obstacles where it makes sense, just seems to be an issue with these guys, thankfully I've never had to push it with them, however if the problem worsens, they will get a certified letter return receipt, detailing the situation and the ensuing problems created from illegal atv operation on their land, spilling onto ours.
According to my interpretation of the NY law, posted signs, afford you the reasonable expectation that people are to stay out, given, that, if someone does get injured, or similar, you are not liable, so I use barbed wired on property lines without hesitation, just like what was there for 100 years, use tire spikes, and as much as I'd love to clothesline someone or cause them to be violently dismounted, regardless of death or injury, I will NOT do that, then I am no better then they are.
The one thing is that in areas like these, landowners have it tough to keep a place private. Further east of here is an area of a bunch of backwoods dwellers, with a bad attitude towards any landowner, these people are mean, uneducated, seemingly worthless trouble makers for land owners, especially new ones, I'll refrain from the stereotype label, but I did experience this first hand, know some of them to see, or know the names, these are the ones you have to be real careful with, as they are relentless about doing as they please, where they please. Very difficult to avoid escalation. The do not ask permission, poach all year, and just don't care, as they believe they have rights to any land around them. It makes me glad to be where I am and away from those kinds of places.
We do not have a formal snowmobiler organization here. Pretty much a group of people that tend to wind up at a local watering hole. We really would prefer to have no activity on our property but think there would be serious fallout if all of a sudden we got tough on them. As stated before this group of riders tends to include mostly the more respected neighbors whose largest problem is just making assumptions on just how public this trail is. I think for right now it is live and let live on this issue. The lawyers tend to believe there would be more headaches in setting up a designated trail because none of the local municipalities are interested in helping oversee it.
As much as I like the idea of tire spikes, I'm reminded of the story of the farmer whose watermelons were being stolen out of the field. He put up a sign that said, "One of these watermelons has been poisoned." The next day he came back to the field and there was a second sign: "Now two of these watermelons have been poisoned."
Point is, of course, that two can play the same game. And since it's your property, he can play the game a lot nastier than you can.
Point is, of course, that two can play the same game. And since it's your property, he can play the game a lot nastier than you can.
I think the first thing is to know what you can and can't do and by that I mean;
In Ohio, it is not trespass unless it is posted (either by sign or written notification to them).
Unless you can prove they are committing a crime, land owner “is” responsible for injury and possibly damage. Booby-traps are illegal and get “you” jail time.
You own to the center of the road with a permanent easement to the county/state in most cases, which extends well past the edge of the road generally. Blocking, building in, any part of it can get you in hot water.
I would post every 200-300’ all the way around the property. Drop a log across every trail you find and post it. Take pictures and setup a couple cheap game cameras. Can’t say the law would do anything but if you find tracks that lead somewhere (off the property), see if they will follow them out and speak to the neighbor.
We had a bunch here that loved to scold us if we even look towards the fence line and feel they have full right to hunt (drive deer off) all of ours. I gave up a day of hunting to set in the woods and took pictures with a very expensive camera and telephoto lenses. I got 6 different faces from two different trucks. Mailed a letter and photos to the owner (estate rep), and farmer stating if they couldn’t identify them I was forwarding it to the law. If they could, this was their notice to provide proper notice to any and all who they gave permission to be on their place where the property lines were and make sure they knew ours was posted. As next time I will just be calling the law. I got a response within 3 days. Every few years I have to show a new guy the property line but not near as bad as it was and do not get any attitude from them.
I should add, here in Ohio you cannot even track or retrieve, wounded / dead, deer without owner / agent permission. I walk that border every day I am out, but hunt far enough off it to keep anything I shoot from crossing it.
In Ohio, it is not trespass unless it is posted (either by sign or written notification to them).
Unless you can prove they are committing a crime, land owner “is” responsible for injury and possibly damage. Booby-traps are illegal and get “you” jail time.
You own to the center of the road with a permanent easement to the county/state in most cases, which extends well past the edge of the road generally. Blocking, building in, any part of it can get you in hot water.
I would post every 200-300’ all the way around the property. Drop a log across every trail you find and post it. Take pictures and setup a couple cheap game cameras. Can’t say the law would do anything but if you find tracks that lead somewhere (off the property), see if they will follow them out and speak to the neighbor.
We had a bunch here that loved to scold us if we even look towards the fence line and feel they have full right to hunt (drive deer off) all of ours. I gave up a day of hunting to set in the woods and took pictures with a very expensive camera and telephoto lenses. I got 6 different faces from two different trucks. Mailed a letter and photos to the owner (estate rep), and farmer stating if they couldn’t identify them I was forwarding it to the law. If they could, this was their notice to provide proper notice to any and all who they gave permission to be on their place where the property lines were and make sure they knew ours was posted. As next time I will just be calling the law. I got a response within 3 days. Every few years I have to show a new guy the property line but not near as bad as it was and do not get any attitude from them.
I should add, here in Ohio you cannot even track or retrieve, wounded / dead, deer without owner / agent permission. I walk that border every day I am out, but hunt far enough off it to keep anything I shoot from crossing it.
old
Well-known Member
- Location
- Camdenton Missouri
Ya know how it is and still in the middle of a battle in court over my rite of way to my land and so far not getting anywhere but costing a lot of $$$. Guy can not stop me but he can still be a pain in the back side. That all said one big thing you HAVE TO DO is post your land. No Trespass signs every 100 yards or so. As for the other guy and getting to his land that gets sticky. If he can prove he has had access for 10 plus years you can not stop him but if the gate has been there for 10 plus he has to open and close it. Sorry to say the only way to maybe win is in court. But if you have the signs up and you catch a person in the wrong place then you can have something done and in this state you sign papers so that if caught they go to jail no questions asked. Reason I know that is I have signed papers for just that
The situation varies quite a bit, depending on so many different factors and combinations of things, where I live, given the environment not so far away, and today's climate with the criminal element, its best to keep people out, and at a distance as much as possible. Its hard to justify wasting time on dealing with it, but if I ignored most or if not all of it, which I have done at times, it would literally be overrun, nuisances beyond tolerance and so on.
At another location, we have a field that has another set of transmission lines, like here, 115,000 lines, own on both sides, it passes thru on a corner, atv'ers, sleds, took down fences where livestock was pastured. The fix was to repair the fence, and reroute the trail, they can pass, its not a nuisance, no reason to come into the place, nothing to worry about.
At home, its more of a preventative maintenance, too close and too easy for someone to come right out of the thicket, woods, right to my back door without being seen, the less knowledge they have or could gain about the lay of the land nearby, the better.
A lot of people from around here head to tug hill, with sleds, bar hopping, they do the same locally, hard to say how safe that is if a person ties one on. There's one local guy here, comes through on a sled, with a no restriction pipe or open header and its unbelievably loud at 2AM, compared to a stock sled, he gets to the bottom field and just lays in on it all the way across 7 acres or so, wakes up the neighborhood. Or, you get a whole convoy of them, so nice when you have to get up for work in a few hours and get woke up at all hours of the night. I do remember before all these were around, all the fields were fenced in locust post and barbed wire, only thing that made tracks in the dirt was tractors.
At another location, we have a field that has another set of transmission lines, like here, 115,000 lines, own on both sides, it passes thru on a corner, atv'ers, sleds, took down fences where livestock was pastured. The fix was to repair the fence, and reroute the trail, they can pass, its not a nuisance, no reason to come into the place, nothing to worry about.
At home, its more of a preventative maintenance, too close and too easy for someone to come right out of the thicket, woods, right to my back door without being seen, the less knowledge they have or could gain about the lay of the land nearby, the better.
A lot of people from around here head to tug hill, with sleds, bar hopping, they do the same locally, hard to say how safe that is if a person ties one on. There's one local guy here, comes through on a sled, with a no restriction pipe or open header and its unbelievably loud at 2AM, compared to a stock sled, he gets to the bottom field and just lays in on it all the way across 7 acres or so, wakes up the neighborhood. Or, you get a whole convoy of them, so nice when you have to get up for work in a few hours and get woke up at all hours of the night. I do remember before all these were around, all the fields were fenced in locust post and barbed wire, only thing that made tracks in the dirt was tractors.
Traditional Farmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- Virginia
In my state you can get a "No Trespass" notice that will be delivered to the person its directed at by the Sheriff and the Sheriff will explain to them in person if they are caught on your property they will be charged with Criminal Trespass which will mean a fine and maybe jail term supended and a criminal record, 2nd time they'll get jail time.BTW You don't have to prove a person has been on your property to get a No Trespass notice as it just says they can't come
on your property.
on your property.
I wish there was a painless way to shut it off 100 percent but there is not. I guess I should feel good because we have nipped ATV's from riding the same "trail" completely and historically the ATV's bring the troublemakers here, anyways. One aspect that makes it hard is back 40 years ago when sleds first became very popular the rural community here was much smaller and everybody pretty much knew everybody else. It was not a big deal to let a few neighbors ride along the edge of the field. The problem is that the small group brings others in and other people yet note the existence of the trail from further away where the trails cross roads people are driving down. People just could not see the problems that were to arise as time went by from the early 1970's on. It did not help that one drinking spot gradually got to be a spot for drug dealing. During the height of that there would be many dozens of sleds to go by on a Saturday night. Thankfully that place went bust and I would say there are maybe twenty sleds at the most that go by on a Friday or Saturday evening now.
1370pwr in ne
Member
what is the reason that the farmer can't get to his 5 acres from his side? I would be careful letting him cross your property to get to his,a tempary easement could turn into a permanent easement. If it were mine i would put in a 2 or 3 barbed wire fence around your property with NO TRESPASSING signs every 100 foot. make sure to get the fence right on the property line.just my 2 cents!keep the sherif's department informed and hopefully they can stop this.
I have a no trespassing sign posted at the main entrance to the farm. In Ilinois that's all that's needed.
He can get to his 5 acres from the rest of his farm. He just thinks that being he owns property there, he has the right to go on and do anything on everyone else's ground. People on the other side of his ground have the same problem with him.
Sheriff has been called in every time so there has been a report made and on file. They're talking with the DA about filing charges.
We'll see
As far as the game cameras. They keep disappearing. I'm building steel security boxes to put them in They'll be welded to steel post set in concrete
He can get to his 5 acres from the rest of his farm. He just thinks that being he owns property there, he has the right to go on and do anything on everyone else's ground. People on the other side of his ground have the same problem with him.
Sheriff has been called in every time so there has been a report made and on file. They're talking with the DA about filing charges.
We'll see
As far as the game cameras. They keep disappearing. I'm building steel security boxes to put them in They'll be welded to steel post set in concrete
I've had this discussion many times, and what you said often comes up. The law is seemingly clear on this in NY. It states by virtue of having posted signs conspicuously posted, that an owner has reasonable expectation that people will obey the sign, and stay out.
Now, lets say for example that at my place, atv's come in, do as they wish, cut fences, create disturbances like has been done right smack while I am sitting in my favorite stand. Lets say they steal one of the stands, can't get my favorite one as its pipe scaffold LOL !
The reaction of law enforcement is literally nothing, they don't want to deal with it and will try and talk you out of pursuing it on the phone, once you have someone ID'd. I did this exact thing, had a real problem with a neighbor, adverse possession and all the rest. They got the point several ways. Just under 2 years later, I catch his daughter red handed, with 2 young males in my field on dirtbikes, positively ID them, call the state police and he wants to talk me out of the violation charge and whatever else which would have ended up in family court given the age. Ok, I said, but these people are a persistant nuisance, and I want it on the record, this is the only way to do that, they don't take note of anything unless its official, ok, understood, she was let go, mouthy little POS to me in that field, in all the years I've caught kids, she was one of the worst, by attitude, most if not all the other kids are actually cool about understanding its private land and the owner does want it left that way. Around the same time, someone stole an expensive stand, stole everyones on surrounding lands, + cameras etc. The boys in gray just do not want to deal with this, I had 30+ on atv's come through my field, went illegally onto the NYS road and down it in broad daylight. Call the police, and its like well, are you sure, this and that, he tries to turn my words against me, I had all I could do to remain calm, ok I said, in short I just wanted you guys to know they came in 1000 yds, clearly trespassing on my land, the power companies land and illegally operating on a busy/dangerous 2 lane road, that included very young kids on these little atv's, well he sent a trooper to the house, I made him aware verbally and stated in your travels/patrol in the area, be aware of them as they will be crossing other roads, nice friendly young man and thanked him but that was it.
Given the above, given the current laws, and the attitude by law enforcement, its clear these laws are rarely enforced and not taken seriously.
A landowner does not have the legal mobility to do much, the trespasser, the atv rider/operator pays no attention to posted signs, plays dumb and uses same in their favor by challenging landowners by illegally trespassing.
With all that in mind, + another given, land taxes that are a mortgage alone, I think a landowner is prudent in the defense of his/her privacy, even if it means walking the thin line of the law, including the use of tire spikes, to stop them, ID them and provide time for the law to react when a trespasser is caught on a atv and cannot go anywhere. I would challenge this in court, no judge is going to recognize an illegal atv operator's claim of tire damage when a place is clearly posted, how does that work, oh, sir I hit your tire spikes while illegally operating my atv on your land that is clearly posted. LOL makes no sense !
A landowner wants to take it one step further, makes a citizen arrest, you're going to end up in court, because the police do not want you doing there job, and it states that you can but mostly when a felony crime is witnessed and the perpetrator is going to escape, that might stand, but do it on something lesser, better have that attorney on call, you could win, but its likely more trouble than its worth, so the previous, seems to be a better tactic, the law is clear on it, augmented by police being called to the scene because the person is stopped and you did not have to lay a hand on them or cause any harm.
Booby traps are anti personnel devices, we are not talking about setting up traps to cause physical harm to an unsuspecting trespasser. Again, with those signs, I firmly believe you cannot be held liable, they were clearly warned by the signs and my place is plastered with them, bright orange, signed in yellow paint marker like you use to mark parts.
Now, lets say for example that at my place, atv's come in, do as they wish, cut fences, create disturbances like has been done right smack while I am sitting in my favorite stand. Lets say they steal one of the stands, can't get my favorite one as its pipe scaffold LOL !
The reaction of law enforcement is literally nothing, they don't want to deal with it and will try and talk you out of pursuing it on the phone, once you have someone ID'd. I did this exact thing, had a real problem with a neighbor, adverse possession and all the rest. They got the point several ways. Just under 2 years later, I catch his daughter red handed, with 2 young males in my field on dirtbikes, positively ID them, call the state police and he wants to talk me out of the violation charge and whatever else which would have ended up in family court given the age. Ok, I said, but these people are a persistant nuisance, and I want it on the record, this is the only way to do that, they don't take note of anything unless its official, ok, understood, she was let go, mouthy little POS to me in that field, in all the years I've caught kids, she was one of the worst, by attitude, most if not all the other kids are actually cool about understanding its private land and the owner does want it left that way. Around the same time, someone stole an expensive stand, stole everyones on surrounding lands, + cameras etc. The boys in gray just do not want to deal with this, I had 30+ on atv's come through my field, went illegally onto the NYS road and down it in broad daylight. Call the police, and its like well, are you sure, this and that, he tries to turn my words against me, I had all I could do to remain calm, ok I said, in short I just wanted you guys to know they came in 1000 yds, clearly trespassing on my land, the power companies land and illegally operating on a busy/dangerous 2 lane road, that included very young kids on these little atv's, well he sent a trooper to the house, I made him aware verbally and stated in your travels/patrol in the area, be aware of them as they will be crossing other roads, nice friendly young man and thanked him but that was it.
Given the above, given the current laws, and the attitude by law enforcement, its clear these laws are rarely enforced and not taken seriously.
A landowner does not have the legal mobility to do much, the trespasser, the atv rider/operator pays no attention to posted signs, plays dumb and uses same in their favor by challenging landowners by illegally trespassing.
With all that in mind, + another given, land taxes that are a mortgage alone, I think a landowner is prudent in the defense of his/her privacy, even if it means walking the thin line of the law, including the use of tire spikes, to stop them, ID them and provide time for the law to react when a trespasser is caught on a atv and cannot go anywhere. I would challenge this in court, no judge is going to recognize an illegal atv operator's claim of tire damage when a place is clearly posted, how does that work, oh, sir I hit your tire spikes while illegally operating my atv on your land that is clearly posted. LOL makes no sense !
A landowner wants to take it one step further, makes a citizen arrest, you're going to end up in court, because the police do not want you doing there job, and it states that you can but mostly when a felony crime is witnessed and the perpetrator is going to escape, that might stand, but do it on something lesser, better have that attorney on call, you could win, but its likely more trouble than its worth, so the previous, seems to be a better tactic, the law is clear on it, augmented by police being called to the scene because the person is stopped and you did not have to lay a hand on them or cause any harm.
Booby traps are anti personnel devices, we are not talking about setting up traps to cause physical harm to an unsuspecting trespasser. Again, with those signs, I firmly believe you cannot be held liable, they were clearly warned by the signs and my place is plastered with them, bright orange, signed in yellow paint marker like you use to mark parts.
Good post. You summed up the legal aspect very well. Law enforcement here will be a little more active during hunting season due to the safety aspect. Outside of hunting season if we have a problem law enforcement will be more active if we can point out a safety issue like you did with the kids riding ATV's in the road. We also have come to learn that they also take interest if mud is left on the road. They most likely had motorist complaints about that. It's not always going to happen but sometimes an angle will present itself as to working local law enforcement for the land owner's benefit.
just another old geezer
Member
I hope you have the serial numbers of the cams that keep disappearing, if they are somehow "found" later you can prove they are yours
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