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The rights of the owner during auction

F

Fritz Maurer

Well-known Member
I went to a farm auction recently where the owner took a beating. Got a rusty old baler I needed for parts, and was there the next day to pick it up. The former owner was helping me hook it up, and during some chit-chat he opens the twine box and sees that it's half full of Craftsman tools. His pleasantness evaporated and he began unloading the tools. He looked up at me and said,"You didn't pay enough for this baler to get all my tools". I always wonder if I should have let him take the stuff. It WAS on the baler at the time of the sale, but... it wasn't necessarily part of the baler.
 
well the auctioneer sold the baler and did say "sold" and didnt sell on anything on choice so they are yours. and nobody advised him there was tools in it that they wanted separate. farmer ow's you some tools.
 
I guess it would depend on some things. If you knew they were there when you were bidding I would think you should have gotten them, and if I was the owner I would let them go anyway rather than risk being in the wrong. I hate to leave things at an auction site in case they walk away.
Zach
 
Rights or no rights, why didn't he look it over before the sale? Yes, he probably had a bunch (or all) of the stuff, but you have to make sure you aren't making mistakes. If there were tools there then they became the toolkit for the baler as soon as the hammer fell.

If I sell something from around here they get what it leaves with. If I am not prepared enough to double check tool boxes and things then they get what it sells with. I guess maybe I am more willing than others to take blame, but it is my job to be ready.

Maybe he was distraught to have to sell things. Maybe someone else helped him get it all ready. Doesn't matter - his part happened before the sale not nosing around after it. All that said, I would have given him the tools.
 
The tools since they where in/on the baler should be yours but to do much about it would be hard. You would have to go to the guy who did the auction then have him talk to the guy and then maybe the sheriff but by the time you did that you might be out lot of time and fuel plus have some body mad at you and maybe his family and even then you probably would not get any where because the cops would say it was a civil matter
 
I've bought a lot of tractors and equipment over the years at farm auctions.I can't tell you the number of times the owner or auctioneer has come up to me asking for something left on the tractor or in the tool box.I always let them have whatever it is.
 
The rights of the owner are clear, and after the auctioneer said 'sold' you were the owner of the baler and the tools.

The previous owner stole the tools from you.

Now, how to handle that, I understand.

But, the tools would have been, legally are, yours.

Paul
 
I got the best on John Stamm on one of his sales that way one time. Had it home before he realized what was in what I bought. Told him I had a reciept that said As Is.
 
Did you buy it "as-is? The tools are yours. Of course, I'm not an attorney.......just call me Billy Bob 'n' Bubba.
 
AS a strict matter of LAW once you bought the item,,,,,,, there wasnt any notice of reserve,,,,,,, and the hammer fell and they said SOLD IT WAS ALL YOURS.

That being said no use calling the Sheriff after the fact its NOT their problem, theyre not touching it.......

Also once you acquiesced and let the prior owner take it back, its sure NOTTTTTTTT any case (its a LOSER) Id take on your part unless you want to spend big bucks to litigate AFTER I tell you that youre likely gonna loose lol

I made a living buying and selling at auctions near nationwide for yearsssssssss and learned the hard way once the hammer fell gather it up and "take" posession and pay for it ASAP, get a receipt, then get outa there lol

John T Attorney at Law
 
Based on what you said, I think the tools were yours, but I don't think I would have wanted a fist fight over them, at least not at my age. My question is why - "he opens the twine box and sees that it's half full of Craftsman tools" - was the twine box half full of Craftsman tools? The twine box on my baler is not half full of tools. . .
 
If your bid was based on the tools being with the equipment, then you should have taken them with you at the time of sale. If you were not aware of the tools being in there, the "right" thing to do is walk away and figure you got what you bid on. (not necessarily the legal, but the right way.)

Legally, they are yours - enforcing that at this point would be very difficult and not worth the hassle.
 
Well legally you bought the baler and all the contents. I want to ask you this though: Did you buy a baler or a big tool box full of tools??? Look at your intent.

So if I had been there with the baler I would have helped the old fellow out getting his tools back. Think about how things get hectic when getting stuff ready for an auction? He may have just forgotten that they where in there.

Plus want is a half a set of Craftsman tools really worth??? A full set can be boughten used on Ebay for a few dollars.

I guess I am not the type that has to get every last cent out of a deal to be happy.

There is always "legal" and then there is moral. You have to decide which way this falls using your personal values.
 
Fritz, Technically the tools were yours. The owner should have gone over every item in the sale to make sure there was nothing going out that wasn't suppose to. But if this guy was a neighbor, someone you sit in church with, serve on civic committees then you may have done right by letting him have them. I wouldn't have let him unload the twine box first off, But that may have required a Fist fight too, but a Call to the Auctioneer would have settled it in 5 min.
Maybe live by this...If he can Live with it, You can live with out it!
Later,
John A.
 
The tools were yours for sure and things like happened to you is why after I buy a piece of equipment or tractor especialy if I'm going to come back and pick it up later I go over the item and pull off anything like hitch pins,top links,slide out drawbars,hanging weights and espeically new batteries and take them with me.
A few years ago I was at a farm auction and they sold the contents to a building and the buyer could take or leave anything in the building.I was the top bidder and had seen the mounting brackets to a loader that was that was to be sold later at the auction in the building so I went and loaded up the brackets and other suff and then even went and paid for them.When the loader came up it was sold no mention of the brackets but the loader buyer asked the owner and the auctioneer about the brackets after the sale the owner said they were in the building,I was standing there and said They WERE in the building but I bought them earlier we had quite a discussion but since they were on my truck and I had a receipt it wasn't much they could do but cry about it.Finally the owner and the loader buyer bought the brackets from me.Like I told them it pays to pay attention at auctions
 
your first statement is very telling he took a beating is that your opinion if so to overlook the matter is the right thing to do no need to rub salt in an open wound what goes around comes around and the tools were a cream on top of the deal as for the law the others are right they were yours
 
We should always do the right thing and that would be to give him the tools. You didn't buy the tools, you bought the bailer. Enough said!
 
Reminds me of the time my Dad bought a used car at a local dealership. Part of the deal was that we were to bring the car back in for a tuneup in a few days.

I took the car back to the dealer and they put it in the garage. I was standing in the service aisle talking to the dealer when the previous owner came in and said: "I forgot to take the trailer hitch off of the bumper". The dealer got a funny look on his face, wondering how he was going to resolve that.

I didn't say anything; I just walked over to the car, took some wrenches out of the trunk and handed them to the previous owner and told him to take it off. The dealer breathed a sigh of relief and the previous owner smiled. Of course, I didn't tell them that Dad didn't like trailer hitches on a car and had commented that we needed to take it off - and I knew that he'd never use it for anything else. Anyway, I scored a lot of points with the dealer, who didn't want to end up in the middle of a conflict.

In this case, I wouldn't have known about the tools when I bought them, so I would have readily helped the previous owner remove the tools. He has a right to "forget" just like the rest of us.
 
I brought 1/2 of a pto shaft for 5 bucks off the jewelry wagon a while back.
Later in the sale they were selling a piece of equipment and said they could not find the front half of the pto shaft. I looked at it and could see the shaft I brought earlier went to it. I told them I had it and would get it out of my truck and give it back. I did say I want the 5 dollars taken off my number. I felt I did the right thing and would hope the result would be the same if the shoe was on the other foot.
 
Like another said, you didn"t buy the baler and tools, you bought the baler. It"d take a real as$ to take those tools from him.
 
I didn't know the tools were in there, the twine boxes were not what I was interested in. Also, there was not half a Proto rollaway in there, but given the cost of a 1/2" ratchet today, I'd guess there to be about 100.00 worth of tools in there. I didn't know what to do so I let him have them.
 
There is always an off chance someone else at the auction put the tools in there hoping to get them with the baler ?
I see lots of stuff out of place at auctions. The auction helpers just box it and put it in a row. They don't know or care what it is to.
A few times I have went to the auctioneer before the sale started and pointed out some things that should go as part of other things and sometimes they combine them together.
One time I spoted the owners manual for a JD R that was at the sale in a box of junk and told the auctioneer about it. I guess I always figured the buyer of the tractor should get the owners manual with it ? Well this auctioneer sold it seperatly !
 
If the tools were in a twine box they weren't tools he needed everyday but all of a sudden they became valuable when he found them.They belonged to you but you did the right thing by letting him take them even though he didn't have solid proof they were his tools if you backed him in a corner. You are sometimes better off being a gentleman and letting it go. Jim
 
Takes a real azz owner to make the comment he did. I think you did the right thing but he could have handled it more tactfully.
 
Seems like a lot of folks would be against you on this, but that is how an auction is, those are the rules, buyer and seller agrees to them, auction is pointless if we don't follow the rules and just feel we can steal anything back that was sold.

I've gotten good deals at auctions by buying a few pieces off the hay rack of junk, and then buying the item they belong to out on the line - cheaper because its missing stuff. That option is open to anyone, and how an auction is run. Period. If you don't like those rules, then don't be buying at an auction or selling at one.


A friend of mine said he knew a friend with a grain truck for sale, good truck, good deal. Looked it over, seemed a little under powered, but was told its ok. Agreed toa price, shook hands.

Then my 'friend' goes and unloads tools and parts from the cab, for his other friend to keep.

Never done business like that before, but kinda stuck so didn't say much.

Got the truck home, had mechanic look it over, and has 2 bad cylinders, poor compression between them. My fault for not looking into it and buying as is. Certainly on me.

But neither my 'friend' nor the former truck owner offered to back up their word the truck was good, nor offered to give me back the tools and parts I bought with the truck......

Screwiest deal I was ever in.

When something is sold, its sold, as is. No taking back after you agree to it. I'm not really mad about the bad engine, what bugs me is stealing the stuff out of the cab after we agreed on it.

Paul
 
I would have done the same thing that you did and let him keep his tools.
One other question though....Do you think he remembered that he had put the tools in there, or do you think he thought that you loaded the tools up when nobody was looking and he thought you intended to steal them from him? I would have at least explained that you didn't know they were in there.
 
I'd suspect someone else slipped the tools into the twine box, figuring to get a bonus if they bought the baler. And you did the right thing by giving them back.

It's amazing what people will do. A number of years ago, my wife and I had some cut glass and collectible dishes on an auction. I caught a lady putting a vase worth several hundred dollars in a box of junk. She obviously expected to buy the box for a few dollars.

I'd put the vase back where it belonged, and a few minutes later it would be back in the box of junk. So I waited until the auctioneer was just an item or two away and put the vase back where it belonged so it sold separately.

Same auction, a fellow bought a cut glass pitcher for $385, then claimed he could see a flaw in it and wanted the price reduced. The auctioneer took it away from him and told the clerk to write it down as a no sale. The auctioneer said, "I've had trouble with that SOB before, buying a high dollar dish and then claiming he could see a flaw in it to try to get the price reduced".

Whatever became of honesty?
 
Twine box is a "normal" place to store tools??
Appears an oversight was made on his part.. Honest mistake...He sounded rather upset when he learned of this mistake, and his choice of wordly expression was rather crude...However... Buyer, seller, and auction staff should have all looked over the equipment prior to sale????

You did the proper thing...We all make mistakes...This time it was his turn.....

Legal??? Some people can take that word; and turn it into one of the filthiest slang words that have ever been spoken.

Thanks for doing what was proper..and not taking advantage of him..
 
Paul Tell me where I am wrong here, For I have re read the responses here, Either direction he takes, He is well within his right, By either letting the old owner keep the tools or going to Fist City to follow the letter of the auction contractit, It is Totally the new owners decision! Which ever avenue he go down.
Your last sentence above says it all!!! A THEFT occured after the item was Sold! the old Owner Stole,Kyped,Ten Fingered Discounted... the items out of the Truck....Baler with the new owner present or not!
Later,
John A.
 
What goes around comes around. Yes they should be your tools but you did the right thing in my opinion. There are people out there looking to cash in on someones misfortune by hiding stuff or taking it.
 

You did the right thing for the situation if the details were a little different one might be in the right to insist on keeping the tools. Morality should always nnalert the law provided that it doesn't involve breaking a law.
 
mb..........I agree; giving him the tools may have been the 'honorable' thing to do, but at what point did the seller/consigner give up his rights to the stuff he'd sold; after one day, a week, a year? Sounds like a jerk to me.
 
Back in '91, when I bought my farm, there was an old IH swather in the machine shed. I was going to junk it but I advertised it in the paper for a couple weeks. Sure enough a neighbor wanted to buy it but wanted it to sit in the shed until spring. I said okay, pay me for it and I will. He hemmed and hawed a little and said he would be back next week. Spring comes, he didn't come back, I junked the swather.

A$$hole was spreading rumors around for a couple years that I junked his swather! He has quite a reputation in the area, people laugh behind his back and have a million stories of him pulling this crap.
 
You said rusty old baler. Does that mean the tools were in the twine box for years? Before letting him have the tools I would of reminded him what the auctioneer said at the start of the sale. All sales are final. I would of made him get in a very nice mood before he got the tools. I think you had him over a barrel if you wanted too.
 
The item or lot description didn't say tools, someone could have just as easily taken them out of another lot and hid them in there to try to get them.

I go to a fair number of non-farm auctions and folks are dirty. I've been to a bankruptcy auction and a number of the unsecured creditors have been a bit greasy too as they are not likely to get paid.
 
the hard one is when the guy sells a running tractor or combine , and auctioneer annouces the battery does not go ...once bought a tray of 5 dollar stuff ,, and found a sheild that belonged to a grinder mixer as the container ..feed grinder was sold ,after emptying my goodies in my truck,without a word to anyone ,. i placed the sheild on the feed grinder near its spot it belonged//
 
In the event when you were hooking up to the baler you discovered the parts you were wanting off the baler were not usable, do you think the former owner would have reimbursed you part of the purchase price of the baler?? I don't think so.

I believe that when the gavel hit the table and the auctioneer said sold, those wrenches belonged to you, the high bidder.

The seller sounds like what I call a baby trader, as long as he is coming out the winner that is the way to go, but let the rolls be reversed and you will see exactly what happened with the wrenches.
 
(quoted from post at 16:58:03 01/02/13) I went to a farm auction recently where the owner took a beating. Got a rusty old baler I needed for parts, and was there the next day to pick it up. The former owner was helping me hook it up, and during some chit-chat he opens the twine box and sees that it's half full of Craftsman tools. [b:bb80876884]His pleasantness evaporated and he began unloading the tools. [/b:bb80876884]He looked up at me and said,"You didn't pay enough for this baler to get all my tools". I always wonder if I should have let him take the stuff. It WAS on the baler at the time of the sale, but... it wasn't necessarily part of the baler.
Click to expand...

Legally the tools were yours. The only possible exception I can think of is if someone at the sale had stashed them there. Judging by his response, he must have thought you had done it. He handled it very badly. If someone had indeed stashed the tools there hoping to get them with the baler or possibly hoping to steal them later, the seller should have said someone must of stashed his tools there and asked how you thought the situation should be handled.
 
It was in the baler... it was yours. Now... if he just forgot the stuff and left it in the baler and I hadn't noticed it there before buying it... I'd probably not feel bad about leting him take the stuff IF HE ASKED. Since he didn't I'd more than likely tell him 'sucks to be you'...
I leave some basics in the baler all the time too... but I'd be damn sure to remove it before it went to auction.

Rod
 
I have to laugh. He neglected to look in the box the day before he sold it and was later surprised to find the tools. You neglected to look in the box the day before when you bought it and was later surprised to find the tools. Sounds like you both screwed up. Now your in a catch 22 over who is the proper owner.

People need to remember that mans law is not always the same as Gods law. Whats "legal" and whats "moral" are often two different things. Look at abortion as an obvious example. I'm glad you did the moral thing, even if he wasn't very nice about it. You know in your heart he didn't intend to sell his tools. Most the time when someone has to ask the question on something like this, they aleady know the answer, they're just looking for justification or a loophole for getting ahead on someone without feeling guilty.
 
It's funny how folks look at this stuff differently.

I couldn't live with myself if I took the tools back out of the baler after it sold, or if I asked for the loader brackets for free after I bought the incomplete loader - that just seems so totally immoral to me.

It's sure nice we all kinda work it out and let things slide. And the fella that sold the pto shaft back at cost - that's cool, class act, hope I do the same of the oppertunity presents itself. Lot of good here and I recognise that, hope to live up to that.

In my case with the truck, I got an old International truck sitting in my shed from 2 years ago with a bad engine. Doesn't bother me that I bought something that isn't working, I messed up. I don't really expect people to represent things totally honest - lets say it's up to me the buyer to find the flaws, not for the seller to hand me a 10 page list of flaws.... I'm a buyer beware person and I was the buyer. So no big deal.

To this day, still bugs me that a few minor tools and stuff was taken out of the cab after I bought it. That seems immoral to me.

Probably sounds odd to others, but that is how I think. :)

--->Paul
 
(quoted from post at 19:17:38 01/02/13) There is always an off chance someone else at the auction put the tools in there hoping to get them with the baler ? I see lots of stuff out of place at auctions. The auction helpers just box it and put it in a row. They don't know or care what it is to.
Click to expand...

When we used to do a lot of buying at antique auctions we'd have to be very careful about watching box lots if they had something in there we wanted, to be sure it stayed in there and didn't get switched. Found a rare Egg Brand Baking Soda biscuit cutter (tin, egg shaped handle) in a box of otherwise trash. I parked myself next to it until I bought the box. Took the cutter out and gave the rest of the box to the under bidder. Got a bargain on a rare piece and helped someone out.
 
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