I noticed this summer that a 2 out of 3 of my elm trees, right next to the wood shed ironically, lost there leaves in July. I was haying the farm this summer and saw some elms down there 3 miles from my house also lost there leaves, Bronz leaves were all over the ground, we had a drought, but I can't see that hurting the trees. I did see a wood pecker on the trees that lost there leaves, and the bark is laying all over the ground,, and the trees look a different color on the bark, could this be Dutch elm disease that caused this to happen? Wood pecker eating the beetle? I dident cut them down yet, I'll see if they leaf out next spring, if they don't I'll cut them down for firewood. I'm not crying over them, my favorite hardwood tree is the sugar maple, and hemlock, and white pine for evergreens. Lol.
- Thread starter JayinNY
- Start date
Zachary Hoyt
Well-known Member
Sounds like it could be dutch elm. They make good firewood, or lumber if they are big enough to worth sawing.
Zach
Zach
onefarmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- 6735 S Lowell Rd, St Johns, Mi 48879
They die out around here when 6-12" diameter. The biggest I've seen is maybe 18". They do burn good. I let the dry on the stump a few years then cut them up for the fire.
gtractorfan
Well-known Member
Elm's fun splitting with a hydraulic splitter, but well nigh impossible otherwise.
Adirondack case guy
Well-known Member
Jay,
Suprised you had any left that were able to turn into trees. Here 40m west of you the only elm that grows is scrub elm bushes. The Ash is all but gone in the last 5 years also, due to the Asian Ash beetle. The Adirondack Bat Factory in Dolgsville, north of me is strugling to find good , and Ash logs, for their top rated baseball bats,and other companies like Union Fork & Hoe closed down due to the lack of Hickory and Ash Lumber. I am seeing Dozens of Big rig log haulers traveling west on US20 in front of my home each day. Big loads pilled high. Talked to a local logger the other day, and he said the local forests are dieing, due to disease from insects, and landowners are selling now, while the logs are still worth more than firewood price.
Loren, the Acg
PS, you going to MacFadden auction?
Suprised you had any left that were able to turn into trees. Here 40m west of you the only elm that grows is scrub elm bushes. The Ash is all but gone in the last 5 years also, due to the Asian Ash beetle. The Adirondack Bat Factory in Dolgsville, north of me is strugling to find good , and Ash logs, for their top rated baseball bats,and other companies like Union Fork & Hoe closed down due to the lack of Hickory and Ash Lumber. I am seeing Dozens of Big rig log haulers traveling west on US20 in front of my home each day. Big loads pilled high. Talked to a local logger the other day, and he said the local forests are dieing, due to disease from insects, and landowners are selling now, while the logs are still worth more than firewood price.
Loren, the Acg
PS, you going to MacFadden auction?
Jim in Ma.
Well-known Member
Yes - Elm makes great flooring for a trailer deck or horse stall it you can saw it 2" thick.
For fire wood, it burns pretty hot and produces little ash.
For fire wood, it burns pretty hot and produces little ash.
I bought a truck load of logs last winter that was all ash, from Schoharie co? Guy should have sold them for bat wood! Yes there's still a few elms on my property, but also alot of dead ones. I have two nice ash trees in my back yard, they provide nice shade for the house, I'm hoping they don't get the ash borer. Around here the hang purple bags in the ash trees along the road side, to catch the emrereld ash borer, you see that out your way? Yes I'm
Gonnna head our to MacFaddens. How about you?
Gonnna head our to MacFaddens. How about you?
You guys really have me thinking. Here in Tennessee no problem with the elm , large as 24 in or so. No one wants them. Saw mills sometimes will take them but all and all they are considered junk. I have some large logs been laying for several years. we tried burning it and it just would not burn. I ma go back and try again. I have a wood-mizer mill and have cut some flooring out of the elm but it bows and warps bad.
Don't pile the cut wood below another elm - will be dead in 24 months.
Perhaps with the nearby woodshed, that's what got them to begin with?
Stringy hard to split wood, but good firewood, can make good lumber for some things but after Dutch Elm, the wood becomes more brittle and not so good for lumber any more....
We burned cords and cords and cords of it, was th most popular tree around here, and split it all by hand, start scratching your head when you burry the 5th splitting wedge and nothing comes loose - we have 5 wedges....
would get 3 feet across here before the fungus.
--->Paul
Perhaps with the nearby woodshed, that's what got them to begin with?
Stringy hard to split wood, but good firewood, can make good lumber for some things but after Dutch Elm, the wood becomes more brittle and not so good for lumber any more....
We burned cords and cords and cords of it, was th most popular tree around here, and split it all by hand, start scratching your head when you burry the 5th splitting wedge and nothing comes loose - we have 5 wedges....
would get 3 feet across here before the fungus.--->Paul
Traditional Farmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- Virginia
Compared to Oak,Hickory and Locust Elm ain't ain't hitting on much as a firewood in my opinion not as good as wild cherry either about the same as Maple which is better than not having wood I guess.
Traditional Farmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- Virginia
Locust beats them all and Red Oak burns good just harder to dry and split than White Oak but my 35T helper does the splitting so its no big deal.
Traditional Farmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- Virginia
Locust,Walnut,Oak and Hickory grows here like weeds.
Vernon in Ks
Member
Which elm? chinese,native, red??
WE have three American elms behind our barn. Around July this year - the healthiest one all-of-a-sudden had all the leaves die and fall off. I've never seen any tree to that so fast. I'm not sure if it had a "heart attack" or might leave out again this spring. Around the same time, all our potato plants died.
steve terplak
Member
ACG, I live about 5 mi from jay and we have an abundance of ash and some big hickory's in our lot....jay we had a few elm's die off this year.
See you guys at macfaddens tomorrow...I'll be the guy being outbid on tractors.
See you guys at macfaddens tomorrow...I'll be the guy being outbid on tractors.
Geo-TH,In
Well-known Member
Not sure what kind of elm trees died. Lost 3 this year, thinking it was the dry weather. The bark fell off. Looked like something eat between the bark and tree. Lumber had holes in it and a slime like worm. My trees were cut down. Trees had leafs in the spring and died real fast.
I work for a parks Dept in Northern Indiana. The last of my elms are about dead. This week we started the task of clear cutting all our ash trees. Over 100 trees will be gone in the next few months. We are burning them all whole. Most of them are dead or would have been at the end of the next year. This week we removed 25 that were planted along the road way in 1993 the year the park opened.
uncle henry
Member
wait til next year that is what they told us here in texas last year we were drier last year than the dust bowl years
What "onefarmer" said below. I live down in he Southern tier of NYS, right on the NY/PA border. I ahve Elms that grow to about 10'-12" diameter and then die out. Lots of Ash but some of it started dieing years ago, long before the beetle was around. Beetle was just discovered in our area. Loggers around here are are cutting a lot of ash.
Elm will burn if it is in the right stage, that being the bark off and before it starts to rot.
Elm will burn if it is in the right stage, that being the bark off and before it starts to rot.
I'm 4-5 hours north of you Jay in the St Lawrence Valley. I have Elm the lives and a lot that dies. I have one huge pasture tree that nothing seems to bother and a lot that can't seem to survive. I read someplace one that Elms that horses and cattle rub on don;t get the disease. I don;t know if it's true.
I burn a lot of dead Elm, a LOT! Now that our Ash are also dying from an insect the DEC says we don't have (just like the mountain lions we don;t have!) I'm going to have better fire wood.
I burn a lot of dead Elm, a LOT! Now that our Ash are also dying from an insect the DEC says we don't have (just like the mountain lions we don;t have!) I'm going to have better fire wood.
Jay, what you describe, sounds like "flagging". I'm not sure what happens but when the elm gets the DED, this is the first sign one branch will yellow out like that. You'll have to read about DED to understand it but there is a beetle involved and once a tree flags, I believe you have a 50/50 chance to save it, if injecting fungicide.
You take the fungicide, mix in a pressure tank, use your compressor, pressurize the tank and connect it to an injection harness you have already installed on the tree trunk, at the base, per the instructions, I did an old tall one that was near where our barns and old house were, unfortunately it had already flagged, I put close to a 100 gallons into it, sad to see such a tree die off from this.
You can protect existing ones that do not have the fungus by injection of fungicide.
I live on about 98 acres, tons of elms, smaller ones, had some nice ones near the house and various places, most died off from DED, another round of this must be here. You are supposed to either de-bark or burn the wood, all of it to help mitigate this, so stacking the wood with bark on it may not be of much help. Again there is some reading to do, the Ulmus Americana is my favorite tree, besides black cherry, the canopy and beauty of a mature elm is something to appreciate, I have one similar in shape to the one on the web page, if it were to live as long it would be like the thick lush one illustrated that was said to be able to cover 500 people under it.
As it stands right now I have a bunch of these to get down that died this year, going to be a large pile of firewood from it.
You take the fungicide, mix in a pressure tank, use your compressor, pressurize the tank and connect it to an injection harness you have already installed on the tree trunk, at the base, per the instructions, I did an old tall one that was near where our barns and old house were, unfortunately it had already flagged, I put close to a 100 gallons into it, sad to see such a tree die off from this.
You can protect existing ones that do not have the fungus by injection of fungicide.
I live on about 98 acres, tons of elms, smaller ones, had some nice ones near the house and various places, most died off from DED, another round of this must be here. You are supposed to either de-bark or burn the wood, all of it to help mitigate this, so stacking the wood with bark on it may not be of much help. Again there is some reading to do, the Ulmus Americana is my favorite tree, besides black cherry, the canopy and beauty of a mature elm is something to appreciate, I have one similar in shape to the one on the web page, if it were to live as long it would be like the thick lush one illustrated that was said to be able to cover 500 people under it.
As it stands right now I have a bunch of these to get down that died this year, going to be a large pile of firewood from it.
That is really sad to hear about Union Fork and Hoe, I'd like to say tell me its not so !
Ironically, Hickory grows like weeds at our place 30 miles north and west of here, about 10 miles east of Amsterdam, young saplings sprout up all the time, and the old hedgerows are full of shag bark hickory.
Ironically, Hickory grows like weeds at our place 30 miles north and west of here, about 10 miles east of Amsterdam, young saplings sprout up all the time, and the old hedgerows are full of shag bark hickory.
I've watched American Elms die of Dutch Elm disease for all my life. Very common and all I saw died slowly. A few leafs got yellow, then a few branches, and eventually the whole tree.
The elm that seems to have died this July went from being the healthiest looking Elm here to having all the leaves dead in one week. I've never seen that happen to any species of tree before -not even if girdled. This thing seems to have died as if someone flipped a light switch. "On" one day and "off" the next.
Unless there is some new and different strain of Dutch Elm diseage - this is something different.
Where this one died (I think) there are two other ratty lookin Elms with the classive V shape. I say "ratty" because they suffered from lack of rain last year. The thid one though that seems to have died in a week - is Elm for sure but was always a fuller and more roundish tree - and did not have the classic American Elm V shape. I suspect just a cultivar and sub-species to the American Elm.
The elm that seems to have died this July went from being the healthiest looking Elm here to having all the leaves dead in one week. I've never seen that happen to any species of tree before -not even if girdled. This thing seems to have died as if someone flipped a light switch. "On" one day and "off" the next.
Unless there is some new and different strain of Dutch Elm diseage - this is something different.
Where this one died (I think) there are two other ratty lookin Elms with the classive V shape. I say "ratty" because they suffered from lack of rain last year. The thid one though that seems to have died in a week - is Elm for sure but was always a fuller and more roundish tree - and did not have the classic American Elm V shape. I suspect just a cultivar and sub-species to the American Elm.
I think you are right, the sudden kill off, all the leaves at once instead of slow, is different. I've watched the same thing here. I always admired these trees, the shape of the taller ones with large canopies and like the one illustrated, I have one of those at the end of one field next to an old farmers dump, its such a thick, lush, so many limbs its hard to count, would provide several cords of wood, I hope it stays the course, its a work of art that tree. We had some giants here at one time,only prominent tree in old photos, the land was cleared, pasture and ag use, hardly any forest, except a couple of these old elms, likely the first round of DED go those, there were a few close to the same size when I was a kid, but they went too, last one was near our barns, that went in '99 or so, now there's not one of that size.
Adirondack case guy
Well-known Member
Bill,
Union Fork & Hoe has been out of business for sever years now. The Plant was located in the center of Frankfort, NY. This summer the facilities went up in a massive fire.
Loren, the Acg.
Union Fork & Hoe has been out of business for sever years now. The Plant was located in the center of Frankfort, NY. This summer the facilities went up in a massive fire.
Loren, the Acg.
steve terplak
Member
Billy
Where are you? We are about 5 mi south of amsterdam.
You on 67 ?
Where are you? We are about 5 mi south of amsterdam.
You on 67 ?
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
In the 60's and 70's the elm tree was considered a goner here and would never be seen again. There was a few massive old elms here and there in fields isolated from other trees by hundreds of yards that have survived.
Through the 80's and 90's we started noticing significant new elm growth. Some die off but others take their place.
Wondering if some of the elms have at least a partial natural resistance and are passing it along. Seems to work that way with weeds and herbicides. Who ever would have guessed weeds would develop a resistance to Roundup?
Through the 80's and 90's we started noticing significant new elm growth. Some die off but others take their place.
Wondering if some of the elms have at least a partial natural resistance and are passing it along. Seems to work that way with weeds and herbicides. Who ever would have guessed weeds would develop a resistance to Roundup?
Thanks for the update Loren, I always bought union fork and hoe tools, I did read up, saw that ames bought them out, at least a similar old business making the same products, that just plain ole hurts to see something happen like that, old building long time business, especially now with all the overseas junk, anything we lose like this, just resonates of a bit of sadness, manufacturers like that represent something that is becoming scarce today, I still hope there is a resurgence someday, say like craft brewing, went from 60 breweries to something like 1600 now, wish we could do that with other industries in the U.S.
Brian G. NY
Well-known Member
Well...if you don't think maple is good firewood, you must be burning soft (red) maple and not hard (sugar) maple!!
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