Author	[Modern View]
rrlund 08-24-2012 09:42:32 207.241.137.116 Report to Moderator	So I got to wondering. What makes somebody middle class? Is it just income,or is it attitude,way of life? Should politicians be using the term "middle income" or something instead? Would the Beverly Hillbillies have been middle class for their beliefs and way of life? How about those folks on that CMT TV show Bayou Billionaires where they had that huge income from gas royalties? Would any of us stop being middle class if we got a windfall on petroleum royalties or something? Try to keep it clean,I've got work to do and won't be able to get back to this for a while and I'd like to know what folks think. [Reply]   [No Email]
Spook 08-25-2012 15:19:53 108.70.62.9 Report to Moderator	Re: Middle class in reply to rrlund, 08-24-2012 09:42:32   Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see bump!   [Reply]  [No Email]
doubleN 08-25-2012 05:07:09 74.45.17.13 Report to Moderator	Re: Middle class in reply to rrlund, 08-24-2012 09:42:32   I think Tramway guy nailed it! Not much needs to be added to what he said.   [Reply]  [No Email]
Tramway guy 08-24-2012 20:20:29 67.249.37.53 Report to Moderator	Re: Middle class in reply to rrlund, 08-24-2012 09:42:32   To me, middle class is when you can probably afford a new car, but you still care how much it costs.   [Reply]  [No Email]
Northvale - PA 08-25-2012 18:41:18 71.114.135.247 Report to Moderator	Re: Middle class in reply to Tramway guy, 08-24-2012 20:20:29   I have only ever bought 1 new car in my life, 27 years ago, before kids were born. Don't ever expect to ever again and really don't mind. To me, dependable is all the class I need.   [Reply]  [No Email]
Spook 08-24-2012 20:03:34 108.70.62.9 Report to Moderator	Re: Middle class in reply to rrlund, 08-24-2012 09:42:32   Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see I've always thought of myself as working class. I see middle class as somebody like my brother in law, a dentist. He isn't rich like Bill Gates or the Romney's, but a darn sight above me, in education and income. I don't think money changes what kind of person you are.   [Reply]  [No Email]
oliver power 08-24-2012 18:38:49 65.37.29.209 Report to Moderator	Re: Middle class in reply to rrlund, 08-24-2012 09:42:32   When it comes to politics, Polititions talk about middle class INCOME. In other words, the working groupe they can take money from. Polititions GIVE money to the low/no income people. And they have a hard time TAKING money from the rich, because the rich make the rules (directly & indirectly). As far as the different class levels of people, it has nothing to do with income, Although income may play a roll in the lifestyle they live. Wile E broke it down into layman's terms.   [Reply]  [No Email]
oldtanker 08-24-2012 20:59:17 66.228.255.239 Report to Moderator	Re: Middle class in reply to oliver power, 08-24-2012 18:38:49   Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see I would really like to see how you justify that statement when the top 10% of income earners pay very close to 50% of all income taxes paid in. You can look it up. A certain party would be very happy if you didn't......you know the ones crying about people paying their fair share........ Rick   [Reply]  [No Email]
Scott in SF 08-24-2012 22:26:51 75.61.89.102 Report to Moderator	Re: Middle class in reply to oldtanker, 08-24-2012 20:59:17   Rick, most people (not rich) pay more in payroll taxes, Social Security and Medicare than they do in income taxes. Far more than the rich contribute to the total US revenue. At a certian rate rich people stop paying those completely. I, now retired public employee, haven't paid any social security since 1987. I won't get it won't miss it. It was a blessing I didn't have to flush 7.5% of my income down that sewer. When I get income off of a rental I don't pay SS or Medicare on that. I am rather well off, and the taxes I pay mostly are real estate. All the fees charged by the city, county, state (like the University for the kids)and all the special districts keep going up, and the poor get hit the same as the rich. You are right about Income Taxes but it is the Social Security and Medicare taxes (and there is no real trust fund) that fund this country (along with a bunch of borrowed money). Income taxes are a small part of it.   [Reply]  [No Email]
samn40 08-24-2012 15:52:26 81.135.24.245 Report to Moderator	Re: Middle class in reply to rrlund, 08-24-2012 09:42:32   The way I see it the only thing that divides the upper class and the lower classes is the amount of money they have or don't have! They seem to have the same moral standards, they don't mind taking all the rest of us have worked to own, they don't mind who or how many they sleep with , they seem to have time to drink and do drugs and don't go near too many of them if you are stuck and need a pull out, Oh and don't go looking the money they owe you, you have no mission. Of course there are exceptions to these points, but as I go through life I have noted these points and some more besides. We , the middle class care more about what people think of us, we respect what others own and we mainly do our best to maintain a standard of clean living and pay our bills. My defination of the classes....!! Sam   [Reply]  [No Email]
Rick Kr 08-24-2012 15:33:52 66.238.169.219 Report to Moderator	Re: Middle class in reply to rrlund, 08-24-2012 09:42:32   I think income and class are two widely different things. Middle income, low income, high income. Thats how much money you make. Class is your attitude/way of life. Class. Some have it some don"t regardless of income. When we use to drag race, we raced with guys that probably were in the $250K a year for income, if not more. Me, no where close. We hung out because we had something in common. There were guys at the track we avoided like the plague. Some made next to nothing, others were rich. The way you act (class) has nothing to do with your income. Its the way you were raised. I tend to hang out with people that don"t act like aZZes, and have the same interests, like tractors, drag cars, etc. When us Michigan YT"ers got together at MMOGTA, none of us asked which class we belonged to, we hung out "cause we all liked old machinery. But the government likes to group it together as middle class, defined by income. My two cents, Rick   [Reply]  [No Email]
John Fulton 08-24-2012 15:08:37 67.142.174.23 Report to Moderator	Re: Middle class in reply to rrlund, 08-24-2012 09:42:32   rrland, Your scenerio of someone getting a windfall may no longer be considered middle class brings to mind here in Virginia a retired military man who moved here and bought a small farm. He would deer hunt with local hunt club, hang out at local country store, etc, in short tried to fit in. He was well accepted member of community. Well, low and behold he hit the Lotto for about $1m. Suddenly he sealed himself off, surveyed his property, put up fences, locked gates and talked to nobody! That is one reason I never buy Lotto tickets!!LOL!! MONEY AIN"T EVERYTHING!   [Reply]  [No Email]
Spook 08-24-2012 19:47:09 108.70.62.9 Report to Moderator	Re: Middle class in reply to John Fulton, 08-24-2012 15:08:37   If you hit the lottery, you will be overwhelmed by relatives, friends, and low lifes. Kind of a curse.   [Reply]  [No Email]
Wile E 08-24-2012 14:52:23 66.188.56.202 Report to Moderator	Re: Middle class in reply to rrlund, 08-24-2012 09:42:32   I think of it like this. Here goes: 1. Lower class, always poor, on food stamps, they dont work, wont work, and high likely hood that they sell drugs. No skills, never finished HS or even a GED. Parents are losers too, and so are the Grandparents. 2. Lower middle class, These folks work at low end jobs. They may or may not be on food stamps. These people may get approved for a car loan. They may own a home. 3. Middle class, that describes me and most other folks. You can likely get a car loan, you own a home, you can go out to dinner sometimes. You have a steak dinner 1 or 2 times per year. 4. Upper middle class, these folks pay cash for cars, own their home, nice retirement stash, money in the bank. Have a steak dinner every week. But the rug could get yanked out from under them and be in the 3rd. class real quick if they lose their job. 5. High class, Snobby, Cadillac or Benz in the garage, would never get dirt on their hands, has contempt for the other 4 classes. Hand me down money. This is just a comment here so dont roast me if you think I am talking about U or your family. Of course both parties in DC will tell you that they will move you up a notch if you vote for them.   [Reply]  [No Email]
oldtanker 08-24-2012 15:11:26 66.228.255.239 Report to Moderator	Re: Middle class in reply to Wile E, 08-24-2012 14:52:23   Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see LOL whats really funny about that is a higher percentage of the #5 high class who did in fact inherit large sums of money are Democrates while the higher percentage of "high class" who earned thier money are Republican.....it's there if you research it. Rick   [Reply]  [No Email]
fergienewbee 08-24-2012 14:43:23 99.181.129.13 Report to Moderator	Re: Middle class in reply to rrlund, 08-24-2012 09:42:32   The presidents idea of middle class is government/public employees. All he ever talks about is teachers, fire-fighters, and law enforcement. When has he ever mentioned, say construction estimators, mechanics, farmers--except in Iowa in response to more ethynol from corn. Hasn't he heard there's a corn crop disaster? Look for higher food prices--that sure helps the working poor and others--yet EPA hasn't suspended regulations for corn in fuel production. I tend to agree with others; it has to doi with both income and values. Larry   [Reply]  [No Email]
wgm 08-24-2012 18:03:02 66.11.102.200 Report to Moderator	Re: Middle class in reply to fergienewbee, 08-24-2012 14:43:23   Three things will occur if the ethanol mandate is lifted Commodity prices will collapse Gas prices will skyrocket The price of food will not drop one penny   [Reply]  [No Email]
rrlund 08-24-2012 18:42:44 207.241.137.116 Report to Moderator	Re: Middle class in reply to wgm, 08-24-2012 18:03:02   And we farmers will be as bad off as we were after Carters stupid Russian embargo. And I say that as a cattleman. Take the money out of grain and everybody and their worthless half brother will be back in the livestock business,trying to make a dime feeding cheap feed.   [Reply]  [No Email]
Royse 08-24-2012 14:15:48 69.36.49.151 Report to Moderator	Re: Middle class in reply to James22, 08-24-2012 09:42:32   To politicians, middle class means people that vote. They don't talk about upper or lower, because they are the upper and the lower don't vote. Outside of politicians, what makes us middle class is having a little class. Class enough to go help a neighbor. Class enough to treat people with respect. Class enough to realize that family is more important than that almighty dollar. If they weren't, maybe we'd be asking for votes.   [Reply]  [No Email]
jbp 08-24-2012 15:25:30 64.57.160.170 Report to Moderator	Re: Middle class in reply to Royse, 08-24-2012 14:15:48   Royce, gotta disagree about the lower class not voting. They vote early and often to keep their benefits coming. They have the time and the politicians make sure they are registered so they can stay in office. Thats why one party doesn't want ID before being allowed to vote. Joe   [Reply]  [No Email]
buickanddeere 08-24-2012 13:33:07 209.240.122.192 Report to Moderator	Re: Middle class in reply to rrlund, 08-24-2012 09:42:32   Wisbaker pretty well has the middle class described. There always was a middle class but down through history until the days of Ford and later. There were a few nobles, wealthy and powerful. A few middle class. And the vast majority of the population were working poor. The middle class making up more than half of the entire population. Is a brief and new phenomena never seen since the dawn of recorded time. The majority of the population being the middle class has existed for less time than some people have lived on this planet.   [Reply]  [No Email]
doubleN 08-25-2012 05:08:03 74.45.17.13 Report to Moderator	Re: Middle class in reply to buickanddeere, 08-24-2012 13:33:07   buick and dearborn- "There you go again!"   [Reply]  [No Email]
Pair-a-dice farm 08-24-2012 12:30:25 184.156.239.100 Report to Moderator	Re: Middle class in reply to rrlund, 08-24-2012 09:42:32   I think richness or lack of is mostly a state of mind. I remember my granddad saying the he didn't know he was poor until LBJ started his war on poverty.   [Reply]  [No Email]
GeneMO 08-24-2012 11:50:55 71.1.102.163 Report to Moderator	Re: Middle class in reply to rrlund, 08-24-2012 09:42:32   Well I got friends in low places. Gene   [Reply]  [No Email]
wisbaker 08-24-2012 11:26:11 184.157.223.164 Report to Moderator	Re: Middle class in reply to rrlund, 08-24-2012 09:42:32   I think the sociologists used to define our middle class as those that had property (during this time that meant a business), but provided labor for the day to day operation of the business, or working but with means/resources. At that time the lower or working class often didn't have much, didn't own a house or much in the way of property or savings. This middle class was predominately merchants and farmers (farmers defined as owner/operators verses share croppers). This changed in the early part of the 1900's, I have read fairly persuasive arguments that the American middle class as we know it was solely a response the the actions of Henry Ford and his $5.00 a day wage. Buy establishing the $5.00 a day wage, that did have some strings attached in the way of social engineering, he created a situation were the working families actually had enough buying power from wages to accumulate property and wealth while still maintaining standard of living. This wasn't totally altruistic, old Henry saw the newly minted middle class as a source of demand for his automobiles, the Ford Motor company had reached a point were they could make more cars than there was demand for Henry foresaw the need for additional demand. His move was counter to common business wisdom (buy your inputs as cheap as possible, but ended up making him millions of dollars more than he spent. Consider this Green Bay Wisconsin is right around 100,000 people, in its' heyday the Ford Rouge River Complex employed 100,000 people or equivalent to every man women and child in Green Bay Wisconsin. This would provide you enough middle class jobs to support a city of approximately 1,000,000 people. This estimate is made using an average family size of 4 (2 kids) so the plant could directly support 200,000 people. Consider 4 people for every direct employee to supply groceries, housing, education, medical services and entertainment (4 is probably light probably more like 8 or 4 workers and their dependents). I guess we can understand why Detroit is as messed up as it is. We can further discuss the basic economics of wealth creation by both middle and upper class citizens and their economic contributions but then it'll get political and we'll get sent to E-limbo.   [Reply]  [No Email]
pat sublett 08-24-2012 11:20:01 99.38.222.121 Report to Moderator	Re: Middle class in reply to rrlund, 08-24-2012 09:42:32   Most working people think they are middle class. It's like average, most people are average. It's nothing but the politicians attempting to appeal to the most people while working hard to create 2 classes, US and the RULING CLASS. This is necessary for our well being.   [Reply]  [No Email]
oldtanker 08-24-2012 11:11:21 66.228.255.239 Report to Moderator	Re: Middle class in reply to rrlund, 08-24-2012 09:42:32   What gets me is they call it middle class so that means there is a low class and a high class.....never hear a politicial say those other two....I thought that our founding fathers faught the Brits to get away froma class system and that we are all just people........isn't there some old documnet that starts out "We the People"????? Sure you have some who are better than others but it has nothing to do with income. Rick   [Reply]  [No Email]
Dick2 08-24-2012 11:00:24 174.26.218.15 Report to Moderator	Re: Middle class in reply to rrlund, 08-24-2012 09:42:32   Made me think of Toby Keith's album: "White trash with money".   [Reply]  [No Email]
SweetFeet 08-24-2012 12:01:51 209.131.224.181 Report to Moderator	Re: Middle class in reply to Dick2, 08-24-2012 11:00:24   Dick 2, Funny song.   [Reply]  [No Email]
IndianaRed 08-24-2012 10:53:16 75.46.81.117 Report to Moderator	Re: Middle class in reply to rrlund, 08-24-2012 09:42:32   We're all middle class, some of us just have more money than the others. As it always has been and always will be.   [Reply]  [No Email]
Fixerupper 08-24-2012 10:51:44 100.42.82.164 Report to Moderator	Re: Middle class in reply to rrlund, 08-24-2012 09:42:32   Jerry S hit the nail on the head. Jim   [Reply]  [No Email]
Hay_Man 08-24-2012 10:42:03 76.1.73.79 Report to Moderator	Re: Middle class in reply to State of Jefferson, 08-24-2012 09:42:32   While, on the flip side, there are over 500,000 poor govt. workers who make in excess of $100,000.00 per year........classey heh?   [Reply]  [No Email]
buickanddeere 08-24-2012 13:25:08 209.240.122.192 Report to Moderator	Re: Middle class in reply to Hay_Man, 08-24-2012 10:42:03   What is wrong with making over 100 grand ?   [Reply]  [No Email]
dave2 08-24-2012 13:35:47 139.139.35.69 Report to Moderator	Re: Middle class in reply to buickanddeere, 08-24-2012 13:25:08   Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see Nothing if you don't let it go to your head..Most (a lot anyway) folks can't handle it tho... Just turns them into arrogant a$sholes and ruins their lives.... Prolly what happened to you since you was so quick to jump in with your usual skills......   [Reply]  [No Email]
buickanddeere 08-24-2012 15:24:44 209.240.122.192 Report to Moderator	Re: Middle class in reply to dave2, 08-24-2012 13:35:47   Ever consider that lightening strike may have been a warning ?   [Reply]  [No Email]
Brad Buchanan 08-24-2012 10:39:40 74.71.185.165 Report to Moderator	Re: Middle class in reply to rrlund, 08-24-2012 09:42:32   I think the term 'middle class' is a moving target. If you make $60.000 a year and live in an area that the average income is $30.000 you are standing on top of the heap. If you make the same and live in NYC or other expensive place you will be hard pressed to afford a one bedroom apartment and feed yourself. The term 'middle class' is a convenient football for politicians to appeal to peoples envy and greed. End of rant. Brad   [Reply]  [No Email]
Hay_Man 08-24-2012 10:37:40 76.1.73.79 Report to Moderator	Re: Middle class in reply to 36 coupe, 08-24-2012 09:42:32   Should politicians be using the term "middle income" or something instead? Wouldn't it be novel to hear one (politician) use the other terms suggested by this one? ie "Low Class" and "High Class" to describe some other groups of people.........just sayin'........   [Reply]  [No Email]
dave2 08-24-2012 10:33:27 139.139.35.69 Report to Moderator	Re: Middle class in reply to rrlund, 08-24-2012 09:42:32   I was all 3 in JR High.... started in low class, then middle, then high.... I don't recognize a class of people myself and treat everyone the same IAW the way they deserve to be treated at the moment....   [Reply]  [No Email]
JerryS 08-24-2012 10:31:18 98.80.113.189 Report to Moderator	Re: Middle class in reply to rrlund, 08-24-2012 09:42:32   To me middle class has not a lot to do with money, but with a set of values, standards, character, self-discipline and the willingness to live up to certain societal expectations.   [Reply]  [No Email]
greg1959 08-24-2012 10:00:46 69.176.13.178 Report to Moderator	Re: Middle class in reply to rrlund, 08-24-2012 09:42:32   rrlund- I agree with you that it would really quantify if 'Middle Income' was used instead of Middle Class. I have neighbors that are as poor as dirt but, would help you in a heartbeat(like helping putting up hay before the rains hit). Then there are those that won't do a thing even though you have helped them many times. I also have neighbors that are multi-millionaires. It's the same way with them. There are good ones and then there are not-so good ones. So, in answer to your question...to me the basis of calling someone Middle Class would be based solely on their income. Which I read earlier this morning that the income for Middle Class falls anywhere between $40,000 to $110.000.   [Reply]  [No Email]
BobInSD 08-24-2012 10:05:01 137.216.208.19 Report to Moderator	Re: Middle class in reply to greg1959, 08-24-2012 10:00:46   I have neighbors that are as poor as dirt but, would help you in a heartbeat(like helping putting up hay before the rains hit). Those guys are "high class" or just "have class". Then there are those that won't do a thing even though you have helped them many times. These guys, not so much. Low class, or no class.   [Reply]  [No Email]