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o/t college majors and kids

glennster

glennster

Well-known Member
figgured i'd run this by you guys as there is such a diverse group here. daughter is on the fence at selecting her college major. right now she decided to hit junior college for 1 year and then transfer. her choices were chemical engineering, computer engineering and architecture. she is leaning now toward architecture at ill institute of tech. it is a 5 year program. i was kind of hoping for computer engineering, but she seems to have decided on architecture. i have no idea what the job market is in that field. your thoughts and opinions?? she is really good in math and science. she will go on then for a masters.
 
Support her in whatever she chooses. It will likely change after a couple of years at college. If she really likes that field, so much the better. Unconditional support is important in building her confidence. My opinion. Pete
 
Job outlook for engineers is pretty good, especially the more "tech-y" branches. Architecture, not sure. Bet she could call an architectural firm and find somebody to talk to about it.

I was just relieved she hadn't narrowed it down to General Studies or English Lit. Were that the case, I would advise she forget college, and just go directly to work for Mickey D's. She'd save all that money, and in 4 years, she'll be a manager, instead of just starting out on the grill.
 
This is one of the hard times in being a parent- watching your kids making decisions that you aren't comfortable with. There are a lot of possible jobs and career choices for Architects, for her to be a practicing and licensed architect she'll more than likely have to have a master's degree. If the program she is going into is a 5 year program I wouldn't be surprised if she had a master's coming out of it. About the best thing you can do for her is support her and question her about what she is going to do with the piece of paper once she gets it. Work with her to have a game plan in hand and follow up on her implementing it. I might encourage her to get a background in engineering to complement her architecture degree allowing her to do some of her own engineering on projects,insure the engineering on her projects are up to snuff and know the warning signs of engineering about to go bad. Encourage her to get a job or internship at an engineering/architectural firm to get a better idea of what a project architect actually does. I don't think many architect students realize the insane amount of documentation and paperwork that goes into a project today. You might have her investigate if it is possible to get an environmental, structural, mechanical or civil engineering degree as the BS and then go for the master's in Architecture, or investigate getting a minor in urban planning, public affairs management or business to improve the chances of being successful in the architectural world.
 
Lots to consider here.
1) starting in the Jr. College and then transferring is a common story that sounds like a good idea. Reality is often that despite what they tell you up front, many of the credit hours won't transfer. Talk to both the Jr. College and the regular school that she might later attend. I've heard a lot of horror stories about how the credits wouldn't transfer. The exception to this is if she goes to a big school, she might be able to pick up some humanities classes during the summer at the local Jr. College. That process seems to work OK and will save you money if she can do it while living at home in the summer.
2) as an engineer, (and my daugther is also an enginer) I am biased towards it because it will provide a solid foundation that would allow her to do a variety of things. I know chemical engineers that work in plants, in refineries, as petroleum or environmental enginners, and some that have gone on to medical school.
3) Architecture sounds great to artistically inclined young people - it sounds like you are mixing art with a job that actually pays. My architect frind tells me that the only one who makes money is the guy who owns the firm.
4) computer engineering? my wife is a retired comoputer systems analyst. US workers are competing with outsourced workers from India, Ireland, and other places where they have a lot of smart people who speak english and will work for low wages. Many large companies have moved most of their accounting and IT departments to these countries.
If she had the smarts and drive to do engineering, do it. And if she gets accepted to a big univeristy, they have lots ot study groups and mentoring to help - but she's got to seek it out, it won't come to her. And plan on 5 years, it's hard to do an engineering degree in 4.
 
Not unusual for young freshmen to waver and change regarding their stated major, compared to a student who's been in the military or workforce prior to college. With her stated preferences, and her math and science interests, she'll have a good base to work from. Too many go off to college with no clue for a major, take up space, run up the debt, cuz all their friends are going. Most of those types don't last two years. Sounds like she's way ahead of that pack.
 
If my sons were college age I would tell them to forget about it and go to a good votech school and learn a trade.

Nothing like the smart kid with $40K in student loans waiting tables smirking at the dumb kid with a certificate in HVAC and a job that started at $60,000 a year.
 
My "Favorite Daughter" I call her (actually my ONLY daughter) attended Ball State University here in Indiana four years for her BS in Architecture then attended Texas A & M for two years to get her Masters in Architecture. Shes always had a good job, a year or so in Dallas Texas, then here in Indiana a year or two, now in Austin Texas. I'm a Purdue Engineering Graduate (later JD from IU School of Law) and that provided a good livelihood so Im partial to Engineering but any of the careers you mentioned sure sound better as far as job prospects then Social Studies or other more abundant arts type of degrees theres not many jobs for.

John T
 
Even though daughter Corey is finishing her first semester as a sophmore, she will, at the end of this year, have enough credit hours to technically be a junior. She has decided to major in economics with a minor in philosophy and business at Marian University in Indy. That is a Catholic abundant arts school but everything she has taken is far from that.
 
Not sure about architecture, but I can tell you the IT field is a tough one.

I've been a high level manager in a few big companies AT&T, EMC, etc.

Yes you can make decent money in it, but you're up against constant competition from our own government.

Our government some time ago decided we IT workers were too expensive, and it'd be a good thing for business in general to import more IT workers to bring IT costs down.

That plan has worked, and worked well.

There are now plenty of foreign workers willing to work for less money, and work 16 hour days to get it.

Hard to stay in that field and remain competitive if you've got a family.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for giving the job to the person who wants it the most - but personally, having two young kids, I found the constant late nights - the 24hr on-call expectation - and work weekends too much to take.

Try to work less than a 50 hour week and you start to fall back fast.

For a kid coming out of school it can be an exciting, fast paced field, but long term - well - really depends on your priorities.

Might just be that all fields are like this nowadays - but all I can comment on is IT.
 
My nephew is an architecture. His first job was in Seattle and just this last year he transfered to another firm in the Twin Cities. He says that right now because of the housing markets jobs are hard to find. He is wishing that he had done structural or architectural engineering. Would have ment another yer or 2 of school but would be easier to find a job.

As far as computers go as others have said it's a real tuff market. I was talking to a guy who was laid off, job went off shore, who is back in school because the market just dried up. Now people who can do networking are still worth money. My son does that. His company is always looking for people. They have about 1/2 of the schools in MN and ND plus most of the businesses too.

Rick
 
Good news for new high school graduates who don't think college-level algebra or freshman English is their thing. A study released Wednesday finds that certificates awarded through short-term vocational training programs can reap a bigger payoff than a bachelor's degree.



http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/education/story/2012-06-06/vocational-education-degrees-pay/55410846/1
 
JRSutton is right on about IT.
I've been on the technical side of IT since 1977, current fortune 100 company for the last 21 years. In July I was told I am a repeatable function and will be replaced by onshore and off shore(Chanai and Mexico City) talent. Ofcourse I have to train this "talent". If I play nice I get 8 months "free" pay. This is the 5th time I've been through this kinda ship.
Difference this time...im 54 not 33.

FWIW....don t. ....
 
First, she will probably change majors 3-4 times before she settles into something.

My degree is Mechanical Engineering, Have always been able to find something to do.

If future earnings are the driver, probably lean toward to The ChemE path, but my crystal ball is not always the clearest.

Good Luck regardless,

Kirk
 
The computer programming field can be pretty tough. My wife trained a bunch of programmers from Pakistan and India (yea, I know, but her company made her do it) and then she got laid off when the people who she trained stayed on. They will work a lot cheaper than Americans and computer programmer companies like that for some reason. Be careful when you go into that field.
My daughter is majoring in the biological and medical engineering field at a state university. There are a lot of areas where it pays to get some schooling at the junior college level, but IMO, this is not one area where you want to do that. My $.02 worth.
 
Don't let her go to a Jr college if she wants to be an architec. Only know one kid that started out and actually finished the program. It's not easy. If she's that smart don't spend a year at a Jr. college. You'll be throwing your money away.
 
Why would you be throwing money away at an accreditated junior college? You get your basics taken care of at less than half the cost of a state 4 year college.
 
Youngest son who was also real good in math and science graduated Valedictorian so he got a free ride to the school of his choice. He majored in computer engineering. Graduated last December and had a job before graduation. Still at the same job, likes it and seems happy. Said he's looking forward to his first vacation this coming January. Maybe this trip he will buy our food and wash our clothes!
I personally would avoid the Jr. College thing, just a waste of an important year in life IMHO.
 
I started out that way, studying pre-architecture at a jr. college. The math/science part transferred fine, BUT the architectural design classes at Lawrence Institute of Technology were sequenced, i.e. Design 101, 102 etc. None of the jr. college architecture courses fullfilled any of the design requirements. I had to start that series at the beginning. I got bummed out with profs that took roll and disapeared, taught on their lunch hour, etc. Final disillusion came when a student nearing his senior year gave us a plan where you had to cut diagonally through the living room to get to the stairs to the upper bedrooms. That's a no-no. Came back home and worked 40 years in the interior trades estimating jobs. Designed my own house with living in one wing, bedrooms in another. Kids could come home from dates and go to bed and we wouldn't even see them unless we wanted to.

Larry
 
Jr colleges, for the most part, are for kids with low test scores that can't get in to the big time. It's hard to get in the school of architecture. Even harder for them to transfer credits from a Jr college and have them count in a major college. Most Jr college's only require that you are breathing to get in, no SAT or PSAT needed.

It tells me that if a kid doesn't want to go directly to a big college, they really don't want to be an architect.

Some Jr colleges are good at training kids for the trades or building skills needed to get in to a big college. It's not the place you want to send your kid if he wants to be a doctor, architect or rocket scientest.
 
The majors you listed will all have very similar courses the first two years, heavy on math with other general science and distribution courses. Chem Engineering would be the toughest but best paying, Comp. Sci. might be easy or hard depending on her aptitude for it and there are jobs out there. Architecture seems like it would be a nice career but I doubt there are very many jobs on the horizon.

I'd say get her into a decent engineering program and don't worry about the major, she can (and almost certainly will) change majors at least once or twice before she's done. Also have her take a look at Civil Engineering, it might appeal to her if she thinks she would like Architecture.
 
she graduated high school last may, and did not yet decide her major. rather than just picking a 4 year college, then not liking the major, she decided she would take some classes at junior college. she is taking calculus and a few other math classes, along with some chemistry classes. she figured she could get her feet wet at the jr college. she is also working and saving up for college expenses.
 
Engineering is much more mathematically rigorous than architecture, and may be easier for some students. Computer engineering will put her on a path of continuous updating of her skills throughout her life. True, any engineering discipline will do that, but computer engineering probably more than any other. Of the three you mentioned, I think I'd be satisfied with my daughter choosing any one of them.

As for junior college, many of my college classmates in the late 70's did the same thing as your daughter, and had no problem transferring credits to the university. Almost without exception, though, they ended up taking an extra year to complete their degree over those of us who started at the university, so the savings may not be realized.

My degree was BS Mechanical Engineering, 1979, from North Dakota State Univ. I just recently retired after 31 years at the Boeing Company, where I worked in a number of fields, almost none of them directly related to my mechanical engineering degree.
 
[i:654c4848f0]Make sure she asks her college adviser which classes will transfer. [/i:654c4848f0]


Can"t speak to architecture, but in engineering she can probably do very well taking basic math and "generals" at the junior college for a year or two (depending on the program). She should talk to an adviser at the junior college, but if she knows where she wants to go she should also speak with an adviser there (at her final school).

That adviser will be the final say on what transfers and he/she"ll also know little tricks such as which courses are only offered once a year and which ones are offered more often, potential bottlenecks in the curriculum, etc. You can definitely save money if you do it right, but talk to the final institution early and often.
 
I can only offer my views as related to nieces and nephews as my oldest is just now a freshman in college studying accoumtimg. IT low paying, Architecture-poor job prospects/low paying, Chemical engineering good pay and prospects. I work for a Fortune 50 chemical company and our email is often filled with internal announcemnets of hiring of chem/mechanical/elec. engineers. Our company is using the mantra that we need more STEM grads. Thats Science,technology,Engineering, Math. Nephew thats a Civil engineer grad had to settle for low pay. Wants to build roads but any Gov't job you won't get hired unless you're a minority.
 
Agree with Big Fred. I completed a BS in Physics in 1966 then directly to a MS in Physics in 1968. THEN took a job, in a tough market, at the pay I could have gotten in 1966 because of no work experience. Ten years later a MS degree in management. Retired from the government in 2001 as a test manager on submarines. Enjoyed the 33 years but it sure wasn't physics. I enjoyed it so much I'm still working keeping former co-workers out of trouble.
Any one of those fields she's interested are just fine with plenty of opportunities. My advice is not to go directly to a MS; get a job for a couple of years and some work experience then get the degree. There are a lot of companies which help pay the freight for the MS and that's a good thing. That MS I would do in business or management because that's where the good pay and bennies are. During that couple of years working she could take a night course in computer engineering it would help a lot on the job.
 
I graduated from the first computer Engineering class at Iowa State. I have EE, ME and ChE working for me now. They are all good disciplines and provide stable income. There is a huge difference between computer science and computer engineering as a degree. I have seen many architectural students struggle, a lot like an artist does.
 
In the "Graduate" it was plastics.
Today, in my opinion, its ROBOTICS.
Anything to do with robotic engineering is going to be the ticket.

I am in IT for 25yrs. Software consultant and lite programing.
Crowded field. Long hours for not so great pay as you are now competing against IT from India and China. Used to be great, not anymore.

Architect is a like pro sports to me. Takes enormous talent to make the big $$$. Too few jobs.

I am 50 and I predict by the time I retire at 70, 75, 80? We will all have personal bots doing our menial tasks and taking care of use.

Pete
 
University of Missouri offers Food Science and Nutrition. DIL is doing real well in that field. She actually was hired on by the military. Day care is a big thing on military bases and their food safety oversight of the day care providers is pretty strict.

My son has his BS in International Agriculture from MU, a MS in Ag. Econ from Purdue and his MBA. His employer actually paid for the last two degrees. Pretty common now if you can get worked into a decent job early. He now works for Mosaic Fertilizer in Minneapolis.

Good luck, Gene
 
We all know you have to like what you do, but you also have to put food on the table.

As for architecture, I would strongly suggest she take a few architects out to lunch. Pick from a couple age brackets and focus (commercial vs residential). I still carry my licenses and do some architecture, but its not the only focus of my business. I quickly found architecture to be a very narrow field for my liking.

I could write a long long post here, but may be best for her to talk to a few architects on her own. If she wants, she can contact me too - I would be happy to talk with her (email's open and she can email then call). I've talked objectively with many high school aged people about the profession without trying to sway them one way or the other. I usually start by asking why they want to be an architect and then also have them tell me what they think an architect does. I get some interesting answers...

Good luck

Tony
 
VADAVE,

The laws of Physics must be good laws, no court has overturned them.

3 laws they didn't teach you in college.

1. You can't push with a rope or chain.
2. If you have a long enough lever, you can lift anything.
3. You can't put 10 gallons of BS in a 5 gallon bucket.
 
My daughter graduated HS three yrs ago.Two Jr. colleges later and now taking courses online studying holistic nutrition(whatever that is).Two yrs ago I told her study something that will get her a job ASAP,and is in demand.I researched pharmacy technican.Its not in the same league as an engineer or architect but is in demand and you can get a certificate in one yr or two for the degree.She reluctantly agreed but fooled around and the program was already full.So she wasted a year taking courses that will not transfer to what she is now studying.Pharmacy tech is not a high paying career but there are Walgreens and Cvs every where and have five or six techs at every store. The outlook for careers is dismal and high paying jobs are hard to find.Medical assisting is another career for young ladies to consider.Forget about high paying jobs,they are gone.
 
I'm a retired Mechanical Engineer(also Master Electrician, Journeyman Tool & Die Maker), father of two Mechanical Engineers(both with Masters Degrees) and an accountant(CPA) I have some opinions on colleges and degrees. There is nothing sadder than someone who has studied hard in a curriculum that interests them and accumulated many thousands of debt with no hope of a job that will allow repayment. Our colleges are all too willing to let this happen to the unsuspecting or clueless young people. In some ways it's survival of the fittest. If kids don't look to the job market in the future their educations will most likely be wasted. I had a long and successful career and my sons are well on their way to the same, but all of us looked very hard at the employment potential before starting down a career path. The selections you mention all seem to be good ones on the surface, being mostly technical, but I would say take a really good look at employment potential after you get that degree. It will keep her from being a talking point in some politicians campaign speech. By the way, I don't put political science very high on the list of desirable degrees. Just my rant.
 
Ah heck glennster,
Send her on down to Bradley in PeoRia and let her be a CIVIL engineer(not that I did).
Will let her use one of the tractors to get back home if her truck breaks.

PS: We could always meet at your "secret" watering hole from time to time when you visit.
 
A degree in engineer will take some work but there will be at least one job waiting for you when you graduate.
I picked up my B.S. in Aeronautical Engieering at Purdue, went to work as a propulsion engineer at Boeing, Picked up an M.S. Engineering at the University of Washington while working full time. I spent 34+ years as a propulsion engneer with Boeing and was never out of work. I retired as Chief Engineer-Propulsion Research and Propulsion Preliminary Design. At no time did I think I could not get additional degrees and change fields and be sucessful at it and that because of the rigoroous training my engineering degrees provided.

Admittedly I"m biased, but I believe an engineering degree can prepare you for any career available out there in the real world.
 
All of them are fine. Her choice should be determined by her inclination toward satisfaction. Job shadowing is the most powerful tool for establishing a baseline of decision making. Those shadowed should be those that enjoy their work. Grumpy disaffected samples are worth nothing. Jim
 
My only comment is to tread lightly--
we all know for every ounce of education
one looses a pound of common sense.

Do what makes sense.

i had a grip on life till i earned my degree in my mid thirties.
can't figure nothin out since...
:)
 
I started college a long time ago in an EE program, flunked out, changed colleges, graduated with a BS in math, minor in education. My student teaching experience cured me of any thought of teaching, and here I am back on the farm and will probably live out my life here.

My older son started with the idea of computer studies, changed majors a bunch of times, and will graduate this spring with a BA in Classical Studies, and a minor in English. He is already fighting off the recruiters from McDonald's and Walmart, :)

My younger son started this fall at a private military school, majoring in accounting. I hope the accounting end of it doesn't turn him into a jerk.
 
actually it's not even "offshore" workers I'm talking about.

The federal government has started a program to allow more foreign IT workers to come and work HERE.

I often wonder how auto workers would feel if the federal government started a program to bring in low wage assembly workers to help lower manufacturing costs.

I don't think that one would fly, but for some reason with IT workers, it's acceptable.

There's a lot of talk about "leveling the playing field" in the world. But having your government import low wage workers from around the world into your career field sure doesn't feel like leveling anything.
 
Glennster,
My 2 cents...

All three are good fields and degrees to have.

1. Chem E. Very good job prospects, very good pay, very good field. Every friend with a Chem E degree is gainfully employed.

2. Architecture. Good pay once you are established, you need to practice under a firm until your established. Once established an "architects stamp" is required on many projects.

3. Computer Engineering. I see the field is very tight and getting tighter every day. India and others countries are flowing a large amount of job candidates.

Her first two years will be the same classes for all three degrees.

By grad. school I am a Statistician, working as an engineer. But that was my undergrad. I also occasionally teach Math/Stats/Engineering classes.

Some of my most important education came from my dad, grandpa and uncle, all machinists. Without that I wouldn't be able to work on my tractors.

Rick
 
Whatever happened to going into an apprenticeship and learning a trade? Not everyone can afford College, especially when you're not sure of what you want to be. As some have mentioned, when I graduated High School back in '66, employers weren't interested in hiring a 1-A employee. I got into an apprenticeship that wasn't my first choice, but I made a good living and am now retired with a pension (no 401-k) and self paid health insurance. It's wonderful when we can choose just what we want to be, but life doesn't always work that way. My attitude was and still is 'make the best of what life give you; you can find happiness in whatever endeavor you (or life) chooses.
 
For the most part I agree with Rick. The only difference is on the Architecture choice. It probably varies a lot depending on location, but for where I am architecture is very dependent on the construction economy. We are very down locally and not much building is going on. But when she graduates in 4 or 5 years the economy may be better and she may be able to get a job easily with that degree.

slim
 
Of course, if external_link gets relected that changes everything. Then I'd tell her to get into politics so she can be a member of the elite ruling class.

:)
 
"I don't think that one would fly, but for some reason with IT workers, it's acceptable."....

JMHO....IT workers are non union. It's only you against the corporate big brother. And more times than not, most IT people are salaried.

Once Im gone from my current place of employment, im not sure I want to remain in IT. I know the grass aint any greener in any other field, but like you said, 24 hour on call support, working more than 40 hours/week, and lets not get into manditory holiday work, sometimes it just aint worth it.

Off my soapbox.....don t. ....
 
She will need your support, no matter what decision she makes.
I would let her make that decision, but give her some guidance on what
to base her decision on, as opposed to what choice to make.
As others have said, what is the job market and where do the skill transfer
if that job market is low. Math skills are math skills. They transfer.

I'm with JR and Don T., I'm in IT.
I don't think its a bad career choice, although you can work at it your whole
life and with the rate technology changes, still not know what you're doing.

Obviously a lot of IT work has to be done after hours or on weekends and
holidays so we're not interfering with normal business.

I posted recently that I had switched companies last year partly due to the hours.
Other than taking vacation time, I had not had a weekend off in about 8 years and
regularly worked 60 - 80 hour weeks on salary.

That company sent me to China for a month to train people to do my job.
The idea was to follow the sun.
We would work only during the day time here, and have them work in
the daytime there, providing 24 hour coverage while reducing overtime.

It worked out that due to security concerns, we continued our 24 hour
coverage here and added the burden of training new people. :roll:
 
If she is just starting out she doesn't have to decide right off the bat. She can take a computer course, a basic engineering course, and/or a basic architecture course (if available) and see which one she likes. I had a scholarship for engineering and they asked me what type I wanted to do; when I said structural they put me in civil. I had to take all the other civil intro courses (water, environmental, highway, geotechnical) and they all confirmed that I wanted to do structural. (I also went straight on for my masters)

One final note. Make sure ALL the course she takes will transfer to the other university AND make sure that any engineering / architecture program is ACCREDITED. Without a degree from an accredited program she will not be able to get the proper licenses if she needs them from the state.
 
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