Author	[Modern View]
37Chief 08-14-2012 14:23:58 68.8.206.100 Report to Moderator	I have a 220v single phase motor. I want 110v at the motor. If I take one supply line from the motor (line voltage) and nuteral I have 110 volts. Now where do I get the nuteral line? Can I use a ground for my nuteral, or do I need to pull a nuteral line from the panel? Thanks Stan [Reply]   [No Email]
Stephen Newell 08-15-2012 03:45:57 66.53.82.215 Report to Moderator	Re: O/T Electrical question in reply to 37Chief, 08-14-2012 14:23:58   Slightly off 37Chief's subject but I was wondering why so much 220v equipment you can still purchase today doesn't have a fault ground? [Reply]  [No Email]
gbs 08-14-2012 18:23:11 66.83.123.242 Report to Moderator	Re: O/T Electrical question in reply to 37Chief, 08-14-2012 14:23:58   not trying to start anything just would like to know,from low side of transmission transformer the neutral is continuous and grounded to substation ground grid,neutral wire from the station on most systems is grounded at each pole,if not at each pole it's grounded at the ones with a transformer,transformer neutral post, case grd., pole grd. , service cable neutral wire and line neutral wire are bonded together grounding all them together at the pole,service entrance cable neutral is bonded to meter back from meter back to panel box,then meter back is grounded to a ground rod at that point,also the all the neutral bars and utility grd bars in the panel are bonded to each other and the panel box,question is few years ago i installed and outside main panel box that contained the meter, main and provision for a couple more breakers,then installed a sud panel inside for remaining circuits, feed sub panel with 2/0 lines 1/0 neutral copper ,wouldn't pass until i installed a #6 coated copper wire between the utility bars of each box, inspector couldn't explain why it was just code what was the purpose for the #6 wire when they were tied with 1/0 copper between the neutral bars. [Reply]  [No Email]
paul 08-14-2012 22:31:01 66.44.133.112 Report to Moderator	Re: O/T Electrical question in reply to gbs, 08-14-2012 18:23:11   The ground wire is something you hope you never use, but if needed you will be mighty glad it is there, preventing a fire or more likely a bad jolt or death from electricution. The neutral wire is needed to complete the electrical circut. We say it is neutral, but it ctually is a carrier of electricty, and any metal surface connected to it can have an electrical charge... While they both end up at the same place (to ground away the electricity), they serve _very_ different jobs, and cannot be safely interchanged back & forth. Doing so negates the ground wire (only there to provide a safe place for bad electricity to go) and means you don't have any saftey at all in your system - every metal surface not is potentially electrified. If it were a water system, you could see the difference between the hot and cold water lines; even tho they both come from the same water supply line into your house. One stays only hot line, other stays only cold line..... Electricity, both the ground and neutral wires go to the grounding buss bar, but they are doing very different jobs along the way, and can't cross back and forth. Again if it were water, you'd have tepid water, neither hot nor cold, if you plumbed them back & forth.... --->Paul [Reply]  [No Email]
buickanddeere 08-14-2012 20:37:20 216.183.143.211 Report to Moderator	Re: O/T Electrical question in reply to gbs, 08-14-2012 18:23:11   If electricity was visible and flowed like water. Then more people would understand better. Many persons can not follow an electrical circuit from a diagram, an electrical meter and wiring. So just accept that neutral current is not supposed to flow in the grounding system. Why is the bonded current carrying conductor called the neutral and why is it usually insulated? Why is the ground cable not supposed to carry neutral current and why is the ground usually bare? Part of the problem is the old three wire triplex electrical service with no grounds, used in the bad old days. [Reply]  [No Email]
El Toro 08-15-2012 03:49:14 108.3.143.30 Report to Moderator	Re: O/T Electrical question in reply to buickanddeere, 08-14-2012 20:37:20   I had that standby generator wired 12 days ago. I only have 13 circuits in the transfer switch and they work ok. The electricians must have cut wires to several other circuits as I don't have any power in the laundry room, garage lights, receptacles in the den and no lights in my back basement. The electrician also didn't run an separate AC line to the generator that keeps the battery charged. He did run it on Tueday. The circuits that don't have power were suppose to be left alone in the original Square D breaker box. Hal [Reply]  [No Email]
John T 08-14-2012 16:43:11 216.249.82.117 Report to Moderator	Neutral is NOT same as Ground in reply to 37Chief, 08-14-2012 14:23:58   Great question, myself and the Buick Man and other sparkies have covered this ad nauseum probably a hundred times for yearssssss so I will just keep it brief AND NOT GO INTO ALL THE THEORY OF WHY, that could take a book to explain to a non electrical trained person. Ive tried to explain it here but failed miserably since you cant put in a paragraph what takes volumes and study and experience to comprehend, let alone expect a lay person to understand, so Ive pretty much given up. I just tell people they can do what the NEC experts and trained experienced electricians and engineers say to do orrrrrrrrr believe Billy Bob and his know it all brother in law say who wired their own home over a case of beer and are now experts lol ITS YOUR LIFE AND HOME SO MAKE YOUR CHOICE YOUR QUESTIONS Can I use a ground for my nuteral,??????? NOT ONLY NO BUT HILL NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO (per the NEC and all rules of safety at least, but you CAN and it would "work") The safety Equipment Ground (often bare or green), a GroundING Conductor is ONLY for carrying Fault Current so the breaker opens and saves a life or prevents a fire The Neutral is a GrounDED Conductor (AND ITS insulated) for carrying normal return current If you mix n match and substitute one for the other you can dieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee given certain circumstances NOTE would you open an outlet and strip away the inulation off the white Neutral wire (hey theres a reason the neutral is insulated not bare) and tell your grandkids to touch it?????????? I sorta doubt it butttttttttttt if you go to mixin n matchin and substituting ground for neutral and a neutral circuit then gets connected to the outler metal case of an appliance (thats where the equipment ground is atatched ya know) THATS WHAT YOU JUST DID TO THE GRANDKID Now ifffffffff you had TWO wires there and ifffffffffff One is hot line wire,,,,,,One is a true Neutral,,,,,,,,,THAT CAN SERVE FOR 120 VOLTS but thats a 2 wire circuit that could feed a non grounded 2 prong outlet mind you......If you had THREE wires there and One is a hot,,,,,,One is a true Neutral,,,,,,One is a true Equipment ground, then you can have 120 volts and a 2 pole 3 wire grounding type outlet........ HOWEVERRRRRRRR if it was a 240 volt branch circuit that fed a true 240 volt only appliance (i.e. NO 120 volt loads) it should have TWO hots plus an Equipment Ground (bare/green) AND THERES NO TRUE NEUTRAL YOUR QUESTION or do I need to pull a nuteral line from the panel? Thanks Stan YESSSSSSSSS you need a true Neutral for 120 volts ORRRRRRRRRR rewire (and tape colors) those three wires so one is Hot, one is Neutral and one is ground buttttttt you dont have 240 any longer that way !!!!!!!! OKAY BILLY BOB dont have a calf YESSSSSS I know Neutral is bonded to ground at the main panel (and I know why also) and I know it will 'work" if he used ground, so feel free to do it anyway you darn please lol Ol John T [Reply]  [No Email]
old 08-14-2012 19:28:14 209.86.226.40 Report to Moderator	Re: Neutral is NOT same as Ground in reply to John T, 08-14-2012 16:43:11   Ah but depends on if it is the old 3 wire system or the new 4 wire system. All my stuff is still the 3 wire but I do a ground at each and every building I have just like the power company has a ground at each and every pole [Reply]  [No Email]
John T 08-15-2012 04:25:11 216.249.82.117 Report to Moderator	Re: Neutral is NOT same as Ground in reply to old, 08-14-2012 19:28:14   Ah but he didnt mention he had 4 wire!!!! only that its 220 and from his post it appears he wants to use the ground as a Neutral so he can get 110 AND THATS A NO NO AND A SERIOUS CODE VIOLATION ADN A POTENTIAL HAZARDOUS SITUATION. Now if he has 4 wires there at the old 220 volt welder outlet and one is a true Neutral and NOT just the equipment ground yes he can get 110 by using the true Neutral, but from his post it dont sound like thats what he has (4 wires) Yes under the old code you could run 3 not 4 wires to a building (120/240 volt service) but for years now 4 are required and under EITHER old or new system, of course, each buildings electrical service requires a grounding electrode so you done good by having grounds at all your buildings Take care n keep safe Rich John T [Reply]  [No Email]
old 08-14-2012 15:28:01 209.86.226.40 Report to Moderator	Re: O/T Electrical question in reply to 37Chief, 08-14-2012 14:23:58   A lot depends on if your working with the old type wiring or the new type. The old used a 3 wire set up 2 hots and a ground the new type uses 4 wires 2 hot one ground and one neutral. If your working with the old system you can use one hot and the ground to get the 110 you want but depending on where you are may not meet code. [Reply]  [No Email]
Russ from MN 08-14-2012 14:58:13 68.235.89.1 Report to Moderator	Re: O/T Electrical question in reply to 37Chief, 08-14-2012 14:23:58   You need 4 wires, the 2 hot, neutral, and a ground. If you put much load on the 110 circuit when the 220 motor is running at load it will trip half the breaker, make sure the handles are tied together, all 220 breakers are. [Reply]  [No Email]