Gentlemen: I am considering trying to find a used 2009-2012 GMC (or Chevy) with the Duramax/Allison combination. Please do not tell the better half!! Is there one year to avoid for potential bugs or problems? Anyone know the rear axle ratios available? What kind of fuel mileage can one expect? For the most part it will an errand truck as well as pulling a 24 foot tandem axle trailer. My goal is to be able to haul two small Farmall tractors, 140, Super C, etc. The trailer weighs 2,200 pounds and each tractor would weigh no more than 4,000 pounds or so. For example, the Super C has a planter on the fast hitch and a cultivator on the front. Also considering the Ford and Dodge. For me the Ford goes to the bottom of the list because of its length. Specifications says the crew cab version is 16 inches longer than the GMC with same body style. That means the front of the garage needs to get pushed out, which is not going to happen. Decisions, decisions, decisions!!! Thanks for any and all comments.
- Thread starter WESnIL
- Start date
RickieBlue
Member
I had a Dodge with Cummins and loved it but.....I really like the Duramax and said if I buy another diesel..it would most likely be a Duramax. It is an Isuzu designed engine and runs quiet and decent. Everyone I know that has one likes it alot..but I hear the same for Dodge Cummins and the Ford 6.0 liter owners. The Allison is really decent....I am retired from a municipality and 98% of our fleet was Allison....only 2 had the small allison like you are looking at but from my experience in fleet repair...the Allison is bulletproof!
Allan in NE
Well-known Member
I've spent the better part of a lifetime working on 'em all.
If you're going to go with the Chevy, make absolutely certain that it has the Allison.
Allan
If you're going to go with the Chevy, make absolutely certain that it has the Allison.
Allan
I am on my second Duramax/Allison Chevy. The only axle ratio offered with an allison is 3.73. My 2012 3500 dually is rated to tow 29,000 lbs. I haul a JD450G Dozer on a dual tandem gooseneck with absolutly no problems. It wieghs around 17,000. I wanted a six speed but the allison is the only tranny offered with a Duramax Diesel.My 2002 2500 3/4 ton had 235,000 miles when I traded it. Only trouble one set of injectors under warranty @ 90,000. Loved it and this new one. I get 15 to 16 mpg mty and 12 to 13 pulling.
My son has the Chevy version and does quite well. Replaced injectors under warranty and has about 100K on the clock now. He is in his early 20's and once warranty went away added a programmer and hasn't had any issues with the engine or tranny.
GM has issues with pretty much everything else though. Interior lights only work during the day, speedometer only works when it wants to. Wipers work only when the sun is out. Doors don't fit properly. Typical.
GM has issues with pretty much everything else though. Interior lights only work during the day, speedometer only works when it wants to. Wipers work only when the sun is out. Doors don't fit properly. Typical.
I've have both the Chev and the Dodge, and would never buy another Duramax again. Gone through 4 sets of injectors, cracked injector sleeves in the heads, etc in the Chev. The transmission is the Chev's only saving grace. In comparision I have a Ram with the 6.7 Cummins, that gets a little bit less fuel economy than the Chev, but has required no repairs. Just my two cents.
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
Do you want a diesel or do you want the cheapest cost per mile?
Depends of the difference between gasoline and diesel at the pump. The difference in purchase price and how long you are keeping the vehicle. Around here even if oiled a 15 year old vehicle is a rusted out piece of trouble. Depends on how many trailer miles and how many non trailer miles.
Before the diesel breaks even on fuel costs. The truck can be in the scrap yard before it breaks even if you have to pay for non warrenty work.
The gasser has no carb, heat riser valve, no Egr on some, no glow plugs, no turbo, single battery, single alternator, a low pressure injection system. No particulate filter, no urea injection, no waste gate, no trans oil filter, less crankcase oil, cheaper fuel and oil filters.
The gassers are 345 to 403HP. A long way from the old 145HP 350 four barrel.
Don"t let somebody tell you the diesel will outlast the gasser either. A pickup is a light duty application, it"s not a ship propulsion engine . 300, 000 miles on a gasser that still runs great is a common occurance.
Of course some guys just have to have a diesel. Don"t know if it"s status, the sound, the smell or what. I don"t see any classes at the drag strip for who has the best 1/4 mile time with a loaded trailer. The gasser does just fine hauling a load.
Depends of the difference between gasoline and diesel at the pump. The difference in purchase price and how long you are keeping the vehicle. Around here even if oiled a 15 year old vehicle is a rusted out piece of trouble. Depends on how many trailer miles and how many non trailer miles.
Before the diesel breaks even on fuel costs. The truck can be in the scrap yard before it breaks even if you have to pay for non warrenty work.
The gasser has no carb, heat riser valve, no Egr on some, no glow plugs, no turbo, single battery, single alternator, a low pressure injection system. No particulate filter, no urea injection, no waste gate, no trans oil filter, less crankcase oil, cheaper fuel and oil filters.
The gassers are 345 to 403HP. A long way from the old 145HP 350 four barrel.
Don"t let somebody tell you the diesel will outlast the gasser either. A pickup is a light duty application, it"s not a ship propulsion engine . 300, 000 miles on a gasser that still runs great is a common occurance.
Of course some guys just have to have a diesel. Don"t know if it"s status, the sound, the smell or what. I don"t see any classes at the drag strip for who has the best 1/4 mile time with a loaded trailer. The gasser does just fine hauling a load.
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
Sorry about that
Ultradog MN
Well-known Member
- Location
- Twin Cities
See,
This is why I value the Conceited Canuck over the German expatriot.
This is why I value the Conceited Canuck over the German expatriot.
RandyB(MI)
Well-known Member
I guess I'll have to second that! I doubt if anyone could have worded it any better. "Miles per dollar" just isn't something most want to know because it doesn't fit what they allready like. Unfortunately , I'll bet the guy has allready made up his mind on the diesel issue.
I have Dodge diesels and my brother has Chevy Diesels. The Chevy has a better ride and cab comforts. The Cummins motor is better than the Duramax. The Cummins is much cheaper to work on and seem to have fewer problems.
The deciding factor to me is that I want a manual transmission. Chevy only offers the automatic.
The fuel mileage is going to be worse on the Chevy than the Dodge if you really load them. I run pulling a 9000 lbs tandem dually trailer. My truck and trailer weight 14500 empty. I can put ten ton on it and still get 13-15 MPG. My brother has the exact same trailer. His outfit is lighter by 1500 lbs. If he puts ten ton on his it will only get in the 10-12 MPG.
I also have not touched any of the engines on the four Dodge diesels me and my sons own.(oldest is a 1990 the newest 2008) My brother has had the injectors go bad on two of the three Duromax engines he has had. You are looking at a $3000-4000 grand repair if you have the work hired done.
I would not go with a diesel for the light load you are going to be pulling. So unless you are going to be doing a lot of hauling I would not spend the extra money. The extra cost of the diesel up front will not pay back unless you are really needing the HD towing and even then you have to run many miles.
The deciding factor to me is that I want a manual transmission. Chevy only offers the automatic.
The fuel mileage is going to be worse on the Chevy than the Dodge if you really load them. I run pulling a 9000 lbs tandem dually trailer. My truck and trailer weight 14500 empty. I can put ten ton on it and still get 13-15 MPG. My brother has the exact same trailer. His outfit is lighter by 1500 lbs. If he puts ten ton on his it will only get in the 10-12 MPG.
I also have not touched any of the engines on the four Dodge diesels me and my sons own.(oldest is a 1990 the newest 2008) My brother has had the injectors go bad on two of the three Duromax engines he has had. You are looking at a $3000-4000 grand repair if you have the work hired done.
I would not go with a diesel for the light load you are going to be pulling. So unless you are going to be doing a lot of hauling I would not spend the extra money. The extra cost of the diesel up front will not pay back unless you are really needing the HD towing and even then you have to run many miles.
Bob Huntress
Member
What part of the country is that?
uncle henry
Member
i have a dodge cummins stock i get 20-22 empty loaded with a trailer i get any where between 13-18 when i go to tractor shows or over the road it serves as my motel aka the dodge house
I Third it. But I love the push of Diesel on my back as the Turbo is spooling up. Went on a 350 mile trip one way the other day. I followed a New Cab style Dodge Cummins 3500 pulling a M Farmall on a gooseneck. probably less than 10000 total. I had a Ford 5.4 Gas F250. Pulling about 7000 total. The Dodge got 10.8, and the Ford got 8.7 Gas was 3.29 so cost 37.81 per hundred miles or 264.67 for the trip. The diesel was 3.89 so the Cummins cost 36.02 per hundred or 252.13 for the trip 700 miles. The diesel does climb hills a lot easier but the gasser will keep up even though it may be in second at 75 mph. Didn't start out going that fast but eventually you can't help it!
I have to agree with buickanddeere. Most of the diesel pickups around here are farmers/construction or kids that have to show off. Most of the kids hot rod the heck out of them so I'd be real reluctant to buy one of those. The farmer/construction use em hard. Again I'd be reluctant to buy one of those.
The average truck around here not owned by farmers/construction pulls a boat to the lake in the summer and snowmobile trailers in the winter and most don't get a whole lot of miles put on them. Considering how they are used by most people and miles driven I'd have to say in the long run gas will be cheaper to operate unless you are buying near new or new and driving it till it dies. If yer trading every four or five years between the higher price of diesel, maintanance and the price of buying the diesel truck you would, as an average driver be hard put to get the same miles per dollar figures that you would get with a gasser.
I have owned a diesel and yea I liked the heck out of it but I would not buy another. Just don't make sense to me for what I need.
Rick
The average truck around here not owned by farmers/construction pulls a boat to the lake in the summer and snowmobile trailers in the winter and most don't get a whole lot of miles put on them. Considering how they are used by most people and miles driven I'd have to say in the long run gas will be cheaper to operate unless you are buying near new or new and driving it till it dies. If yer trading every four or five years between the higher price of diesel, maintanance and the price of buying the diesel truck you would, as an average driver be hard put to get the same miles per dollar figures that you would get with a gasser.
I have owned a diesel and yea I liked the heck out of it but I would not buy another. Just don't make sense to me for what I need.
Rick
Deere Scotty
Member
If You are thinking about a newer used truck; then please check with a dealer about a new one! If You finance; You might get into 0% interest. No used vehicle will be that low. My credit Union has posted the following interest rates for used vehicles at teller windows.
1 - 2 years old: 2.9%
3 years: 3.5%
4 years: 4%
5 - 7 Years: 4.99%
Minimum Credit Score: 750 for those rates, & 10% down.
You wont save much on a used 2012, & if You look hard there might be some new ones still out there thats dealers are clamering to get rid of. Its been a while; but I factory ordered a new 2005 Chev 3500 SRW Dsl with the Allison Auto. got it about $6750 off list of $41,000.
1 - 2 years old: 2.9%
3 years: 3.5%
4 years: 4%
5 - 7 Years: 4.99%
Minimum Credit Score: 750 for those rates, & 10% down.
You wont save much on a used 2012, & if You look hard there might be some new ones still out there thats dealers are clamering to get rid of. Its been a while; but I factory ordered a new 2005 Chev 3500 SRW Dsl with the Allison Auto. got it about $6750 off list of $41,000.
No comparison between the two. The "conceited Canuck" is a knowledgeable guy and can present it well when he wants to if he hasn't gotten up on the wrong side of the bed--and that seems to happen about 8 days a week.
Now if he ("buick and dearborn") will just come clean about all of the Ford N's he owns.
The other guy's posts were interesting but just posts and often lacking in substance.
Now if he ("buick and dearborn") will just come clean about all of the Ford N's he owns.
The other guy's posts were interesting but just posts and often lacking in substance.
John M
Well-known Member
- Location
- Nunyafn business
I have an 08, with that combination. I have had 0 problems with it. Its been a good truck. Would I buy another one, nope! Especially when gasoline is cheaper than diesel, but I do like the "little bigger" size compared to the 1500. BUT, this engine, AT THE TIME, got better mileage than the gas engine in the same truck, so thats what I went with, and around here anyways, the gas engine was hard to get in a 2500. With a little illegal mods, they still dont get great mileage, but better, and I plan to leave it as is. Ive heard the newer ones like your looking for get a little better mileage. Heck my 01 Powerjoke dual cab dually got better mileage than this thing does. I got a better deal on this truck than a gasser anyways, so I went with it.
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
Wait until the 2013 production mid year replacement 2014"s with the direct injection gas V8.
For the last 10 years I've driven diesel pickups as I used to pull a gooseneck trailer with a loaded weight in the 16,000# range and the first diesel didn't have much EPA requirements. Now I only have a fifth wheel camper weighing around 9,000# loaded (similar to the 10,000# you plan to pull except more wind resistance). Sold the diesel and now have a half ton pickup with a rated towing capacity of 11,300#. My son has a similar fifth wheel he pulls with a 3/4 ton V-10. There's a lot of difference between pulling 10,000# and 16,000#. So, the things the gas engine won't do are: take 15 quarts of oil, cost 60 - 80¢ a gallon more for fuel, cost $26.00 for an oil filter, require $60.00 worth of fuel filters every 10,000 miles, tow 10,000# up Santiam Pass any slower than the diesels, take 8 miles to get heat out of the heater, require DEF fluid (or $300.00 EGR valves in my case), plus I'm sure there are other things I forgot. Diesels are not well suited for short trips and they don't do well not being used much (lot rot). They are high maintenance and really costly to service or repair. But, if you're pulling really heavy loads on a regular basis, you'd want one (or you may just want one anyway).
chucksoliver77
Well-known Member
ferd, is that 1/2 11300# rated pickup a f150 with the 3.5 Ecoboost and if it is how does it compare to the v10 when towing and just cruising around? just curious, chuck
Yes it is. It has the Max Tow package and towing 10,000# or less, it pulls the load every bit as good or better than the V-10 or the diesel. It's much easier to get around with and the thing I like about it for towing is it develops most of it's torque under 1,700 rpm so it pulls more like a diesel than a V-8. Highest I've seen the tach is 3,500 rpm when it shifted into 3rd going up Santiam Pass with the camper at 60 mph - but it would easily pick up speed going up the pass if I wanted to. Towing it gets 10 mpg, short trips in town (no highway driving) 15 mpg and over 22 or so on the highway - maybe more depending how fast you want to go. Think it's rated at 360 hp and 420 foot pounds of torque. It's got about 9,000 miles on it and so far it's met or exceeded my expectations.
we've used both gas and diesel at work they get used in some pretty rough conditions, i would walk pass a row of gas burners to get to a duramax with an allison, we have several late model trucks with 6.0 gas engines also had a v10 ford none of them could hold a candle to the duramax it was the oldest of them all it had 250k on it had to change out for a new dodge with a cummins thanks to the fleet department it doesn't compare to the duramax either,as for repairs man i know bought a new cummins last fall 7000 miles 2 injectors quit dodge told him he would have to replace all of them or void the warranty,also said that water in the fuel caused the problem and that voided the warranty,to the tune of 10,000 dollars out of pocket,sounds like to me dodge has a inadequate filter system,as for the 6.0 ford i won't go there
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