I vomitted today...

John_PA

Well-known Member
I was given notice that some pipeline work would be done in some of my rented fields. I had a great cutting of hay from the place, and I have 28 acres of 12 foot tall, tassled, beautiful corn on the place. Really, it's been like my zen rock garden lately. So, I took a drive over to check it out in the sun today.

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Beautiful perfect fields, ears filling nicely... but wait... something is wrong...



Are my eyes playing tricks on me? Did someone give me hallucinogenic drugs?


WHAT IS THIS?!?









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It appears that the pipeline work necessitated the removal of a 120 foot wide right of way for some new pipe!

I vomitted...



I won't get too angry, they did say they would pay for the corn that got knocked down, going by current ear, kernel, and kernel row counts on teh undeveloped corn at CBOT price (which, came out to be 243 bushel per acre) but, for some reason just seeing it chopped up like that with bulldozers approaching literally made me vomit... I guess it's foolish pride, or maybe it was like watching a toddler tromp through a perfectly feng shui'd zen garden... It just feels tarnished now. At least I have some pictures that I can save forever. I will be staring a lot at the pictures during the winter, and for anyone really tromped by the drought, maybe you can enjoy them too for now. I just wish I hadn't ate all that food for lunch before seeing it...


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They have a rightaway for that strip and need room to do their work. Why dont you just stop using anything that you cant produce yourself products have to move in order for us to survive and they have to go somewhere and be maintained. Your opinion makes me want to vomit. Same old story not here somewhere else. Youre getting paid for a crop you dont even need to harvest.
 
Gene,

I'm fully in support of the gas and oil industries. Please don't miss my point. That right of way did not exist when I signed the lease on the land. It is a new pipe line. There is an existing pipeline that crosses the other side of the hill, and rest assured I didn't drop a bottom on it. That existing pipeline is where I had figured they were to be working. Had the owner of the land told me of the new pipeline project, as he was aware long before signing my lease, I guarantee you I wouldn't have planted the corn anywhere near that end of the field.

In a year when I, for once, have a beautiful crop... after years and years of seeing those in the midwest glean corn in teh 200+ bushel range, whilst I struggle in the 75-90 bushel range... another outside force comes and wipes it away. I'm sure you just misunderstood my point. My point is that to me it was a thing of beauty, and a complete and udder shock.

I guess I could have been more detailed and precise in my emotions and feelings, composing quite a long, rambling run-on of a diatribe that took me through each breath. Instead, I tried to keep it short. I will not be so hasty next time. I'm mildly disappointed that you would think I, as a full time farmer, would have that mindset. If you are ever in or around Burgettstown, PA, please do stop in. I'll show you the environment that surrounds the few fertile farms. Burgettstown was the number one coal producer in the entire world during World War I. Most of the coal produced was not taken from underground mines, but through strip mines that still lay unreclaimed. Creeks in this area still run orange with mine run off which is both acidic and laced with sulphur. Have you ever witnessed this?

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One of the strip mines was approximately 3700 acres, unreclaimed. Burgettstown was home to the American Zinc plant back in the early 1900's, where they smelted zinc ore on a 113 site full of old ovens. Not 2000 feet from the site of American Zinc stands Langeloth Metalurgical. It is 1 of 2 Molybdenum plants in the entire United States. Up until the 1980's, the plant did not have a scrubber on teh smoke stack and billowed out 24 tons of surfuric acid daily into the sky just west of my farm. The acid content of the soil is so high, we have acid loving mosses and lichens that are usually only found in Yosemite National Park. So yes, it has always been in my backyard, always will be in my backyard. It's more a sense of pride to have something nice be destroyed in that manner.

Also, the property owner picked that exact location for the pipeline right of way. He could have chose to have it run up against the tree line, or around the parimeter of the farm. Honestly, these people are 100% flexible with these new pipe lines. The local was chosen haphazzardly and regardless, is not the point. I'm not sure why I'm trying to defend myself. I don't want you to get the impression that I am un-American. Like I always say, "it's for the greater good of the people." err wait, no, that was the commies back before the 1980's who said that... hrrmmm...

Oh right, like I always say, to the highest bidder goes the way.

I hope you actually didn't vomit! I literally did, I'm not joking. It was a very odd feeling. Maybe I am too emotionally attached to farming. Plus, I never leave food on my plate. I eat everything so as not to waste food given to me. Seeing that much corn wasted for a 36" diameter pipe... my my... way worse than wasting a few bites on a dinner plate.

Btw, Gene, I burn wood for heat and cook with coal/nuclear fired electricity from the Bruce Mansfield Plant in Shippingport, PA. :wink: and don't think I'm attacking you. I am merely trying to use your response as a segway to prevent anyone else from thinking what you did while being as honest as I can.
 
Well said, John. I fully support the gas/oil/coal industries as well, but our valley has an "orange" creek that originates in the Shamokin area.

Decades ago the coal companies were allowed to rape the land and do whatever they wanted, but over-regulation today isn't going to fix that problem.

Sorry about your corn, nobody wants to see a good crop wasted.
 
You pay the rent, you think that gives you control of the land for the season !!!!
I wish I owned all that I work, but don't. It's scary when land owners start signing leases without any concern.
Does someone else own the field growing up to trees across the hedgerow? That looks like an obvious place for the pipeline.
 
My wife's family is from Burgettstown,PA and I remember thinking,when we visited,about the contradictions. Very productive farmlands and pleasant small towns then lurking industrial horrors. The pipeline is probably for developing natural gas wells in the Marcellus shale. We see a lot of that activity here in NE Ohio,as well.
Progress can be painful,and this is particularly painful when so much corn is burning up from the drought.
 
i feel for all farmers anymore & most look at it like a job (money maker) ,not a way of life, like i was raised, so i feel for anyone who has to look at there crop destroyed by any such " greater good" , i wont ramble on , real farmers know what im saying, but i will say one thing mother earth is crying, has been for long time now and most dont see it. SHE WILL GET EVEN SOME DAY & God help us all , hats off to all farmers who are caretakers of the land & to all that destroy it your day is coming in the end
 
I have a gas pipeline thru a piece of property I own and its clear what the deal is I can plant over do what I want but if they need to come in they will its no surprise like you said you got paid well and didn't even have to go to the expense of harvesting it so whats the problem?
Its only a few acres of corn.
 
You should be very grateful, they will compensate you quite handsomely for the crop they destroy. They could have just declared emminent domain and went right on through without paying you a dime. You're all upset about a couple hundred bushels of corn, think about the hundreds of well paid pipeliners that are going to be spending their paychecks in your towns and boosting the local economy.
 
Grandpa's east central Indiana farm had a gas pipeline buried in the late 1980s. He was well paid for his lost production. His operator was able to plant the next year but it took 10 years before that ground was fully productive again. You could see the stunted corn and beans for several years.
 

The only good thing about having a pipeline buried on land that you own or rent is that it will be un-likely the government will be wanting to build a free-way through that land for several more years, or that someone will get the idea to erect a bunch of those hideous wind turbines on top of it.
 
I HOPE you get paid for the crop. I had a natural gas line put in on a farm I farmed 20 years ago. It was a local delivery line. They tore up the out side six rows of corn clear across the front of the farm and down one side. A total of 1 1/2 miles of road frontage. They assured me that they would pay me for my crop. They even had a local guy hired to go around and tell us how "good" they would treat us.

My "BIG" corn check from them was $189 dollars. Yes that is right $189. That was for about 2.5 acres of corn. I had the ASCS come out and chain measure the damaged amount. So to them my corn was worth $75 per acre. Plus I had to cross a fresh trench to access any of the fields. They did this in Sept. So with Oct. harvest all of the dirt was fresh. I broke two different wagons that fell into the un-compacted trench.

I sued the company that did the trenching work and the local utility for damages. I won at the local court level then they appealed to the state court. The court upheld the ruling BUTTTT they reduced the damages. The fix was in!!!! The utility companies pay BIG bribes or so call campaign contributions. After legal bills I still only got about $750.

So after that I DON"T SIGN ANY easements. Plus I fight them tooth and nail if they try eminent domain. So far they have figured out that it is going to be costly to cross any of my land.

I bet the guys that say you will be paid well have never had any utility work done where they got crops destroyed. Plus destroying 120 foot wide strip just to install a 36 inch pipe. That is just plain wasteful in a year like this.

I would like to find out who made the decision to do that and put a 120 wide stretch across his land/yard/field. Then see how he liked it.

So I wish you luck but I bet that you will not like the out come of all of this. Keep us informed as to how it all works out.
 
local town got in bed with a judge here, put in 80 miles of gas pipe, just eminent domained entire farms, put in the pipeline as they went where they wanted, no planning, never did pay for crop damage - told the renters it was included in the money given to the landowners - which it wasn't. Think the checks went out 3 years after the pipeline....

Hope you do better.

--->Paul
 
One thing is I don't understand the opposing opinion posted in response to this thread. It makes no logical sense regardless of the landowner, purpose of the land, to haphazardly allow an industrial entity to run rampant, to not plan better, to not design better and to not survey for the most logical solution.

The installers of that pipe are absolutely going to do everything in their power to take the easiest route, its more productive, (feet per day is the high priority for them) clean land is less costly to install pipe in and takes less time.... Ok, anyone would agree that that makes sense, but...... given what is shown in the photo, any intelligent land owner, I don't care who you are, what your background is, and what you do with your land, would have to recognize an alternate route, away from good agricultural ground.

Once an industrial entity has taken over a site and has rights to it, you are hard pressed to have any mobility to react to any rough shod actions by them, say by virtue of their business on the site that transverses through your land.

I know with the power company locally, it could go either way, but, I commend them on how they do their work. NYS DEC is a stickler for environmental issues and concerns. They recently did a sizeable project through this placer and are currently doing an extensive project through our other place. Both projects mind you, have been executed carefully, with strict adherence to NYS DEC and other considerations, landowners contacted and everything was done with a cooperative effort by all parties, from power company officials, representatives down right to the guys in the field and I can name one from Asplundh, Ben who was absolutely a pleasure to work with on all aspects. The line crew was a little rough, they need feet per day and don't stop to smell the roses, but knowing that the forestry outfit follows them and makes sure things are right in the end. NYS DEC compliance here was excellent, I told the DEC rep that myself, having dealt with contractors most of my life, I told them they are doing a good job on this land next to a 20 acre wetland and it kept a watchful eye from further in depth scrutiny. Industry can work, but it has to start at the beginning.

Or, if that alternate route is in fact not possible, well people..... what options do we have to get the job done, we can put a man on the moon, but we can not find a solution for this dilemma ?


Well first off there needs to be a scope of work written for the installer to adhere too, at the behest of a diligent landowner, sad to think people still see money and absolutely nothing else and would not do this. Some of things contained in that scope of work would be compensation for existing crops. Another aspect would be future crops, losses associated with the lower yields and lesser quality. During the installation, they are obviously going to excavate. Ok, so why is it not possible to strip and properly stockpile top soils, securing it for the restoration work later. Bring in some additional topsoil to supplement. You strip where the pipe excavation is, and along it for the pipelayers, trucks and what have you. Pipe is set, its backfilled, if excavation spoil is not suitable for back fill, what options are there, export from site, screen it, use what is suitable, import additional or supplementary fill etc. Pipe is eventually back filled. I would be concerned about compaction next so why could not the limited ag areas be subsoiled, pipe is located, and just done in the ag fields. Next you place the topsoil, grade and plant a cover crop to hold it. Not necessarily in the above order, or exactly as stated, but I absolutely do not understand why this could not be done, I don't want to hear about hardship or additional cost by a gas producer, because these additional work items will not harm their profitability in any way, they would not be in there if it was marginal, they are going to make good money and the upfront costs to install the infrastructure will be defrayed by same and hardly noticed when done, its the same in construction.

I have worked on 36" pipe, set in the ground through some of the worst conditions, I know what it takes and what goes on. In '91 a 70 mile 36" line was set east west through NY and crosses the NY state thruway, I worked on several sections of it, on log matts hauling suitable backfill. I have done countless miles of water main through similar conditions and have done the restoration work, foreman always selected me because of the work I did.

We need to be smart about this, it does not mean you need to oppose it, it does mean you need to get off your @ss and use the intelligence given to you, even if its been collecting dust for a long time and keep industry in check about land use.

Look at Europe, and how residential areas are segregated from ag land, and that ag land is expansive, now most of us are used to a farmstead layout and it would be difficult to even consider living off site, but it works for them, and the point is that ag land to them is recognized as extremely important, or it would not be so and that is my point excactly, does not mean people need to follow that model, but they should show the same concern for the land that does produce agricultural crops.

The problem is people don't see far enough ahead, and they should based on numbers alone, population increases should drive that, but at the moment, there is no problem and its human nature to just muddle along until the last minute, and by then it will be too late or be of grave consequence, you either pay now or pay dearly later on !
 
I only know what I have experanced haveing farmed under power lines and over pipelines for 45 years. The landowner gave certain rights to the companies when they sold the easement, maning probly no compensation. The tenant signed no agrement so they get compensated for loses. They will need to see your contract. The County agent did the apprasal. I have been happy, not so much the landlord.
 
A few years ago they went through two of my farms with a 12" gas pipeline.They paid in advance for several thousand dollars worth of crops they were going to distroy.A few weeks later the pipe welders went on strike.By the time the strike was over i had the crops harvested.
 
The point is this EVERYTHING we use roads,electric,gas and oil has to get somewhere and along the way it had to cross land someone has to let it thru my experience has been they will take care of the owner in the end if he didnt get a correct agreement its his fault. Ive been around pipe lines electric and so forth and the companies have always been more that fair according to the contrac. Someone let the road go or how could we get there and the list goes on the writing is on the wall we will need more things and there will be new pipelines and electric lines built like it or not.
 
I would agree with that, where I live now, they needed to build a road or should I say improve the existing one which was really just a path on an old and small ag field, one that did have some lush soils. By deed alone the owner has to afford access, and that was done by the owner of the place when they bought their 175'-0" wide swath of land to place high voltage power lines in the 1930's. Power company rep came to the house, we reviewed the plans and when the initial crew mobilized on site, I coordinated and cooperated with them about the location of the road to their land, I used my best judgment and it was "sighted in" as I laid it out and as would also work for them. We had an existing farm road, almost adjacent to the field and bisecting their land, but it was cut higher up the slope and would have require more substantial site work, though it was between fields, and actually has the least grade change over length, but still did not make sense given the widening needed. My direct involvement assured it was done satisfactorily with all things considered and some compromise, yes I would have like them to stay off the field, not feasible. At this time the road they built still exists, however it is my option and prerogative to restore the road and the area near the tower they built to ag land, they still need and have access, maybe they would have to revert back to a road again, an additional cost and though it was already in place, still an option to use that field and get use of just about all of it that was existing before any of this was done.

When they built the section of road to the tower foundation, perpendicular to the access road the topsoil was stripped, when restoration was done, some was put back as they only reduced the width of that section around the tower, so the remaining was left for future use, and all of it (land around the tower) could be put back as was and utilized as ag land. Power company is not going out of business, in this case there was excellent cooperation, I could have raised a lot of problems for them from the very beginning, being within 150 wetland buffer, but was not interested in that, it was more important making sure the job was done with care to the land so as not to destroy or damage it in trade for new, improved power distribution. It can be done without much sacrifice, I mean nothing is perfect but you sure can minimize the impact it has on your land.
 
I've seen both sides from an arrogant foreman on a pipe crew that did nothing but pi55 of the landowner and ended up
costing the power company more that it had to pay to some of the drilling crews in Western Oklahoma that were
professionals and a pleasure to deal with. Friends of our family fought an easement coming across their farm,
eventually found out they couldn't stop it but could control it. After nine months of haggling he got the pipeline
easement written that they had to work when the field was bare or pay agreed damaged BEFORE they worked and nothing
could protrude above the ground. Unfortunately the pipeline company forget about the conditions of their easement and
leased it to another utility company for a power line. The transmission company ended up buying an easement around
this farm. I wonder how long before our local governments figure out how much energy flow through these pipe lines and
put an ad-volrum (property) tax on the easement. It would be taxing someone that can't vote for them- they really love
that.
 
It aint the end of the world, you will farm it next year. Sometimes things like this happen in the name of progress. When I was younger I watched the Federal Government take almost 200 acres of a farm my Dad and Grandpa owned that bordered the Arkansas River for the McClellan-Kerr navigation project. They fought it in court for years, but lost. My Dad offered them flowage easements at no cost. They had to have it lock, stock, and barrell. Still has not been covered by water and that was almost 50 years ago. This is still something that irriates me. Like I said you will farm it again. We won't!!
 
know how you feel,just put the fifth one accross my place,and it seems like each one takes a bigger bite.
 
I wouldnt wish a pipe line on my worst enemy.




























I wouldnt wish a pipeline on my worst enemy.Two 36 in lines,14ft deep ruined my families best vegetable land,they did pay for the crop but now only bahia grass is all that will grow on the land.When we sold the farm we only got 1/3 of the price for the easment.
 

Gene, Gene, Gene...

tisk tisk... that's your point, not mine!

My point is that seeing my fields having a mowed strip through them is sickening. Seriously.

At the time, I didn't know I'd get paid, nor did I care.

I talk to you a long long time ago at length at a show. If memory serves me right you are originally from New Jersey, you worked for an aerospace company for a long time, though you said you had to reloacte often because of it. You ended up in Colorado, or you bought the tractor in CO, I can't remember much although I was paying attention! Then you said you retired in Wellman or Wellington Iowa. You had a Farmall BN we were talking about. it was a really nice tractor.

You said you were about the same age as my dad, and you were a complete gentleman to talk to. I hope I am remembering correctly that was you.

At any rate, I can completely understand if you were confused about my original post. At your age, I'm sure you can't remember much!! HAHAHA (That's more of a dig on my dad who reads this) People his age should be kept away from anything sharp or dangerous! You could hurt yourself!


You know I kid because I care! hahaha


But, regardless, everything has to come from somewhere, and I get it... We aren't talking about public interest, we are talking about a private enterprise that stands to make billions from the sale of gas! God love them if they do. I really support all that whole heartedly. I'm just shocked at how they are like a $2 hooker. wham, bam, thank you ma'am. I wish I was mentally prepared to see that.

Gene, how are things out your way? Last time I was out there, it looked like mostly square fields in teh bottoms, some strips on the higher land, but, for all intents and purposes, it was all nice looking farmland.


I'm a minority where i'm from. I told you that years ago. My farm is a tiny chunk surrounded not by more farms, but by urban sprawl and industry. Should I just except the fact that I should be overtaken by private industry without compensation? Or, better yet, should I come out to Iowa and buy a nice tract of land equal to what I have now? My acres are sh*t compared to what you have around you. I farm 823 acres, but only about 250 of that is tilable. The rest is steep, wooded, wet, or a combination of all three.

The main point I make is that no matter how much I do, or how much I prepare, there is always going to be something else getting in my way. We are more of a european governing rule, than USA. We can't do anything without approval, including farming. If I want to til up a field, I can, but, if the township votes that am creating a burden for the hundreds of others around it, I have to reseed and try again. I could be in litigation for years of crop harvest just to try getting a good 8 months of use froma plot.


Like I said, I thought I knew you to be from NJ, and IA and all places in between. I would have thought you would have run into this along the way. I'm glad you are doing good. Hope the BN is getting some use in shows and parades. You are one heck of a guy and I will never forget you.

Thanks,
John
 
(quoted from post at 10:22:09 08/05/12) I HOPE you get paid for the crop. I had a natural gas line put in on a farm I farmed 20 years ago. It was a local delivery line. They tore up the out side six rows of corn clear across the front of the farm and down one side. A total of 1 1/2 miles of road frontage. They assured me that they would pay me for my crop. They even had a local guy hired to go around and tell us how "good" they would treat us.

My "BIG" corn check from them was $189 dollars. Yes that is right $189. That was for about 2.5 acres of corn. I had the ASCS come out and chain measure the damaged amount. So to them my corn was worth $75 per acre. Plus I had to cross a fresh trench to access any of the fields. They did this in Sept. So with Oct. harvest all of the dirt was fresh. I broke two different wagons that fell into the un-compacted trench.

I sued the company that did the trenching work and the local utility for damages. I won at the local court level then they appealed to the state court. The court upheld the ruling BUTTTT they reduced the damages. The fix was in!!!! The utility companies pay BIG bribes or so call campaign contributions. After legal bills I still only got about $750.

So after that I DON"T SIGN ANY easements. Plus I fight them tooth and nail if they try eminent domain. So far they have figured out that it is going to be costly to cross any of my land.

I bet the guys that say you will be paid well have never had any utility work done where they got crops destroyed. Plus destroying 120 foot wide strip just to install a 36 inch pipe. That is just plain wasteful in a year like this.

I would like to find out who made the decision to do that and put a 120 wide stretch across his land/yard/field. Then see how he liked it.

So I wish you luck but I bet that you will not like the out come of all of this. Keep us informed as to how it all works out.

They are giving me teh run around right now. They are not answering phone calls, or emails... this looks like a slippery slope, but I am going to go head first onto it. If I break my neck and die, I'll be int he same place I was before it all happened... at teh mercy of Jesus...
 

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