My Dad"s Super c battery has been sitting for over a year. I want to charge it or determine that the battery is no longer any good. I have seveal questions that I need answered here because I have gotten conflicting opinions from friends, neighbors and O"Rielly"s auto store. Do I hook up the charger + to + or backwards? Do I need to disconnect the battery from tractor before charging? What polarity is the generator on the tractor charging the battery? The tractor is kept on another property and not run very often. I would like to keep this from happening in the future. Is a cheap float charger effective in this situation, or do i need the more expensive digital mantainence charger. I know this is a lot of questions, but I know they will be answered correctly here. Thanks so much for all of your help.
- Thread starter mwkellner
- Start date
Do I hook up the charger + to + or backwards?
As posted below + to + and - to - from charger to battery
Do I need to disconnect the battery from tractor before charging?
Battery can stay in and connected to tractor when charging
What polarity is the generator on the tractor charging the battery?
The tractor originally was Pos ground meaning its Pos terminal was frame grounded. The charger so long as its + to + and - to - charges the battery correctly
To be safe and once the battery is charged, Id Polarize the genny prior to starting the tractor.
John T
As posted below + to + and - to - from charger to battery
Do I need to disconnect the battery from tractor before charging?
Battery can stay in and connected to tractor when charging
What polarity is the generator on the tractor charging the battery?
The tractor originally was Pos ground meaning its Pos terminal was frame grounded. The charger so long as its + to + and - to - charges the battery correctly
To be safe and once the battery is charged, Id Polarize the genny prior to starting the tractor.
John T
Wayne in MN
Well-known Member
As others have stated always when charging (or Jumping) any vehicle always hook + to +, and - to -.
If a vehicle is positive ground or negative ground, that only means how the battery is hooked up to the vehicle. It does not change the polarity of the battery. On many shematics we were taught to believe ground is negative. On vehicles, ground only means the wire leading to the vehicle's frame.
When jumping or charging a battery when you hook negative to positive you will double the voltage of the system and can destroy all the electrical components on that vehicle or both vehicles more so when jumping. When you hook a battery charger up positive to negative you will get lot of arcing and the charger doesn't even have to be plugged in for this to happen.
If a vehicle is positive ground or negative ground, that only means how the battery is hooked up to the vehicle. It does not change the polarity of the battery. On many shematics we were taught to believe ground is negative. On vehicles, ground only means the wire leading to the vehicle's frame.
When jumping or charging a battery when you hook negative to positive you will double the voltage of the system and can destroy all the electrical components on that vehicle or both vehicles more so when jumping. When you hook a battery charger up positive to negative you will get lot of arcing and the charger doesn't even have to be plugged in for this to happen.
Nancy Howell
Well-known Member
We have several JD's with 6v positive grounds. From experience, disconnect the cables from the battery to the tractor, then connect positive to positive and negative to negative on the battery and charger. Trying to charge the battery without disconnecting the batter cables from the tractor will be unpleasant. BTDT
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
Your advice makes no sense.
The battery explosions you alude to occurred because somebody jumpered chassis to chassis instead of - to - and + to+ .
The battery explosions you alude to occurred because somebody jumpered chassis to chassis instead of - to - and + to+ .
[email protected]
Well-known Member
Connect the charger exactly as you do with any other item. + to + and - to -. The only thing that no one else has mentioned is that when you jump start an item with reversed polarity is that you do not want the vehicles to touch. I charge mine with a 10 amp automatic charger. It does very well for me. I bought my 6 volt battery new in Sept of 2008, been going strong ever since.
old
Well-known Member
- Location
- Camdenton Missouri
Forget how it is ground makes no difference as to what side of the battery is ground because you ALWAYS hook a charger up + to + and - to - NO MATTER what. The term + or - ground is one of those things to many people over think which is what you have done
rustyfarmall
Well-known Member
The two Shumaker float chargers I have will automatically detect if the battery is a 6 volt or a 12 volt and set itself accordingly. I am using one on a 1940 H with original 6 volt cut-out relay, positive ground system, and an identical charger on a 1940 M with 12 volt alternator conversion. The charger just doesn't care one way or the other.
rustyfarmall
Well-known Member
Which reply are you responding to?
Nancy Howell
Well-known Member
I never said there was an explosion. Hooked + to + and - to - with the battery cables attached. The digital display on the battery charger went nuts, beepers went off, etc. Tried removing one cable, still got the warning. Disconnected both cables and no problems.
I've been hooking up battery chargers 30+ years, so I'm not a novice. I've never had a battery explode and I never had that issue until I tried to charge a 6v with positive ground and didn't disconnect the cables.
I've been hooking up battery chargers 30+ years, so I'm not a novice. I've never had a battery explode and I never had that issue until I tried to charge a 6v with positive ground and didn't disconnect the cables.
I believe the idea was that the electricity "flowed better" with a positive ground.
"Common knowledge" is that electricity flows from positive to negative. Science says it flows from negative to positive, because the electrons do the work, and electrons are negatively charged.
Reality is, it doesn't make a hill of beans worth of difference. It doesn't flow perceptibly/measurably better one way or the other.
Negative ground was likely chosen because it is easier to remember. Negative (with regards to numbers) is generally regarded as "lower". Ground (with regards to the dirt under your feet) is also considered "lower."
pete black
Well-known Member
general motors trucks believed in negative to positive
flow so much in the 40's and 50's that they made
their pickup trucks negative hot. they believed
with 6 volt cranking it gave a stronger cranking.
one of their thoughts why gmcs were better than
chevrolet.
flow so much in the 40's and 50's that they made
their pickup trucks negative hot. they believed
with 6 volt cranking it gave a stronger cranking.
one of their thoughts why gmcs were better than
chevrolet.
old
Well-known Member
- Location
- Camdenton Missouri
Your problem did not come from the fact the battery cables where still hooked up but came from the fact digital equipment is so much more sensitive to stray voltage as in stack etc that it messes the reading up. Learned that when I was a Navy E.T. and worked on stuff they was so sensitive you had to hook your body to ground to keep from blowing the circuits up
old
Well-known Member
- Location
- Camdenton Missouri
If it is dead a slow charge is more likely to bring it back then a fast charge will. Make sure all 3 cells are full of water before you start charging it also
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Nancy, I have also had this same problem with my JD40. Have to disconnect the positive ground from the battery, otherwise the charger gets very angry. I don't understand why.
rusty6
Well-known Member
- Location
- East central Sask.
I've never had a problem charging batteries while their cables are still connected to the tractor (truck car etc.). 6 or 12 volt, pos or neg ground, I've got them all. The one charger has a polarity indicator light that will come on green if you are connected right.
Seems to me most of the older stuff was positive ground. Ford flathead cars and trucks, Cockshutt, Case, JD tractors from the fifties and earlier were all positive ground.
Seems to me most of the older stuff was positive ground. Ford flathead cars and trucks, Cockshutt, Case, JD tractors from the fifties and earlier were all positive ground.
Bob Bancroft
Well-known Member
- Location
- Aurora NY
Yep, Nancy's charger is just too fancy.
Russ from MN
Well-known Member
- Location
- Bemidji MN
I have seen where people hook chargers up backwards to a completely dead battery and it will charge backwards. Then you have a mislabeled battery that you should drain dead and charge correctly!
wilson ind
Well-known Member
Atta girl Nancy give it back to him
willie in mn
Well-known Member
Nancy
Have to jump in here on your side. Before anyone gets excited, stay with me. Have worked with many systems, 6, 12, 24 volt, pos & neg ground. Even Mack 12v with rev-pol solenoid that feeds 24 to starter, 12 to everything else, & 24v bus that has 1 post in the big panel (post #55) that is 12v for accessories.
The problem that I have run across is that some chargers have the metal case connected to the neg cable.
No big deal unless the case of the charger makes contact with the vehicle chassis that is connected to pos post of the battery. Then the fireworks begin. Seems to work okay if charger is not allowed to touch metal on vehicle.
Willie
Have to jump in here on your side. Before anyone gets excited, stay with me. Have worked with many systems, 6, 12, 24 volt, pos & neg ground. Even Mack 12v with rev-pol solenoid that feeds 24 to starter, 12 to everything else, & 24v bus that has 1 post in the big panel (post #55) that is 12v for accessories.
The problem that I have run across is that some chargers have the metal case connected to the neg cable.
No big deal unless the case of the charger makes contact with the vehicle chassis that is connected to pos post of the battery. Then the fireworks begin. Seems to work okay if charger is not allowed to touch metal on vehicle.
Willie
pete black
Well-known Member
not sure when but the advent of modern transistors in the radio is probably the reason gmc and others went to positive hot. prior to transistors, radios utilized a vibrating tube which would operate either neg. or pos. ground. modern transistors will operate one way typically pos. hot, neg. ground and since most vehicles of the era were wired so, gmc changed to positive hot.
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
Find the person that told you that story and kick their lying @ss.
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
And just how much do you think you or Nancy knows about electricity compared to some of us here?
Nancy Howell
Well-known Member
I never ever charge more than one battery at a time with the same charger.
One battery, in the battery compartment of the tractor. Battery charger was on the wood floor, so no conductivity between the charger and the tractor.
One battery, in the battery compartment of the tractor. Battery charger was on the wood floor, so no conductivity between the charger and the tractor.
Nancy Howell
Well-known Member
No one questioned anyone's expertise, so just chill out.
I spoke from firsthand experience. I know for a fact that if I hook my battery charger to a positive ground tractor with the battery cables still attached, things do not go well.
Since the charger was sitting on a wood floor and not contacting any metal, that had nothing to do with it, either.
What happens to you, B&D, if you connect a charger to a positive ground tractor and not disconnect the cables may be completely different.
You do it any way you want, but before I put a charger on a positive ground tractor, those cables are coming off. Period.
I spoke from firsthand experience. I know for a fact that if I hook my battery charger to a positive ground tractor with the battery cables still attached, things do not go well.
Since the charger was sitting on a wood floor and not contacting any metal, that had nothing to do with it, either.
What happens to you, B&D, if you connect a charger to a positive ground tractor and not disconnect the cables may be completely different.
You do it any way you want, but before I put a charger on a positive ground tractor, those cables are coming off. Period.
James Howell
Well-known Member
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willie in mn
Well-known Member
AFIK, on 6v cars & light/medium trucks, Chev was always neg gnd, GMC & Pontiac were pos gnd, not sure, but think rest of GM line,Buick, Olds, Cad, along with Studebaker, Hudson, Nash etc & complete lines from Ford & Chrysler were pos gnd.
When GM changed to 12v in 55, they made everything neg gnd, Ford & Chrysler did the same in 56, IHC trucks went 12v pos gnd in 57, neg gnd in 58.
Don't know about the others, but Henry Ford went pos gnd because his buddy Edison said to, claimed it helped prevent corrosion of steel frames.
With the invention of the transistor in 47 things start moving quickly. Early diodes required that the metal case had to be on the neg side, so that was connected to chassis. Other choice would be to use 2 wire isolated circuits instead of using the chassis for one side. Most builders went neg gnd with 12v to be ready when transistor radios & diode controlled alternators that were in developement hit production.
Kind of O T, Edison invented a lot of stuff, but was working with D C current for powering buildings for lites etc. His system powered lower Manhatten, but could only push current about a mile, too much loss from conductor resistance. D C current will not go through a transformer to increase voltage for long transmission lines, then back down for consumer use. His rival, Tesla, was working with A C. His first system from Niagara Falls to Buffalo used A C, transformers kicked up to high voltage for less resistance & line loss, than back down for consumer use. Proved A C current could be sent over long distances.
Longer than I wanted to get,& more info than you wanted.
Willie
When GM changed to 12v in 55, they made everything neg gnd, Ford & Chrysler did the same in 56, IHC trucks went 12v pos gnd in 57, neg gnd in 58.
Don't know about the others, but Henry Ford went pos gnd because his buddy Edison said to, claimed it helped prevent corrosion of steel frames.
With the invention of the transistor in 47 things start moving quickly. Early diodes required that the metal case had to be on the neg side, so that was connected to chassis. Other choice would be to use 2 wire isolated circuits instead of using the chassis for one side. Most builders went neg gnd with 12v to be ready when transistor radios & diode controlled alternators that were in developement hit production.
Kind of O T, Edison invented a lot of stuff, but was working with D C current for powering buildings for lites etc. His system powered lower Manhatten, but could only push current about a mile, too much loss from conductor resistance. D C current will not go through a transformer to increase voltage for long transmission lines, then back down for consumer use. His rival, Tesla, was working with A C. His first system from Niagara Falls to Buffalo used A C, transformers kicked up to high voltage for less resistance & line loss, than back down for consumer use. Proved A C current could be sent over long distances.
Longer than I wanted to get,& more info than you wanted.
Willie
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