OT---Echo Chainsaw Problem???

Jiles · Jan 1, 2013

I have worked on small engines for over 50 years and have never seen an engine, of any type, that I could not get running----until now!!!
As many of you are aware, major changes and improvements have been accomplished with ignition systems.
That's where I think my problem is.
The chainsaw is a CS330t that was given to me by a friend. He knew nothing of the history. and the saw is in above average condition.
Here's the situation---
Compresson is 160#
Ignition spark will jump 1/4"--STRONG
Carburetor is new and getting fuel. No different then the Original that I rebuilt.
Crank seals passed test.

This is the FIRST engine I have ever seen that will not make the first effort to start!!! Not even a "fart"!!!!! Not even with different volumes of starting fluid.
This absoluteny makes no sense and I strongly believe it is in the ignition.
I guess I would like a little education about how these new coils work and what controls the Ignition Before Top Dead Center?

Billy Shafer · Jan 1, 2013

Are the magnets on the flywheel still good.

Matt_In · Jan 1, 2013

I had a Sthil saw at work that wouldn't start. I took it in they said the engine was scored and had no compression and I should just buy a new one. I said that's ok. I took it back to the shop. I took the cover off and the flywheel key was sheered. I bought a new flywheel and it fired right up. (Flywheel and key were all one part) I thought it was odd when they offered to just keep the saw...

BOB HAWBECKER · Jan 1, 2013

good one Matt

always check sheared keyway

Walt Davies · Jan 1, 2013

If all is as you say then the only thing left would be the spark
plug. Can you test it under compression. Some good testers
will do that a spark plug that will work without compression
may not work under compression.
Walt

Jiles · Jan 1, 2013

(quoted from post at 20:21:17 01/01/13) If all is as you say then the only thing left would be the spark
plug. Can you test it under compression. Some good testers
will do that a spark plug that will work without compression
may not work under compression.
Walt

I have tried THREE new sparkplugs and and TWO known good plugs. yes flywheel key has been checked.
A new coil is close to $50 and I have not found a used one to try.
New coil would not be a problem if I knew for sure it would fix it.

AzPeapicker · Jan 1, 2013

Does it have a Insulator block or rubber tube between the carb & the Engine block ? I have had them go bad .

John

Jiles · Jan 1, 2013

(quoted from post at 20:37:59 01/01/13) Does it have a Insulator block or rubber tube between the carb & the Engine block ? I have had them go bad .

John

Yes--been checked and double checked.
From my experience, engine should at least fire with carb removed, with a shot of starting fluid.

I might add that I have discovered that if a "newer" engine hasn't been run in a while, these eloctronic coils can DIE.
You can lubricate the cylinder, remove the sparkplug, and spin the engine over with an electric drill and the coil will sometimes be "reserected".
Even tried this with this saw.

guido · Jan 1, 2013

Hello Jiles,
Mi guess is that the engine timing is beeing affected somehow. Wear on the piston pin or the cranks pin bushings-bearings would cause late engine timing and no fire. Againg that is my guess. Certainly would like to know if you get it going! You can try advancing the timing at the flywheel and see if it comes to life. Just take the key off and advance it a bit. Assemble without the key and see what happens. The flywheel will not turn on the crank! Just get it properly tighten. Some thing to try anyhow....
Guido.

Jiles · Jan 1, 2013

(quoted from post at 22:30:23 01/01/13) Hello Jiles,
Mi guess is that the engine timing is beeing affected somehow. Wear on the piston pin or the cranks pin bushings-bearings would cause late engine timing and no fire. Againg that is my guess. Certainly would like to know if you get it going! You can try advancing the timing at the flywheel and see if it comes to life. Just take the key off and advance it a bit. Assemble without the key and see what happens. The flywheel will not turn on the crank! Just get it properly tighten. Some thing to try anyhow....
Guido.

I thought about changing the flywheel position---even marked the flywheel in relation to the piston position--but with electronic ignition, WHAT TRIGGERS IGNITION??
I have done extensive searching for an answer and all I have discovered is that the coil module has a chip and at the proper position of the flywheel, ignition is triggered, after the magnents energise the coil.
I think I will just shelf the saw until I find a coil, or breakdown and pay for a new one.
I have never give up on any engine problem and I will get it running and I ALWAYS respond with my findings!!

Bret4207 · Jan 1, 2013

Start with the simple stuff- is the muffler screen plugged? If they can't exhaust the charge they'll do just what you describe. I've had at least a dozen weed whackers do that.

The 330 is a pretty nice little saw. I've worked on a couple. IIRC that model has a boot that goes between the carb and jug. If that's torn or has a hole in it you won't get it to fire much. Bad part with that is that you have to buy a big assy to get the boot, it's not offered separately that I've seen.

It's possible it's off time, but that's a pretty rare thing IME. On an electronic ignition, as I understand it, the spark is triggered by the magnets as they pass by. There's an Ebay auction for a coil for about $20.00 on right now. Just enter Echo 330t, it's about halfway down the page. Theres also a flywheel and what is supposed to be that boot I spoke of, but it looks wrong.

ETA- I missed the post where you said the boot was okay. Check the muffler screen.

Hal/Eastern WA · Jan 1, 2013

Will it fire with a spray of starting fluid? If it does, your ignition is probably OK, and there may be something wrong in the fuel system.

I have had small engines that had not been started for a long time not start for me. Once I have established that there is spark and the plug is OK, I try a little puff of ether on the air cleaner element and try to start it again. The engine will often at least fire with the ether, and sometimes the vacuum of the firing engine will cause whatever was wrong in the fuel system to move. Many times I have had engines start and keep running.

It only takes a little...Good luck!

Indiana Ken · Jan 1, 2013

If I read all the posts correctly it has good spark when tested outside the cylinder but will not fire when attempting to actually start it. I had a Lawnboy mower years back that was getting the best of me. What I found was the coil insulation had broken down/cracked and the spark was jumping to ground without firing the plug.

To test, remove the engine covers to be able to view the coil and spark plug wire. Then turn out the lights and attempt to start the saw. Any spark jumping to ground will be visible.

Note: the voltage to jump the spark plug gap is increased due to engine compression as compared to the voltage required to jump a gap outside of the engine without compression pressure. In my case the spark would jump a gap with a "snap" when I tested it outside the engine. When I installed the wire onto the plug the spark would jump through the coil insulation to ground.

Just a thought...good luck.

guido · Jan 1, 2013

Hello jiles,
Before you give up on the module, take some time and gap it. I would gap the module at least .012.
I would use steel gauges, copper one have a tendency to squize and a .010 is usually a .009 or less. I had one echo weed wacker that was hard to start. New piston carb kit new plug mag gapped at true .010. Would run and star pretty good, but bog down at full throttle. Gapped the mag at .011, and got much better,gapped it at.012..................boy did she come to life.The magnets in the flywheel is what triggers the spark. They are not the problem with the proper spark. Even if the magnets part of the flywheel is full of rust, it would not change the intensity of the spark. You got good ignition, most mags won't jump 1/4" only 3/16.
I still think you have a sloppy bearing at either rod end.
Guido.

Bret4207 · Jan 2, 2013

Guidos idea of a bad crank bearing is a possibility that could alter the spark produced under compression. there should be no discernible play in the flywheel when you grab it and attempt to move it sideways.

I'm still wondering if the muffler screen is plugged. A new looking saw that won't start? It's always either fuel or plugged exhaust. You say it won't pop on ether, then it's likely exhaust out of the list of common issues.

OT---Echo Chainsaw Problem???

Jiles

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Billy Shafer

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Matt_In

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BOB HAWBECKER

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Walt Davies

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Jiles

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AzPeapicker

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Jiles

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guido

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Jiles

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Bret4207

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Hal/Eastern WA

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Indiana Ken

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guido

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Bret4207

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