Re: honest mechanics, oldtanker

tedregentin · Aug 16, 2012

Hey oldtanker, you got me going about labor time to change a half shaft on Tempo/Topaz in your previous post. I happened to to run into an old friend of mine who spent thirty years as a heavy line tech in Ford dealerships. I asked him if there were any of those cars that a tech had to remove the trans pan to change axles. He said absolutely. He couldn't remember which trans,but he remembered doing them. I kind of remember doing one years ago.

oldtanker · Aug 16, 2012

(quoted from post at 18:04:54 08/16/12) Hey oldtanker, you got me going about labor time to change a half shaft on Tempo/Topaz in your previous post. I happened to to run into an old friend of mine who spent thirty years as a heavy line tech in Ford dealerships. I asked him if there were any of those cars that a tech had to remove the trans pan to change axles. He said absolutely. He couldn't remember which trans,but he remembered doing them. I kind of remember doing one years ago.

Ted this one just pops out, no need to drop the pan. I have the manuals for most domestic cars up to 2001/02. I looked it up.

Rick

Hobo,NC · Aug 16, 2012

94 was the last year for a topaz are tempo (same car)... You must have missed out on those... anywho with the proper info it does warn ya that its possible to loose the spiders when do'n this job,,, I think one would have to R&R the trans to find them... It's rare to see the wheel end of the joint slip out they could be a mean SOB... You sure you have a temp are paz...

504 · Aug 16, 2012

Some Chrysler products in the early 80s you had to
remove the pan and remove a pin, but I never found
a Ford that way. With a hoist, I could change one
in 30 min. and have time to sweep up when I was
done.

tedregentin · Aug 16, 2012

My only point in bringing up the Tempo axles that one has to pull the trans pan to change the axle is to offer the possibility that rather than intent to rip off your BIL he might have just made an honest mistake.

wisbaker · Aug 16, 2012

As cars got more complex people get afraid to work on them, this opens the door for the folks that do work on them to make more money AND increases the potential for those that do work on them to abuse the car owners. I took our van to the dealer today for it's 5 year power train inspection and had the dealer fix the power window that became stationary. I have been more than happy with this dealer for warranty work but this is the first time I have had them do something that was other than warranty and scheduled service. Let's just say my gut reaction was I was being overcharged. The windows and locks appear to be digitally controlled haven't been able to figure it our on our Honda for the last 20 years don't think a Dodge will be any easier. The thing that first put me off from the dealer is all diagnostic work requires a $102 fee which might not seem so bad on an engine or transmission issue but seems high for a window or headlight issue. But it got fixed, it works, they had the parts in stock and it appears the diagnostic time is all they charged me for on the window. Maybe it's not so bad and if I want them to tell me whats wrong with a power window or wiper motor or power sliding door where I could change the stupid part IF I knew which part to change maybe I should pay them for their time to identify what part needs changing.

The other issue is the elephant in the room no one wants to acknowledge or talk about, the very way we sell cars and service on them leads itself to abuse. It is worse here in the US because most of us don't know how to negotiate, we go into the car buying experience scared that we'll get taken and not really understanding what is a fair profit for a dealer. It becomes a knock down drag out brawl where each side wants to win at the other's expense. The dealer that convinces you they aren't making any money gets the sale or to put it another way the best liar wins the sales war, with the sales process this corrupt is it any wonder it spills over into service?

Dick2 · Aug 17, 2012

We had a Tempo; it was the car that got me to decide that I wanted to buy the most dependable vehicle known at that time, so I bought a Toyota pickup. Sold it when we got the Tundra (which we still have), and also bought a new Camry. If the Big 3 ever build a vehicle as dependable as a Toyota, I will buy it. Until then, I'm sticking with Toyota.

Hobo,NC · Aug 17, 2012

(quoted from post at 08:49:04 08/17/12) As cars got more complex people get afraid to work on them, this opens the door for the folks that do work on them to make more money AND increases the potential for those that do work on them to abuse the car owners. I took our van to the dealer today for it's 5 year power train inspection and had the dealer fix the power window that became stationary. I have been more than happy with this dealer for warranty work but this is the first time I have had them do something that was other than warranty and scheduled service. Let's just say my gut reaction was I was being overcharged. The windows and locks appear to be digitally controlled haven't been able to figure it our on our Honda for the last 20 years don't think a Dodge will be any easier. The thing that first put me off from the dealer is all diagnostic work requires a $102 fee which might not seem so bad on an engine or transmission issue but seems high for a window or headlight issue. But it got fixed, it works, they had the parts in stock and it appears the diagnostic time is all they charged me for on the window. Maybe it's not so bad and if I want them to tell me whats wrong with a power window or wiper motor or power sliding door where I could change the stupid part IF I knew which part to change maybe I should pay them for their time to identify what part needs changing.

The other issue is the elephant in the room no one wants to acknowledge or talk about, the very way we sell cars and service on them leads itself to abuse. It is worse here in the US because most of us don't know how to negotiate, we go into the car buying experience scared that we'll get taken and not really understanding what is a fair profit for a dealer. It becomes a knock down drag out brawl where each side wants to win at the other's expense. The dealer that convinces you they aren't making any money gets the sale or to put it another way the best liar wins the sales war, with the sales process this corrupt is it any wonder it spills over into service?

Your doc has a flat rate fee (office visit) anything else is extra you get your weight, blood pressure and temp took from their if he does any other procedure he charges for it,,, the first time someone told me they called the dealer and they wanted $85 up front for the diagnostic fee my thoughts were "what a concept why did I not think of it"
Nuttin EZ anymore even diagnosing a parking light its not going to get any better...

ASEguy · Aug 17, 2012

If I remember correctly either the Tempo/Topaz platform or the Escort/Lynx platform had a special tool you used to drive out the opposite axle when one side was removed. That special tool stayed in there to prevent the spider gears from falling out. Reinstallation of the axle allowed removal of the special tool. I thought it was needed if both axles were removed. Then again my memory is slipping. Gerard

John730D · Aug 17, 2012

Well, Dick2, Maybe you ought to go back and take a look at Ford's. Hihgest quality vehicle according to indepedent research. I'll agree the Big Three didn't make any good vechiles from about 1975 until mid 90's-2000. Much, much better now.

John730D · Aug 17, 2012

I forgot to add That when you buy American, you aren't supporting the same people that brought us Pearl Harbor. I will admit, I am biased, and will never buy a Japanese vehicle.

Hobo,NC · Aug 17, 2012

It was something like this

https://millerspecialtools.spx.com/Detail.aspx?id=1224&gid=1

Their were times the axle you were working on would not come out so you removed the other side and drove the stuck axle thru the differential out with a tool like this...

Pushing the shaft from the hub (interference fit) was death on the tools I destroyed a few and remember them well... I cover my arse all the time am I a bad wrench to pre-warn the customer even if I don't get the job are would it make it better to have it haft way torn down are all the way for that matter and tell them they need to mortgage the house to get their car back...

I had ratter they bring to much money than not enuff

JF in MI · Aug 17, 2012

I used to be a certified auto mechanic for 28 years. I actually enjoyed the job for about the first half dozen years. If you were even half way decent there was no such thing as unemployment and even better if the economy got worse. Never had to fleece anyone because if they didn’t want the work done there were always 3 more cars waiting in the lot. I could get folks on their way with a few adjustments or replacing some points and showing them the old burned ones. Many would come in on Christmas Eve and bring gifts in thanks. Then came computers. A dead car would get towed in and I would need expensive equipment (that would become obsolete in 3 years) to diagnose a bad computer. I would have to charge them $300 (30 years ago) for a “magic” black box that had to be sent back for exchange. Who wouldn’t think that was a scam? As years went by they still stopped by before Christmas but now only to bi**h me out on how it was my fault they couldn’t afford toys for their kids. It got to the point that the last few years I would absolutely dread going in to work, not just because of the constant cuts, scrapes, burns, and contusions, but because the customers had the same contempt for me as for lawyers. I finally quit the trade and went into industrial manufacturing engineering (a breeze after the auto business). Best job I ever had (for 12 years) but forgot that when the economy gets bad the engineers are the first to go.
A good friend used to have a moderate size independent auto shop 30 years ago and always told me that it cost him 5k just to open the doors each morning with all the overhead. It’s why all your ‘service stations’ (now there’s a forgotten term) are now convenience stops.

Mike M · Aug 17, 2012

Don't overlook the fact that a large percentage of the parts in ANY brand come from overseas.

Eldo case · Aug 17, 2012

This might help you decided what to buy1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lvl5Gan69Wo

RodinNS · Aug 17, 2012

Or he might have forgotten what was invloved exactly with model 'x' and left enough room in the quote.
Funny thing about quotes is that if you quote a hundred bucks and you do it for that when everybody else was 300... then you're a hero. But if you quote 100 and charge 300 because it took three times as long or you ran into some unforseen's... then you're the biggest puncture wound that ever walked even those the rest still quoted 300....

Rod

Re: honest mechanics, oldtanker

tedregentin

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oldtanker

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Hobo,NC

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504

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tedregentin

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wisbaker

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Dick2

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Hobo,NC

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ASEguy

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John730D

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John730D

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Hobo,NC

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JF in MI

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Mike M

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Eldo case

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RodinNS

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