OT: Sports vs. Job?

PJH made a good comment about being a sports player on my other thread.

Here was my reply to him:

I was never a "jock" in high school. My boys, are, though.
They are -almost- at the age where they could get an after school job. And I want them to. Builds character. So do sports, I guess. Maybe. Sometimes sports builds that 'hero' attitude like you say.

I don't want my boys to miss having an after school job for the sake of sports practice. Maybe they'll have 'weekend' & 'summer' jobs instead.

Sports were never important to me, but I know kids from our little school who have gotten sports scholarships to go to college. So if it helps my kids go to school, I'm for it.

What do you all think? Have you been through this sport vs. job problem? How did you handle it?

I agree with you that kids need to learn to work and learn the value of things but, There school years are the only time they are likely to play sports, they will spend the rest of there life working!

i'm 65, early in high school i told my dad i wanted to play football. he looked at me and stated great; however, if i wanted a car, which i did, i had to get a job to pay for it. so faced with sports and no car or job with car i choose work. a car gave me freedom and responsibility, it was me who bought it, me who gassed it, me who insured it, me who maintained it. now 50+ years later: same freedom, same responsibility.

I've never been trough it with a child, but I guess you could say I went through it myself growing up. I have to say I can see the point about kids playing sports and using them as a way to obtain a scholarship, and if that is their goal, then great. The problem is that often the sports side of things becomes the kids priority and takes away from the learning they ought to be doing. Even worse is when the school starts to view them more as an athelete rahter than a studnt and allows their grades to slip by making things 'easier' for them because they are the star player.
I guess what I'm saying is that like anything sports can be a usefull tool to get ahead but, like anything else, it can be perverted and become something that's not so good as well.

On the other side of things, I never played any sports in high school. I did play baseball around 12 yrs old, and run hurdles for the JV track team for one season. In both cases the coaches sucked. The baseball guy really didn't have a clue and was more worried about winning than he was about us having fun and learning the game. In the end we got punished and had to run laps if we lost, etc, Funny thing we never got told where we erred, and/or how to do things 'right'. Basically play the game and win, or else, but you've got to figure it all out on your own. Now the track guy was one that catered to his couple of 'stars' and left the rest of the team to fend for ourselves instead of training us. He'd give us all drills to do at practice, and then off he'd go to work with his pets. The problem was that for technical things like running hurddles there were things that you needed to do to develop the correct form, stride, etc to do them right and get fast enough to win. He'd say do this and then disappear instead of hanging around to watch and see what you did right or wrong and help you develop.

By the time I had finished with my 'sports experince' I really didn't have much use for sports in general. Then there was always the deal of seeing the jocks in high schol that were treated like, and thought they were 'gods' because they could run fast and catch a ball. All the while guys like me that could actually do something useful like repairing your truck, wire your house, etc were treated like second class citizens because we didn't play sports. Basically many people are much more interested in being entertained than they are anything else, and since they consider sports as entertainment anybody not participating doesn't seem to matter as much.

I really didn't care at the time, and still don't, but it all gave me an insight early on as to how screwed up this worlds views are on things. Personally I actually enjoyed working on machines, and was good at it. I saw how my successful my dad had become doing it, even with just a 10th grade education, and knew I could do just as good myself. So, after 6 years of the Navy and all the schooling there, a few years welding and fabricating, a few more doing industrial maintance, and all the learning of different trades involved with all of that I finally started to work with my dad. Now I'm self employeed, and even though times have been tight, I've got customers standing in line wanting my services because I spent my time learning and pracxticing to do a job that I love instead of standing out in the middle of a field throwing a ball around thinking it was going to get me somewhere later in life. True there are guys that make a living playing ball, etc, but if baseball, football, basketball all ceased to exist tomorrow we'd be none the worse off, but if every mechanic disappeared tomorrow we'd be screwed. In the end what's more important, working to learn a true profession or learning to play ball and being an entertainer?

Ok, I'm rambling, but ultimately let me say this. Sports, when viewed properly can be a fun and learning experience for anyone. Unfortunately you, as a parent, have to teach your kids that sports isn't everything, that winning isn't everything, that there is more to life than playing sports, etc, etc, etc, because all it takes is one bad coach or school to really screw things up and fill your kids head full of the wrong ideas. I hope this makes sense because I really don't know of any other way to explain it..........

Kids, no matter what the age, get to be kids ONCE in their lives. They grow up and have mortgages, unbearable bosses, deadlines, bills, maybe even kids of their own. Let 'em be kids when they have that one chance. I don't believe I need to make them an indentured servant to teach them work ethics, moral, or some life's lesson. And believe it or not, kids learn a few of those lessons by being involved in sports.

They gain an ability to work as a group towards a common goal. They gain a sense of personal accomplishment. They learn how to win with dignity and lose with grace. They learn that work can be fun and fun can be work. I played sports all through school, then went into the Army. Sports prepared me for that in ways most people never realize. My son and both daughters played sports too. All 3 are successful, have a work ethic that I just don't see in a lot of young people these days. And they still talk with great pride of their accomplishments and friendships they developed while playing sports.

My dad didn't care much for me playing football and baseball when I could have been milking cows or on a tractor. He relented and let me play. To this day, I consider that as one of the many gifts he gave me. I spent years trying to show him how greatful I was and how it made his only son a better person. So in that regard, the PARENT has a lot to gain by kids playing sports. It's up to the PARENT to set some boundries, but to keep them focused on the reasons why they are involved in whatever activities they get into.

In the end, kids will find something to amuse themselves. Sports is a structured environment that lessens the likelyhood they get involved in BAD activities or with bad influences.

My outlook might be a little biased too. My son used his ability on a baseball diamond to get a college scholarship. My oldest daughter went to college on a volleyball scholarship. Saved me countless thousands of dollars!!!!

It all depends on the kids. Two of mine played sports and worked the weekends. The other three did not play sports and they worked during the week after school. Either works.

I would think about how your kids are. If they are going to be setting on their butts playing video games if not playing sports then keep the sports in play. IF they are into football then I would think twice about that. I know too many kids that get injuries that effect them for the rest of their lives playing a "GAME". So my kids had to settle for basketball,track, or baseball/soft ball.

I never played any sports. I started working at the feed mill when I turned thirteen. I worked from 3:30 PM until 9:30 PM.,Mon. thru Fri. Went home and did my school work. Then on Saturdays I helped my Grand Dads at the Black Smith shop. I also did livestock chores at home every morning 365 days a year. I did not work on Sunday other than the morning chores. My future wife and I would go see a Sunday after noon movie. That was my life until I graduated and went into the service.

It helped me become who I am today. I learned at an early age that work brought rewards. I also learned you helped the family out in hard times and DID not keep score. The first three years I worked I gave my Mother half of what I made. That allowed her to go to the store with her head held up and be able to pay for the stuff she needed. Not having to "charge it" and hope to be able to pay for it when the crop was harvested. I was with her when the store owner gave her a hard time over the bill we had there. I started working the very next day. I gave her all of my first few checks and told her to pay the A$$ hole off and to never go back there.

My Dad was working his butt of trying to save all he had. He and my Grand Dad had helped my two Uncles get started farming in the mid 1950s. The Uncles went broke very fast but left the debt that Dad and Grand Dad co-signed for. Dad drove to Waterloo everyday (60 miles each way) to his job as an engineer. Then came home and worked the farm after that. It took every dime to just make the bank payments and not loose the house and farm. By working together as a family we made it. Mom did not have to go through losing another home/farm like her parents did during the Depression.

My working also allowed me and my wife to get married. I had the money to support us. We both where the oldest kids so actually us getting married help the families out by reducing the strain on both families a little.

So I say make/let the kids have a job of some sort. Don't just hand them money. It will be the best lesson you teach them for later in life. They will learn how to manage money much better if it is money they earned themselves. It makes it easier to think about how things work. That bottle of Pop may not look as good if it is your money giving the $1.50 for it.

I agree 100% with Pete below,in that where does it end? Sports instead of a job? fine, no problem? Well there IS a slight problem. How are they gonna get there?? Some live 20-30 miles from school. I will tell ya how they are doing it and I do NOT agree with it. The guilty parents are providing free car , plates , insurance , cell phone (and all it's charges)in case car breaks down and the gas too!!! Without a job they are NOT paying for ANY of this "sports stuff". Way to teach them that everything has it's price and if you play , you pay!! Tis the golden rule of life! Why do people think their grown kids never want to leave home????? Justify it however you want , but NOW is the time they need to learn it. Why is it that the REAL athletes somehow have a job , pay their own way and STILL find a way to play a sport or two???? I,m 62 and they seemed to do it ok back then. Even the ones from the farm. City kids had new GTX and no job to get to practice and farm boy had ole '62 International 3/4 ton rust bomb. Guess who sacked who on the football field??? See how ya shift that GTX with broken arm city boy.

My Father in law and a brother in law both went through college on sports scholarships. I currently have a niece going to a college near nashville on a full ride cheerleading scholarship. Her two brothers also have scholarships but theyre both academic. All three have had to keep a job while doing so and I think its been a good thing. Growing up my parents owned a print shop that I was expected to be at after school and on weekends. I honestly feel that by my parents making me work during my school years they helped me develop a good work ethic. When my boy gets to that age he will be getting a job it may just be on the weekend but he will have one. He will also pay for his car and insurance just like I did. I personally do not feel sports is a substitute for a job.

They have all there life ahead of them to work. They will be out of school in a few years though and in most cases be done playing sports. They learn alot of valuable things they will use later on in life playing sports in school. I understand that you also learn by working and paying your own way too. Maybe there can be a compromise where they can do both. I did both in school. I did my farm work before school and after I got home from sports practice at night. My four kids did the same.

Got a local kid right now trying to balance sports, job and social life. It isn't working well. First thing he's doing is asking for a special scedual at work so he has practice time and Fri/Sat free for dating. When his boss refused (told the kid when he started that they would try to work around his practice times and games for football only) it's becasue the kid is now in basketball. He's working at a C store. Now he has started calling co-workers asking them to fill in for him. He is about to get the axe. Not saying it can't be done but it would take a special kid to do it and the kid just about has to give up a social life.

Rick

If they don't understand the point of having a job, there is no point in sending them to college, sports scholarship or not.

[i:654c4848f0]They learn alot of valuable things they will use later on in life playing sports in school. [/i:654c4848f0]

I hear that a lot from people defending the cost of sports programs when school budgets come up at Town Meeting.

Could you give me a couple of examples of how playing games has prepared you for life in the real world?

Competing in athletics, particularly team sports, builds confidence, rewards hard work, gives leadership opportunities, and teaches the importance of working as a team.

All of these are very important in any career and life in general. I can tell you that personally it has been very beneficial in my career. I can also tell you that in my experience, nearly all senior executives that I have dealt with at least competed in High School sports, many also in college.

Your kids can work all of their life, but the opportunity that they have to compete in high school or college sports is relatively short.

They can always get a job in the off season.

As a teenager, I played basketball in Junior High and High School. During the school year I was expected to put emphasis on grades first, basketball second. My dad allowed me to focus on those activities in that order and I was not expected to hold a job during the school year. The trade off was I had many chores and responsibilities on the farm during the weekend and some nights if I was not studying and doing home work.

During the summer, I was expected to have a job and work it full time to the best of my ability. My dad wanted me to learn early in life to have a good work ethic.

"Could you give me a couple of examples of how playing games has prepared you for life in the real world?"

Well, if the kid is really, REALLY good, he could be a pro basketball, baseball or football player and he'd have a wealthy life. (Notice I didn't mention pro hockey here. Heh, heh)
Seriously 14, you've got a point. Only a few select few make it into the pros. My daughter is a freshmen in a large college this year on an academic scholarship. She's taking calculus, chemistry, and a few other engineering "fun" classes. She tells me that the jocks from the school all get a tutor, but yet they still can't get a decent grade and are really clueless. The football jocks also come in with castes and crutches.
Before everyone thinks that I hate sports, I don't. I took football, basketball and track in high school, was fairly decent at it, but I honestly don't know what I learned from it that really helped me in life. All the drivel about team work and hard work can be learned without going out for sports. My two boys are in high school now and are taking some sports. But I have a hard, fast rule that it better not interfere with their grades.

Fawteen you said it best....ever hire a sport jock? I have tried several with no luck at all. Alot of kids do sports so they look good in mom and dads eyes. S hool sports have taken control of our school system and they wonder why the home schooling has a big grip now. My neighbor was the principal of our school. He and his wife asked if I would hire some school kids. I asked for ten names that would be there every work day? Well they tried several times to come up with one.......not a single kid that did not have to play ball or something the entire summer.

Screw sports. I'll tell you what I've seen- spoiled sports "heroes" and their cheerleader "princesses" that can't handle life outside the school environment. Spoiled babies that got handed extra points on their school work or tutored so they could play in the big game. Spoiled brats that got special treatment by the school, the community, their parents, etc. Spoiled whiners that could never understand why things weren't going their way. Spoiled bullies that stepped all over the non-jock types.

I participated in sports in high school, but it was a sideline, not my whole life. When I went in the Marine Corps I saw the hero jocks sitting on a bar stool reveling in their glory days. When I got back, most of them were still holding down that bar stool, only 40 lbs heavier with no job. Sports taught them nothing, the "character" it built created a worthless bum and since they were handed grades and everything else, they were generally too stupid and lazy to put any effort into bettering themselves. And yet, those losers called me "lucky" because I wasn't a drunken stoner with multiple DWIs that scored in the top .5% on my entrance exams to a real career.

If kinds want to play sports, fine. Just don't let them make it all that life is about.

Guess I'm in the camp with those who say that you're only a kid once- 3 years to play sports, then 40+ years to work. I wasn't a jock- tried a little basketball, but was so bad at it that I booted myself off the team. But if I'd been good at sports, it would sure leave a sour taste to have been denied the opportunity to play just because of some part-time job that, in the overall scheme of things, is really pretty meaningless.

Reading some of the postings below make me realize just how lucky I was to have parents that instilled a strong work ethic in me, at the same time allowing me to enjoy life rather than being treated like a slave. I worked. I played sports. I learned from BOTH, but primarily, I learned FROM MY PARENTS.

There are a few post's below that come from people who've over the years, related their battles with their kids and grand kids on here, for all the world to see. And yet they're critical of how some of us raised our SUCCESSFUL, WELL ROUNDED, NORMAL kids who managed to become useful contributing members of society while playing sports. One poster in particular has comented several times on how a child in his charge has a criminal record, won't work, is destructive and ungreatful for what he's been given in life. And yet he wants to tell those of us who raised GOOD kids where we went wrong. Not naming names, just sayin'....

Thought I'd add; My son, who went to college ona baseball scholarship now has a high ranking position with a fortune 500 corporation, farms in his off hours (along with me) and at age 27 is knocking down a 6-figure income at his day job. He got his job through a connection he made while playing highschool ball.

My daughter is a 5th year medical student. When she first left highschool, her grades were OK, but not strong enough to get into med school. Her college coach pushed her and pushed her to improve her grades. (colleges have to maintain a GPA average to keep full compliment of scholarships) By the end of her junior year, she was on the Dean's list, and is now carrying a 3.90 (out of 4.0) GPA. She wouldn't be where she's at now had it NOT been for her involvment in sports.

It's up to the individual child, with the assistance and guidance of their parents to get the most out of what life has to offer. At THAT is what holds back most kids....Parents that are too close minded and too bull headed to believe there's a better way than what they went through. Myself? I've always wanted BETTER for my kids than just good enough.

Personally, I think sports....in general..are highly over-rated in the US of A. This hero worship and the thought that "I'm" gonna be the next Jordan or Bird or Lincecum, etc is symptomatic of the culture we've got. For a kid raised in town or in the surburbs, it might be the thing to do. Never played sports in HS......had to catch the bus and go home.........to do whatever was laid out for me to do on the farm. From the time I married....at age 21/almost 47 years ago.......I've seldom not been involved with sports, after working ......at least.....10 hours each day. Played fast-pitch/organized softball in my 20s; played co-ed volleyball in my 30s and 40s; took up tennis in my late 40s and have been playing twice per week (old, fat man's doubles) ever since. It's actually a co-ed/multi-ethnic group which kinda fell apart a few weeks ago. I've talked to 2 different folks this week about getting it up and going again the Spring.

I too grew up on the farm, but was blessed to have athletic talent. The only fights I can remember with my Dad growing up in the early 70"s was getting home late after practice and not having enough time to finish work, especially in fall and winter. I played basketball and was fortunate enough to get a scholarship to d-1 school. That was a full time job in college. It paid for 100% of my costs and provided opportunity to travel and see the USA from east to west and north to south. I wouldn"t trade that experience for anything. My 3 kids all participated in little league and high school sports. Sports teach teamwork, responsibility and time management skills. Around here, most of your better athletes are also some of your better students. They know if they don"t get the grades, they won"t be on the team. I still play basketball competitively and travel all over the country with my teammates.

[i:654c4848f0]Competing in athletics, particularly team sports, builds confidence, rewards hard work, gives leadership opportunities, and teaches the importance of working as a team.[/i:654c4848f0]

Pretty much what I expected to hear. I'll stipulate that these benefits apply. Couldn't say from personal experience, never did the athletics thing. I'd also say that a properly organized work-study program provides the same benefits in a much more real-world scenario.

Couple of questions tho:

1. "Leadership" applies to the Team Captain and Co-captain (or whatever). 2 people out of the whole program. Not very cost-effective is it?

2. When money is tight and programs must be cut, how does one justify the costs of a program that benefits perhaps 10% of the students? Equipment, uniforms, coaches, referees, transportation to away games and other associated costs do nothing that I can see for the other 90% of students. Yet around here, the mere mention of cutting the basketball program will get you lynched, and I suspect it's probably the same in most places.

Not trying to start a fight here, just having trouble grasping the situation.

It depends on what they want.
Do they want a car for themselves? If yes then they need a job to buy the car and put gas in it.
I quit sports early in the 11th grade so I could have a job and earn money for the car that I bought from my parents for $600 I think. Make them earn what they want.........Dont give them large items like cars.
Another way to think of this is that are they going to playing sports at 25? Not likely, starting teenagers out working lets them experience the real world. (sports practices and games are not the real world.)

Youth sports are a good thing.
They teach kids determination, poise, teamwork and build strong bodies and confidence.
Pro sports are not good.
They are a major cause of the decline of this great nation.

That guy who hired me because I wasn't a football player must have had a bad experience somewhere in his past. He was a tough old guy - no nonsense - a veteran of both WWII and the Korean war. He expected hard work from his help. I worked hard for him that summer, and he treated me like a son.

I see where some high school athletes let their importance go to their heads, and I think it hampers them. There's an adjustment back down to the real world. Some adjust quickly - some not so quick, and some never seem to adjust. And then there's the athletes who don't succomb to the "hero" attitude. No adjustment necessary for them. My boys played Little League baseball, but they usually managed their farm chores well. Sometimes I helped them out if they were playing late away games. They drove my truck or their Mom's car on dates. My grandsons played ball and made top grades, and my grand daughter has a perfect gpa, and is also on the school skeet team, FFA, and 4H. I never played sports in high school. Dad died when I was in the eighth grade, and the pennies were pinched pretty tight. I worked a 200 customer paper route every day, and never missed a chance to pick up a couple bucks by working for the local farmers or doing odd jobs for the folks around town. When your paper route covers the whole town, everyone knows you, and you get lots of odd jobs. After saying all that - I think I turned out OK without playing sports in school (some would question that, ha). And I know my sons and their children turned out OK by, or in spite of, playing sports in school. I have no answer to the sports/job question, except there's gotta be a desire to work, either built in or installed into a person, or he/she won't be worth a hoot for nothing.

At 15 I started working on a nearby farm my senior year of high school I decided to play football. I still worked on the weekends and through the summer. The only regret is that I didn't play the other three years of high school. I would support there choice to do either but not let them sit around all summer doing nothing.

Sports, in moderation, can be a good thing. One thing in my area in the last 15 years is the off-season practices and traveling teams that take the parents on hundred mile trips every weekend and consume the family's time and money with the hope that junior will someday be a pro whether they have any talent or not. A few years ago the NE Husker FB team studied when the players began playing FB. A large margin did not play until high school if I remember correctly. If you have the time and money and want to do it, fine, but I have seen parents spend themselves broke and the kid can't even make the high school team! Some of those kids had great talents outside of sports, but the ball playing broke the bank.

Have you tried to hire a high school age kid for some work lately? Between practice, lifting, camps, games, social time, etc. they can work one day per week for maybe a two hour stretch.

I played every sport I could as a kid, encouraged by my Parents (Dad esp.), my Parents gave me everything I NEEDED: clothes, food...and were possibly the best parents anyone could have. BUT: if I wanted more than the basics: Levis instead of Rustlers, a neat car as opposed to the "68 Fury Wagon Dad provided to get me to and fro sports once i was old enough to drive, a Ruger 10/22 instead of My Grand Father"s single shot Sears and Roebuck, to go out on a date instead of sitting home watching Hee Haw (funny how I"d love to get that old .22 back from my Brother, have that old Wagon again, and be able to sit around with Dad and Granpa watchin" Hee Haw again!) I had to pay for it my self, so I worked and played sports: My Uncle"s Farm cut their hay at night, chemically treated it and baled it wet in the AM, so Dad dropped me off (starting at age 12 or 13) on his way to teach summer school, by 1pm when Dad was done teaching, haying was done, so he picked me up and dropped me at my Cousin"s Farm where they baled later as the hay needed to be dry, by 4:30 after a day in two hay mows Dad would pick me up and get me to the Teener League or Legion game (he coached.) I would do this all summer, because during Football I lived off the earnings as the only thing more important than Football was women, so no work during Football! LOL Then basketball rolled around and I worked part time at a lumber mill sorting lumber off the slot sorter and a few hours at the local mom and pop grocery.
My Sister came next; Softball, Volleyball, and Soccer, always worked at the same Mom and Pop as I did, and wherever else she could summers.
Lil Brother next: Used to put a carryall on the Fast Hitch Super C, load a push mower, rakes, trimmers...and do lawns all day all around our Hamlet. My Parent"s planned vacations around sports for years, it helped keep us close, built character and team skills.
We all learned and earned from working, but I speak for all of us has been discussed over drinks) we all work full time at least now, we wouldn"t miss work a bit if a significant windfall came our way...but we"d all cut off our right leg to get back in a real and competitive football game (volleyball in Sis"s case) even just for one quarter! Ya can"t replace that, I feel sorry for anyone who never experienced it!

The whole sports thing is driven by the "promise" that your kid *will* become a rich professional athelete.

It ranks right up there with winning the POWERBALL... People do win the POWERBALL, and people make it to the pros. If you don't try you don't have any chance at all right?

I did both. I played 3 sports as a freshman in high school. By my senior year I was working and playing one. I ended up getting a nice scholarship for my academics and also another one for athletics. So it can pay off.

There is a lot to learn from sports and from having a job. I think getting the experience from both is important.