Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
My dozer runs hor and I am using mostly water. Will it run cooler if I add antifreeze? Roy
- Thread starter Anonymous-0
- Start date
Justin SE IOWA
Member
Yes it will. The back of the antifreeze jug will tell you what mix ratio for the desired temp.
IMO, not likely if it's a fairly modern dozer with a water pump.
But it will run cleaner and without all the corrosion.
If it's running too hot, there's more likely a problem with blockage from sludge, bad water pump, bad thermostat or in some cases no thermostat at all. (coolant doesn't stay in the radiator long enough to cool down)
It would be interesting to see what you find is the cause!
But it will run cleaner and without all the corrosion.
If it's running too hot, there's more likely a problem with blockage from sludge, bad water pump, bad thermostat or in some cases no thermostat at all. (coolant doesn't stay in the radiator long enough to cool down)
It would be interesting to see what you find is the cause!
Goose
Well-known Member
I've never done a comparison, but I've heard an engine will run cooler with antifreeze.
On the other hand, when I was racing, we always just ran plain water with a wettening agent added. But--I had a cooling system worked out to where cooling was never a problem. With a 180 degree thermostat, we could run a feature race on a 90 degree evening and pull into the pits with the temp guage on maybe 185 while other cars pulled in overheated.
BTW, how's your thermostat?
On the other hand, when I was racing, we always just ran plain water with a wettening agent added. But--I had a cooling system worked out to where cooling was never a problem. With a 180 degree thermostat, we could run a feature race on a 90 degree evening and pull into the pits with the temp guage on maybe 185 while other cars pulled in overheated.
BTW, how's your thermostat?
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Check your rad cap. More pressure increases the boiling temp., but a bad cap will reduce it.
Okay, Im an electrical NOT a mechanical or thermo engineer so no warranty buttttttttt I was under the impression water has a higher coefficient of heat transfer then anti freeze, so YES water is more efficient at heat transfer so it will transfer more heat out of the liquid to the radiator (liquid to air heat exchanger) then anti freeze would.
HOWEVER I believe that anti freeze has another use/advantge in that it raises the boiling point moreso then if water alone was used and since boiling causes water vapor and steam which isnt as good of a heat conductor as water if she boils thats a baddddddddd thing THEREFORE anti freeze is superior as a coolant since it raises the boiling point
I THINK WATER IS BETTER FOR PURE HEAT TRANSFER BUT SINCE AFZ RAISES THE BOILING POINT THATS WHAT YOU (with proper 50 50 or whatever mix) need to use
Wheres a good mechanical or thermo engineer when needed lol Am I right or wrong???
John T
HOWEVER I believe that anti freeze has another use/advantge in that it raises the boiling point moreso then if water alone was used and since boiling causes water vapor and steam which isnt as good of a heat conductor as water if she boils thats a baddddddddd thing THEREFORE anti freeze is superior as a coolant since it raises the boiling point
I THINK WATER IS BETTER FOR PURE HEAT TRANSFER BUT SINCE AFZ RAISES THE BOILING POINT THATS WHAT YOU (with proper 50 50 or whatever mix) need to use
Wheres a good mechanical or thermo engineer when needed lol Am I right or wrong???
John T
MarkB_MI
Well-known Member
- Location
- Motown USA
"Cooler" or "less likely to boil over"?
ethylene glycol has a lower specific heat, so it's less effective at carrying heat than water. BUT a mix of water and glycol has a higher boiling point than straight water.
So it really gets down to what you mean by "runs hot". If your dozer boils over on straight water, it will probably boil over on an antifreeze mix, too. It will just do it at a higher temperature.
ethylene glycol has a lower specific heat, so it's less effective at carrying heat than water. BUT a mix of water and glycol has a higher boiling point than straight water.
So it really gets down to what you mean by "runs hot". If your dozer boils over on straight water, it will probably boil over on an antifreeze mix, too. It will just do it at a higher temperature.
water has a higher heat content--calories/degree/gram than ethylene glycol--therefore transfers heat more efficiently
the numbers on the bottle of antifreeze just show the boiling points for different % solutions
It appears you need to investigate your cooling system--does it need flushing, radiator need rodding, or bad thermostat, water pump, collapsed hose,etc
the numbers on the bottle of antifreeze just show the boiling points for different % solutions
It appears you need to investigate your cooling system--does it need flushing, radiator need rodding, or bad thermostat, water pump, collapsed hose,etc
I raced also goose, I ran antifreeze and a 28lb radiator cap with 40% reduction pulleys. I never ran as cool as you but always ran the antifreeze to increase the boiling point. 38 degrees advance on timing turning 7250 all night will build temp fast though. Always had water wetter in it, what did you use?
my cat was doing that, pulled the radiator and flushed out 25 lbs of mud out of the bottom. the bottom of the radiator tank unbolted and I was amazed at the crud in the tank. Flushed it and it hasnt over heated since. Still get chased off it by bees when I hit the wrong tree.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Thanks all you techs. This is an older AC HD10 dozer that is quite old. I have had it abnout 15 years and the radiator I am sure is sludged up. I will take the radiator to a radiator shop and have it cleaned out. Roy
The guys are correct, straight water is a better coolant. The pressure cap protects you against boiling, the antifreeze protects against freezing and adds corrosion inhibitor.
Clean out your cooling system, then run an antifreeze mix to reduce corrosion. You should run a diesel antifreeze if the engine is diesel to prevent cavitation.
Clean out your cooling system, then run an antifreeze mix to reduce corrosion. You should run a diesel antifreeze if the engine is diesel to prevent cavitation.
john in la
Well-known Member
John T you are correct. A 50/50 mix of antifreeze and water has a higher boiling point than pure water but it is only about 10 deg higher.
What makes a radtiator not boil over is mostly the pressure cap. A good 15 psi cap can raise the boiling point of water about 45 deg.
If his engine is over heating I would suspect a cloged system. If it is boiling over his pressure cap may be bad.
What makes a radtiator not boil over is mostly the pressure cap. A good 15 psi cap can raise the boiling point of water about 45 deg.
If his engine is over heating I would suspect a cloged system. If it is boiling over his pressure cap may be bad.
willie in mn
Well-known Member
Another viewpoint. Don't have any scientific research to back it up, just experience.
In the old days before cars had A/C, in the warmer climate a weak mixture was used.
While Uncle Sam had me stationed in Florida I was winterizing my car for the Christmas trip home, bought 3 gal of A/F, 9 quarts for the 50/50 mix plus some left for topping off. Parts store guy asked how many cars I had, said nobody there used more than 2 quarts, just in case of occasional frost.
In later years when A/C became popular, overheating was common problem. Remedy was 50/50 mix from the factory, theory was A/F had better heat transfer capacity.
That aside, I think that using straight water in an older machine has resulted in rust & scale buildup in radiator & block, reducing coolant flow & heat transfer. With a good cleaning straight water will probably be okay.
More than likely wrong, but that's my theory & I'm sticking to it.
Willie
In the old days before cars had A/C, in the warmer climate a weak mixture was used.
While Uncle Sam had me stationed in Florida I was winterizing my car for the Christmas trip home, bought 3 gal of A/F, 9 quarts for the 50/50 mix plus some left for topping off. Parts store guy asked how many cars I had, said nobody there used more than 2 quarts, just in case of occasional frost.
In later years when A/C became popular, overheating was common problem. Remedy was 50/50 mix from the factory, theory was A/F had better heat transfer capacity.
That aside, I think that using straight water in an older machine has resulted in rust & scale buildup in radiator & block, reducing coolant flow & heat transfer. With a good cleaning straight water will probably be okay.
More than likely wrong, but that's my theory & I'm sticking to it.
Willie
Stephen Newell
Well-known Member
It sounds to me like if you have been running mostly water you have a lot of rust in the system making the dozer run hotter. Antifreeze helps prevent corrosion as well as making the vehicle run cooler. You might be able to flush the system on site but more than likely you will have to take the radiator off and take to a radiator shop and have them vat it. Then from now on use 50/50 solution of water and antifreeze.
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
At above freezing temps pure water is best IF.................. If there are no dissolved minerals, the ph is balanced and oxygen is excluded,
Since those parameters are rarely met in industrial & commecial hot water/steam systems. There isn"t a hope that tap water is a good thing for your dozer.
As previously stated the engine and rad are lined with rust ; dirt and minerals which block the transfer of heat.
Mechanically and chemically clean the system . Oil contamination of coolant will lower heat exchange . It only takes a few drops to coat the surfaces..
Use distilled or demin water mixed with 50% quality antifreeze. The 50% antifreeze provides corrosion control. 10% antifreeze and/or tap water does not control corrosion.
Since those parameters are rarely met in industrial & commecial hot water/steam systems. There isn"t a hope that tap water is a good thing for your dozer.
As previously stated the engine and rad are lined with rust ; dirt and minerals which block the transfer of heat.
Mechanically and chemically clean the system . Oil contamination of coolant will lower heat exchange . It only takes a few drops to coat the surfaces..
Use distilled or demin water mixed with 50% quality antifreeze. The 50% antifreeze provides corrosion control. 10% antifreeze and/or tap water does not control corrosion.
Believe the specific heat capacity of water is higher than antifreeze. Would have to dig out one of the old manuals I had in college to be sure. If that is the case, water would carry transfer more heat than antifreeze. If you are having cooling problems, however there are other things that need to be addressed first, as suggested by other posters. And yes, you need antifreeze in order to reduce/prevent corrosion. I would start with a good flushing of the cooling system, maybe several flushes with radiator cleaners and water flushes. If parts of the coolant system can be accessed easily, disassemble and flush however you can.
Can you power wash the engine outsides? A layer of grease and dirt on an old engine (and what old one isn"t covered?) can trap a lot of heat.
Is there plenty of air flow off the fan over exterior of the engine?
Can you power wash the engine outsides? A layer of grease and dirt on an old engine (and what old one isn"t covered?) can trap a lot of heat.
Is there plenty of air flow off the fan over exterior of the engine?
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Just wanted to add Don't run straight Ethylene Glycol. I was told at service school it doesn't cool as effectively as a 50/50 mix and can damage your engine.
I am going to correct my earlier statement, a 50/50 mix of glycol will raise the boiling point from 212 to 225, so it does help more than I thought. Pure glycol has a specific heat of 1/2 of water, so you must move twice the amount of glycol as pure water to transfer the same amount of energy.
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
Most folk seem unaware that plain hot water is an
universal solvent and will eventually move just
about an metal or mineral to some other location.
Basic high school science or chemistry class.
For all distilled or de-ionized water costs . Why
do most people refuse to use it in batteries and
cooling systems?
universal solvent and will eventually move just
about an metal or mineral to some other location.
Basic high school science or chemistry class.
For all distilled or de-ionized water costs . Why
do most people refuse to use it in batteries and
cooling systems?
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