OT - I hate banks...

I've been trying for the past few weeks to get a loan for a used log truck. Just got the final verdict from my bank yesterday; I'm too young. "We can't loan you 40k for a used log truck that can pay for itself within a year because you're only 23 years old, but we can loan you 60k for a brand new jacked up diesel pickup. Or a new speed boat. Or a new quad. How about it?" grrrrrrr... :evil:

I have trouble seeing the logic in it. Just had to blow off some steam.

P.S. Hey Lyle, want to invest in a young punk wanting to go log hauling? :mrgreen:
 
Look at the resale of the Log truck , vs. the resale of the new truck. Big market for the Pickup , limited market for a 2nd hand log truck.....How's your Credit History ?
 
Like with other things you have shop around for a good bank. I
know if you were age it would be a lot easier to get a loan, but
just shop around and tell them what the last bank said and that
you are shopping for a new bank also. A logging truck can
generate a large amount of gross income.
Walt
 
Also look at it this way, What % will the new pickup depreciate in a year compared to the used log truck.
I would rather loan a 23YR. old money for a used log truck than a new pickup. Guess that is why I am not a banker
 
Try a credit union or two. Usually much easier to work with. Haven"t darkened a bank with my shadow for years.
 
i dont hate banks,wish i owned about 20! seriously though its easier to get money for a new truck simply because if something happens and they do get it back its easier for them to resale. put yourself in their position, and it makes it easier to understand. Im not saying its right but thats their thinking. heres a common scenario.they loan you the money for an old used truck.since its old and used it breaks down on you. since you need that truck to haul logs to make money you simply cant work ,without working you go belly up,they come get the truck and they are now the proud owners of a used broken down truck. for them ,and in many ways EVEN FOR YOU,the new truck is a much better option simply because you can concentrate on logging and MAKING money to repay your loan,instead of spending one or two days a week spending money repairing a truck you need to get paid. its not anything personal,its nothing really to do with age,its simply good buisness. now a older fellow who has 100,000 in the bank walks in ,they probably will give him the money,simply because if he defaults their going to take the money to repay the loan out of his account and he can take his broken truck and do as he pleases with it.
 
Way back in 1975 I was buying a 1973 Dodge Charger from a friend of mine, as he had a new Nova ordered. I called the bank, gave them the description and vin of the car. My friend wanted $2,000.00 for it. (I know, the good old days!). Bank looked it up, said no problem the car was valued higher than that. The day he was buying his new car, I was to give him the check for the Charger. Went to the bank that morning, was told we will loan you $1500.00. When I questioned them, they said it was standard practice to loan 75% of the cost. I reminded them I had called and it was all set. Still no budging on their part. I then asked if I had told them it was $2500.00 would they have loaned me the $2,000.00? Answer was yes, if you would have wanted to lie about the cost. I told them at least I would have had the money I needed, why didn't they tell me when I called what they would loan me? Walked out the door, went to the Credit Union. Told exactly the same story, got the full $2,000.00 and bought the car. Have been with Credit Unions ever since.
 
Yep,I did that 31 years ago. I was banking at one of those multi location huge banks where nobody had any authority. EVERYTHING had to go to the board and wait a few weeks. I got a line of credit aproved so I wouldn't have to wait and the manager STILL pulled the same stunt.
I went to a little single location State Bank,moved all my accounts and got the money to pay off the other bank plus the new money I needed. I'd probably be unemployed and flat broke right now instead of spending a lifetime self employed if I hadn't switched.
 
I've been with a credit union over 20 yrs. Wouldn't darken the door of a bank for any reason.

Good example: James used to bank at BOA. They're real goofy about depositing checks with multiple names. We got an insurance settlement for ice load damage to the roof of the tractor shed. Check had both our names on it. WE BOTH go into his bank to deposit the check to the farm account because we know they're hinky about checks with two names.

WE ARE BOTH standing there, with ID, signed off in their presence and they almost refused to deposit the check! Teller had to call some supervisor to get permission.

A bank refusing to give a loan or something, that's somewhat understandable, but giving people a hard time about depositing an insurance company check? GO FIGURE!

Here's another - James cashed in some CD's (big money) and took the CASHIER'S check to BOA to deposit it so he could invest elsewhere. AFTER he deposits the check, they inform him he can't have access to that money for 30 days. We were not happy.

He no longer has any accounts at BOA.
 
(quoted from post at 20:06:11 07/27/12) I've been trying for the past few weeks to get a loan for a used log truck. Just got the final verdict from my bank yesterday; I'm too young. "We can't loan you 40k for a used log truck that can pay for itself within a year because you're only 23 years old, but we can loan you 60k for a brand new jacked up diesel pickup. Or a new speed boat. Or a new quad. How about it?" grrrrrrr... :evil:

I have trouble seeing the logic in it. Just had to blow off some steam.

P.S. Hey Lyle, want to invest in a young punk wanting to go log hauling? :mrgreen:
Go to a smaller bank. :arrow:
 
the % of depriciation has absolutly NOTHING to do with it. what a bank looks at is first your ability to pay,then at whats going to happen if you DONT. a used logging truck has absolutly NO value whatsoever to a bank,neither does your home,your tractor,or anything else simply because they are not in the used truck,home or tractor buisness.anything that they have to repo for ANY reason is NOT IN ANY WAY AT ALL a asset. its listed and held on their books as a loss.every day that your repo'ed truck house or tractor is on their books is a liability to them if for no other reason than they are paying storage and taxes. the only way they can get it off their books is to sell it and this is even a greater loss because then they have to pay money as taxes on that money. this is simply banking laws and they have bank examiners there every month checking their books. some banks are more lenient than others but they all follow the same basic proceedure. A credit union on the other hand doesnt have as many rules. they are in the buisness TO loan money. and are covered for certain losses. a bank is there to take your money and keep it. acredit union is there to take your money and USE it. abank has to have assets in bonds and things to be able to give you your money on demand.a credit union on the other hand is not bound by such strict rules because its a credit institution.what money it loses on one deal it will make up on another. thats the difference.its the way the money changes hands , is reported,and is guaranteed that makes the difference.
 
I know what your saying about the banks. I had the same problem with starting my trucking company 12yrs ago. One thing I did was find a leasing company to work with. I found the truck and trailers told them how much,they sent there guy out to make sure everything was legit and they sent the checks. I leased the outfit for 5yrs with a 1$ buyout at the end and they handed me the titles. My second truck I bought I went to the bank and asked about interest rates and so on they pulled my report and said will a 100 grand work! I said only wanted 50 grand they said come back in morning it will be here.
 
i dont like them either, one thing i will mention as i made the mistake myself, when i went to buy the last kenworth i had, i went to the bank for a loan, as this bank was one of what i call a revolving door bank, one which seems to get bought and sold frequently, they didnt know me in there anymore, even though i had been doing business in there for 30 years, they didnt approve my loan since they had no recent record to go by, so i told them to kiss my a-- there not my only source of money, went to a private friend of mine, he is a multi millionaire, and ive known him all my life he has always made me a loan provided i can show him how i will pay it off, in the case of this truck, i had to show him if he loaned me the money ,the truck had a job, which it did, i paid the loan off in 3 years and was never late with a payment much less missed one, and drove the rig untill last year, with the economy the way it is and the feds and dot the way they are, it just isnt fun anymore and i wasnt making any money with it, but as the loan was a private one, guess what, that !@#$ bank still claims they dont know me, since that loan and its pay off didnt get on my record
 
You're wasting your time at any Canadian chartered bank looking for that type of loan. They don't want to loan money for new trucks either... at least not at a reasonable rate of interest. You can try a credit union but I doubt that they'll be much different.
Most forestry stuff is done through the loan sharks. Look in the truck trader for their adds. There's a couple in atlantic canada but I'm sure there would be several others in your area....

Rod
 
Have read all the comments and thinking about whether or not I wanted to reply.........I'd suggest trying a locally owned/independent bank, preferably where you already have a checking account, but......there may not be ANY bank that would make the loan. What do you have for collateral; probably no one is gonna loan you the full value......or even close to it......on a used truck. What's your credit score look like; high 700s/low 800s? I'm guessing not. What's your financial statement look like; $100,000 or so in the black? Forget the multi-billion/trillon dollar global banks; develop a relationship with a local bank and build on it; it takes time. Been married to a banker for 46-plus years.......who started as a note-teller in 1966 and is now the EVP/COO of a small, locally owned bank (w/footings of about 200 million) with only 4 locations/branches.
 
(quoted from post at 13:25:33 07/27/12) the % of depriciation has absolutly NOTHING to do with it. what a bank looks at is first your ability to pay,then at whats going to happen if you DONT. a used logging truck has absolutly NO value whatsoever to a bank,neither does your home,your tractor,or anything else simply because they are not in the used truck,home or tractor buisness.anything that they have to repo for ANY reason is NOT IN ANY WAY AT ALL a asset. its listed and held on their books as a loss.every day that your repo'ed truck house or tractor is on their books is a liability to them if for no other reason than they are paying storage and taxes. the only way they can get it off their books is to sell it and this is even a greater loss because then they have to pay money as taxes on that money. this is simply banking laws and they have bank examiners there every month checking their books. some banks are more lenient than others but they all follow the same basic proceedure. A credit union on the other hand doesnt have as many rules. they are in the buisness TO loan money. and are covered for certain losses. a bank is there to take your money and keep it. acredit union is there to take your money and USE it. abank has to have assets in bonds and things to be able to give you your money on demand.a credit union on the other hand is not bound by such strict rules because its a credit institution.what money it loses on one deal it will make up on another. thats the difference.its the way the money changes hands , is reported,and is guaranteed that makes the difference.

Like I said, that is why I am not a banker. In your example the bank has already determined his ability to repay or they wouldn't have offered him the other loans. % of depreciation SHOULD mean something. I would much rather worry about trying to sell something that had depreciated 10% instead of something that had depreciated 15%. But, what do I know??
 
Seeing you're on banks, you got some good responses, keep trying if its a business you really want to pursue, eventually you'll figure something out if its just the aged equipment thing, credit ok, business plan sound etc.

You want to have fun, just take a check drawn from a particular bank, preferably, not the branch its from, and try and CASH it !

Granted you bring good ID, 2 forms, really comical as to the response you'll get, I'll share 2 of my experiences below, have had many more just the same.

Don't y'all remember when you could do just that ? Mind you there are so many thieves that have caused the strict, policies the banks have now, its an example of how the innocent pays for what the criminals do.

I did try this a few years ago and was escorted out of the bank, had cashed checks there for a few months, even by the same woman who gave me the hassle about it. I know the branch manager, she was a good friend, can vouch I'm not a crook, my mother was one of her HS teachers, know these people for years, always took care of check cashing for me, say from customers I've done work for and regular paychecks if I needed too.

She was not there that morning, Pakistani woman, says you'll need another form of ID, gave her that, "No Sir" that is not acceptable, (whatever I had) She suggests I get a passport ! LOL !!! OK, fruit loop, the check is drawn from this bank, our payroll company is funded from this bank, your manager knows me, and I've cashed how many of the same checks here before, some at your window! What the heck ???? Passport eh ? How long you in this country ? I literally watched this bank being constructed when I was a kid, and the supermarket built next to it before that, and watched it close too, I've been here all my life, passport ? Really ? I live less than 1 mile down the road, and I gave you an enhanced drivers license that required several forms of ID and legitimate documents to be approved and accepted. All of this transpired calmly and politely, I just stood there waiting, she nods to some guy at a desk, he comes over, "Sir, I'm going to have to ask you to leave now, (exhibiting the protocol they are trained to diffuse potentially volatile situations) He proceeded to move his hand towards me and got a little too close. I turned and told him quite frankly, putting myself at a perfect distance to demonstrate my dislike for touchy bank employees, "I will now leave on my own accord, just touch me with that hand and I will own it, you will be embarrased. I then walked out, later I got a call from my friend the manager, told her it was nice knowing you all these years, have a nice life, never spoke to her again. She was upset at what I said to the person who directed me to leave, all to cash a darned check that I performed hard physical labor to earn, drawn from their bank, that they refused to cash.

I've been through it many times before, happened in NYC around the corner from the jobsite, darned ATM ate my card, could not get funds from another account for some reason, so I went to the bank, ID in hand, and check drawn from the same bank, sorry you have to have an account, we can open one right now, I said no, I need to cash this check, that is all, I don't even have enough fuel to get out of the city, food and other necessities, she said no, I said thats ok, can I speak with your manager, did that, added some colorful charm and he relented, their own stupid policies, you need an account, all a bunch of BS, I made my point with tact and the manager did the right thing and cashed the check, teller was overuled, but I had to push it to get it done. That alone just ticks me off, you cannot take a check to a bank its drawn from, and cash it, how ridiculous is that ?
 
To help you understand
a BANK exists first and foremost to SECURE your and the other depositors money. It does this by (a) buying by law us treasury bonds (b) making SECURE loans and (c) having a secure vault to hold valuables. Thats its primary function and this is why its often harder to get loans there. Its only allowed by bank examiners to have on loan at any time a small portion of the depositors money. Its not unheard of for a bank to tell you one day they cant help you ,and the next to call you and say come get your money,simply because folks paid off loans or they got a new depositor with lots of money. When they have to repo something it has to by law be reported as a loss(or held on the books in the negative side)Simply because they have taken the depositors money and basicaly gambled it away.

a CREDIT UNION is a horse of another color. Its there expressly TO loan money or extend credit. It simply takes the depositors(union members) money and guarantees credit to other union members. Since it exists mainly to extend credit, if someone defaults on a loan , anything (such as your used truck) thats repoed is allowed by law to remain on their books as an asset until its sold. And since they are not bound or held to such strict rules as a bank , that has to show its books every thirty days, its losses can be averaged out over a longer period of time and somewhat negated by other good loans. This is why quite simply its usually easier to get a loan at a credit union. They are simply allowed by laws to take greater risks.

all that being said ,i do (sort of ) hold to the banks way of thinking. Its my belief that if your starting out in a buisness such as your contemplating your better off with the best equipment possible even if your initial profits would be less. If you HAD to scrimp on equipment due to finances it should be on something less critical than a truck that if it failed would shut down your whole operation. But thats me,and my opinion only of course. I wish you luck and i applaud your willingness to go for it. I personally would try a credit union ,they are in a much better position to help you (especialy these days),And in a better position to work with you while your starting up.
 
Typical bank. When I needed them back in the day, applied for loans several times, they wouldn't loan money to me. They wanted assets, security etc, ok I get that, but if I had that what do I need you for. Pointless trying to reason with them.

Now I have assets, cash, and big credit card limits. I don't need a bank to loan me money.

My bank turns over new account reps so often that I get a new one in my office 3-4 times a year. I take great delite in explaining to them that the bank was not there for me when I needed them and I damn sure don't need you now.

Lyndon - AB, Work longer, harder and save up to pay cash for your logging truck. Find an owner operator wanting to sell out or add a truck and partner with him. In other words find a private investor.

It feels great to rub the banks nose in it when you don't need them.
 
what the bank is looking at, is a the year of the truck,and its vaue if they had to repo it,and sell it as soon as possible at any cost.due to the way the banking laws are set up any repo is a loss,no way around it. every day that they hold this and pay taxes storage etc is simply a greater loss.thats why often times a bank will not pay taxes on a piece of property and its sold for the taxes.since its not the BANKS money they loaned,but the investor/depositors and they didnt have any say in who gets a loan ,any unsecured loan is basicaly against the law.they by law should only loan money thats secured in some way. huge difference in whats allowed by a credit union or loan company and a bank. Its not that they simply do not want to loan you money,just that they have very strict rules they are supposed to follow.
 
There are no local banks in Canada.... at least in many areas. There hasn't been for the better part of 100 years... or mabey more to the point... since about the 30's. We've got 5 scedule 1 banks... The Royal (RBC), Bank of Nova Scotia, Toronto Dominion (TD), CIBC and the Bank of Montreal (BMO).
It's a rather different banking sector here than in the US.

Rod
 
I know what you mean, when I was a little younger I went into the bank I had been banking at for years to get a car loan. I was refused ecause I didn't have enough credit(I had refused to buy anything unless I had the money for it because I don't like to borrow). After this happened for several years I changed banks. The final straw was when I was refused another vehicle loan for $8000. The vehicle was valued for more, I had banked at the same place for 12 years with never going under the minimum balance or having an overdraft. This was also after working my way up from $7/hr at two jobs(1 full time 1 part time) to making $16/hr and with only a $300/month rent payment! I had enough after that, and when I went to close out my account they acted hurt that I didn't want to do business with them!
 
I bought my house when I was 24. At the time they said I didn't make enough for them to give me one mortage loan for the full amount but could do a first and second mortgage and get me what I needed. The difference.......the payment on one mortgage for the full amount was going to be something like $700 per month...the payment on a first and second mortgage together was going to be more like $900 per month. In other words my income was too low to pay $700 per month, in their opinion, but they had no problem with me paying $900 out of the same income. That's utterly stupid, and to make matters worse is that to some educated idiot setting behind a desk making decisions, it makes perfect sense.....Go figure....
 
Many years ago, I worked for Production Credit Assn.- we had started to make loans to commercial fishermen, and I had office hours once a week in Westport, WA, a little coastal fishing town.

Had a favorite place to eat there, and they took cash only. Didn't have any cash, so stopped at Seattle First National Bank to cash a check (I was not a Sea First customer). They absolutely refused to cash a check on a different bank, for a non-customer.

So I opened a savings account, with a check for $10. Then I withdrew $5 in cash, and went to lunch. Then came back after lunch, and closed out my account. They weren't very happy, but were prisoners of their own goofy rules.

I do all my banking at a regional bank- very easy to deal with, have 2 lines of credit, 3 checking accounts, and a savings account. They manage to keep everything straight, and give excellent customer service.
 
I can't speak for trucks but the logging industry has a reputation of being very hard on equipment. I know it is very difficult for anyone to get a loan on a log skidder that is over two years old. Too much potential of hidden problems.
I don't think the problem you, it is an industry issue.
 
Only one problem with your take on a bank's reasoning when it comes to equipment. A man can go out right now and buy an older, used D6 dozer in good shape for say $25,000. With typical equipment loan it will need to be paid off in 5 years regardless of the price. During that 5 years any problems with the machine, etc, etc can be repaired with the money left over that is not being spent on paying back a loan on a $225,000 machine that will be doing the same work. For extra $200,000 saved, if needed, the man with the old D6 can have the engine, transmission, TQ, final drives, undercarriage, etc, etc, etc all rebuilt and wind up with a new machine that will last as long, and probably longer than the brand new machine, which nowdays have a design life of around 10 years. Which makes more sense, buy an older machine, repair it when and if it needs it and wind up with more than $50,000 left in you pocket, even if you have to do a total rebuild, and have a maching that might be 30 years old but will last another 30.....or buy a new one for $250,000 and know it's going to need repairs that are going to cost twice as much as those to an older machine when needed, and have a piece of problematic, electronic junk that's just sitting there needing replacement in 10 or so years??????

To those of us with any common sense it's a no brainer..... unfortunately most bankers know nothing about equipment and fall for, and spew forth the same line of BS that is fed to consumers every day....'everything old is junk amd if it's not new it's not worth anything'. Heck a car dealer on the radio around here is advertising about trading in your 'junk car' and how you can do it even if your still making payments. The whole gist of the add is if it's not new, it's junk....even if it's not even old enough to be paid off........
 
one other thing to keep in mind,if your in a largely farming /cattle raising area. This current drought is going to make banks hold on to their available loan money very tightly. Deposits accross the board are going to be way down byall accounts. And this makes loan money even for long time users hard to get simply because as deposits go down so does available loan money.Just because theres simply less money allowed by law to be loaned. Anything over that limit is totally the banks/banks owner(s) money,and it can quickly make or break a bank. It wouldnt hurt a thing if you are in one of these affected areas to stop in now and have a talk with your banker if your going to have to borrow money for seed and things. Things like this effects folks even though they are far removed from the farm more than they realize. you can pretty much bet that money for luxury items is going to be tighter as we get more crop reports over the next few days and weeks.
my opinion of course....
 
no, lets use your own figures ,that old machine is worth the 25000,NOT the 250,000 to a banker. if thats the current asking price,a rebuilt machine is still in their reconing a 25000 dollar machine,simply because they are not in the equipment buisness.they have to sell it as quickly as possible to get it off the books.if they look in a book or at the market and the majority of the machines are selling for 25k thats the price they go by. speciality machines or ones of special user value has no bearing on the price.if you borrow 250K for a new machine,take that money and buy a older 25K machine your liable to go to jail if you cant produce one if worst came to worse.
 
I had a similar problem back in 1982 Couldn't borrow $12,000 dollars to buy 40
acres across the road from my folks, three months later I could sign my name and
get a $10,000 dollar Ford Pick-up, trucks been gone for 20 years, bet the land is
still there

Wife and I try to buy our first house loan is a no-go because she had "bad credit"
HOWEVER if I applied by myself at another bank I could get financed for the full
amount (VA Loan). Here's the clincher- I was stationed in Florida, the way Florida
community property laws were the first night she spent with me in that house she
had 1/2 of it no matter if her name was on the loan or deed.
 
Yup, you want used equipment loans here you're in for a fight. Secured lines of credit work but are a pain for tax purposes unless you only have one piece of equipment on it.

If you have a really good relationship with the bank and sit down with your books and business plan, they might talk, but you'd better have a bunch of assets with them.
 
Drive for someone else for awhile, save your money. Then buy your own truck, too many banks lost their a$$ lending to people that really couldn"t afford what they wanted to buy. New vehicles are a different story, they have collateral with insurance on it.
 
Its their $$$ I guess they can lend it to whomever they want,they're pretty loose with their money really as I know some folks that have gotten various loans I wouldn't give lunch money to if I expected it back.
 
Interesting you should mention the old Production Credit Association.

Back in the 1970's, I borrowed money from the PCA to build a stock car. A buddy of mine bet me $20 I couldn't do it.
 
I bought a brand new Ford Ranger in1985,my first new vehicle. I went home happy and waited on the payment book. Didn"t come,called the bank and they had no record of the account # I went round and round with these people,lasted about 5 months. Finally I was talking about it with a guy at work,lo and behold his wife worked at a branch, two weeks later had an account # and the payment book.
Couple weeks after that they came after me for late charges. Yeah right!
 
Thanks for all the support, guys. I'm going to the local credit union next week, and have a contact with a good loan broker. One of them should be willing to play ball. I hope. I'm just mad at my own bank, that my family has dealt with for decades, turned me down, when I was willing to put up as much or more asset in collateral than the log truck's value. As well as the log truck itself.

And I agree with you NCWayne. Having a pre-emission truck and rebuilding it again and again will put me ahead of a new truck in the long run. Less downtime during go-hard season due to finicky emissions crap. And I can fix it myself. I wish the bank understood why an N14 is better than a 2012 urea + DPF ISX in so many ways.
 
It's a business deal. If you can't pay for it and the bank has to sell the log truck, well, who else needs a used log truck and can they recover the money?

But now a nearly new truck, speed boat, or ATV, well they can find all sorts of nimrods that will want to borrow more money to take one of those on.

Gene
 
Tried to borrow some money from local bank when we
were young, just married a few years. Banker knew
wife's folks real well. Asked me how I got along
with my inlaws, if they would co-sign. I said I get
along very well and going to keep it that way. Went
to a loan co., paid double interest but made it .
 
I hate to burst your bubble, but you wont
pay for a $40000 truck in one year. There
WILL be more repair expenses than you
expect. Bankers are very leery of lending
for a truck. Jim
 
when my son was five he got a check for 5 or 10 dollars from grandma for his birthday. My wife took it to the cedit union to cash it (we have accounts there). They wouldn't cash it because he didn't sign it. My wife explained that he was only five. Didn't matter. If I had been there I would have closed all accts on the spot!
 
...particularly a log truck in the present forestry sector that is contracting as quickly as we can exhale.

Rod
 
Simple to do, she signs his name and in parentheses she signs her name which indicates she signed the document. Never has been a problem before; perhaps some consolidated/mega-banks that don't know their customers are becoming "touchy".
 
The problem with banks is that you have to owe
money in order to get money. Had you previously
had 4 different vehicle/equipment loans and a
mortgage, they would have loaned you the money in
an instant! I always paid cash for everything but
when I needed a new truck in 1987, the bank said I
hadn't had a loan in a long time so would need a
co-signer. I ended up going through Ford credit
and needed a smaller down payment and the interest
was only about .5% more with no co-signer. After I
paid the truck off, they sent me a letter stating
I had $25,000 instant credit for a new vehicle.
 
I'm not saying to get a loan for the $250,000 machine and buy a $25,000 machine. What I'm saying is that if the people in charge knew their head from a hole in the ground when it came to many of the items they were asked to loan on they would have to change their whole way of thinking. Look at it this way, what would you rather have on your books in the way of a defaulted loan, a portion of $25,000 or an even larger portion of $250,000. Granted equipment tends to hold it's value, but just like a new car, a $250,000 machine is going to lose alarge porton of it's value within the first year while a $25,000 machine is going to retain it's value. How do you think guys buy a machine to clear their land and then resell it for exactly what they bought it for? heck if a major repair like an engine or transmission rebuild was done you can often get at least a portion of that cost back, over and above the origional purchase price, if you find the right buyer.

What it comes down to is like I said, anybody with a grain of sense about equipment knows a deal when they see it, they don't have to look at a book to know what they are looking at. On the other hand the people in charge of giving the loan, to help those guys get the deal, only know how to read a book, and as such do not have a clue, and are nothing but what my Great Grandma used to call an 'educated idiot'...........
 
Do you have 20-30% for a down payment??? If you can do that do you have operating capitol left to get going with?? Can you afford a few months with out any income from the log truck??? If you answered no to any of those three questions then the bank is doing you a favor.

They don't want to loose money so they really want you to succeed. If you answered no to any of the questions that I asked about then your chances of making it are small. So you are too much of a risk to lend their money too.

Did you have a written business plan??? They would want to see a projected income and expenses for the next year. Real numbers too. You can't show you are going to be working 52 weeks each year and making top money each week. Make it as real time as you can. It may also show you that what you are wanting to do will not work. If may show a good profit and then you can use that to help your cause. If you just walked in and said I want to buy a log truck an here is what I need to go buy it. You would have gotten a no at just about any bank in the USA.

I have seen 30-40 guys in my life time that wanted to drive truck and make big money. Around me it is dump trucks and grain haulers. They all think that they are going to hit it big. So they just pay their fuel bill and make payments. They live high on the hog with what is left. The first set of tires, transmission repair, engine rebuild, etc. they are broke and the bank is foreclosing on a non running truck.

I see that you are in Alberta. You are wanting to buy a truck in late summer. When it the prime work time??? I would think that with winter just around the corner you are getting started late for this year. Also the log industry is a boom or bust one. They can be flying high and crash an burn in just days.

I was on the local bank's loan board for ten years. I would not want to lend to a start up business that is seasonal unless they had some real good equity in the deal.

Plus the banks down here are really getting looked over by the government. Loans they would have made just a few years ago are now a no go.

So save up some more money and work toward a goal of buying one in the future. There will be more for sale. You are young. So a history of stability for a few more years will help your cause a lot too.
 
NCWayne. The problem you are talking about on that old machine is that it will break down right when you need to be working the most. Then you are losing twice. The money to repair it and the lost income. Banks have gotten burnt too many times on this old stuff that breaks down and the guy goes belly up because he has no income. Then the bank is selling the equipment at salvage price.

In the construction world I have seen more successful guy with good newer equipment than guys with older stuff. The old stuff just breaks down an then it sets there.
 
Looking at it from the bank's point of view, they have to weigh their odds. Your age is but one factor, but it's a big one because you haven't had time to build up a credit history.

Assuming they'll loan you money for a new pickup truck, it's because they have had good experience with borrowers with similar credit ratings who buy similar vehicles. They're assuming you'll keep your current job, which must pay pretty good. And if you default, they can repossess your vehicle and be able to sell it for pretty close to what you owe against it. They know exactly what the vehicle is worth because it's brand new (which is why loan rates are lower for new vehicles than used ones), so assuming you take care of the vehicle they have a good idea of its future value if you default.

Now take a look at the picture with the truck. Right off the bat it seems you're quitting your job and starting your own business. About half of new businesses fail in the first two years. So the probability you'll default is high, even if you have good credit. Any used vehicle is hard to put a value on, and used trucks are harder. Specialized vehicles are harder still, and logging trucks tend to get very rough service. So the bank is looking at a prospect where the probability is high that they'll be stuck trying to repossess and sell a vehicle that's worth a small fraction of the remaining loan principal. And I wouldn't be surprised if some of the bankers have had previous bad experiences with similar loans. It would only take one time where he had to retrieve a heavy-duty truck from a swamp, only to find the truck has a blown engine and bad transmission, to permanently sour a banker on loans to log haulers.

Next time a bank rejects you, ask the loan officer to explain what you need to do improve your future prospects. Your age is but one factor.
 
One thing to think about.
I know of a home builder that wanted to buy a track of land say 40 acres. But they need 1 million dollars to buy the land. So....A bank will not loan him the money so they go to a wealthy investor, also known as a venture capitalist. A legal document is drawn up that says if the builder defaults on the repayment of the 1 million the venture capitalist gets the 40 acres. The guy loaning the money usually gets paid back the 1 million with 15% return in 1 or 2 years. And a subdivision is put in and the builder makes his money. Isnt capitalism a great thing. You need to find a wealthy uncle.
 
My cousin wanted to borrow $10,000 about 10 years ago. He had been building a log cabin and was getting married in a few months. The money was to finish trim out on the cabin, so it would be complete when he and his wife moved in.

The first bank he went to would not loan him the money because he had no credit history, never had a loan or a bank account. Although he did have 200 acres of land with a barn and a 3000 sq ft cabin that was 95 percent complete sitting on it. Also had another 30 acres with a mobile home that he was living in. All of this, as well as his 4 year old pickup were paid for. He never had a checking account because he paid cash for everything.

The next bank he went to listened to this and not only loaned the $10k, they offered more. He borrowed the $10,000, paid it back in less than a year and has been banking there every since.
 
JD you definitely know what its like in the the real world. One small example is the fuel bill. My son is an owner operator hauling feed 12 hours a day. Its short haul stop and go all day. His fuel bill is $5000 per week. New fan clutch was $900. New compressor head $350. Then there was the air dryer, the blown tire, and on and on. You know all about it. Jim
 
I may be cynical, but I'm convinced bankers become bankers because they're too dumb to get a real job somewhere else.

A friend of mine had a couple of rough years at farming and the president of his bank convinced him to quit farming. So he did. Then a year later when some notes came due at the bank, the same president couldn't understand why my friend didn't have any farm income to pay on the notes.

On a personal note, I chaired the Board of Trustees for our church for five years a few years ago. In that capacity I sat in on the Foundation Board meetings as an advisor. The twelve person Foundation Board was populated at least half by bankers and bank employees. The Foundation Board was sitting on $3.5 million dollars and were TOTALLY clueless about maintaining the infrastructure of a 3,000 member church that included a K-8 school and a separate Child Development Center.

The CDC building had a mold problem. The Foundation owned the building and rented it back to the CDC. I had a professional engineering company do an evaluation of the building. Their report concluded the mold problem was caused by the mansard roof. Snow would pile up on the north side of the south slope of the mansard, and because of protection from the sun, the snow would turn to ice and when it did melt moisture would infiltrate the building through the eaves, find it's way to the basement, and create mold.

The Director of the CDC and I had an architect draw up plans to replace the mansard roof with a sloped roof to eliminate the problem. We formally tendered the proposal to the Foundation Board.

The Foundation Board had the shingles replaced on the mansard and bragged about how nice the building looked. I threw up my hands.

Didn't mean to get long winded, but I related this to reinforce my opening statement.
 
When you are 40 years old, you will have all the stories. A Bank is a
bank, most have the same rules, It's the lender, you have not found.
Never say hate, In business you may need this person, again some
time somplace, leave with good intentions, of finding your goal.
Someone always discovers a diamond in the RUFF. Keep your goal
in mind. Never defert from plans, that are solid. prove you can.The
world will see,
 
yes thats a problem,we live in a credit driven society these days. If youve never used credit your simply a non entity often times. Most folks dont know it but the fastest way to build credit is to simply apply for every credit card you can and throw them in a drawer somewhere.if you have ten and they havea $100 limit each ,according to your credit report your worth $1000. If youve never used it and have a million sitting in the bank its harder to get credit,crazy if you ask me,but thats how it works these days.I knew a old guy who was literaly crazy about paying bills and things on time and stuff. I mean he would be waiting at the mail box and if he got a bill he would walk straight to his car drive down and pay it in cash that instant. If the place was closed he honestly could not sleep until it was paid. It was some kind of a mental problem he had.This guy had lots of money,in several banks,and always carried 15-20K in his pocket. He had no credit whatsoever anywhere,he simply didnt have any credit history. His credit report was 0. His banker who happened to be my brother and knew him well,tried to convince him to take out a loan,sign the papers then just transfer money to pay it off the same day.would cost him literaly nothing in intrest.as far as the public ,stores, banks and things were concerned this guy was worth less than a bum on the street.simply because he didnt have wealth on paper somewhere.
 
No, she had to go home and have HIM sign it! She was NOT allowed to sign it. I'm not "touchy" just relating a story
 
bankI deal with won't post a depositted check for 24hrs. but you can cash the check turn right around and deposit the cash and it's in your account --stupiddddd!
 
(quoted from post at 06:10:13 07/28/12) One thing to think about.
I know of a home builder that wanted to buy a track of land say 40 acres. But they need 1 million dollars to buy the land. So....A bank will not loan him the money so they go to a wealthy investor, also known as a venture capitalist. A legal document is drawn up that says if the builder defaults on the repayment of the 1 million the venture capitalist gets the 40 acres. The guy loaning the money usually gets paid back the 1 million with 15% return in 1 or 2 years. And a subdivision is put in and the builder makes his money. Isnt capitalism a great thing. You need to find a wealthy uncle.

Its called a hard money loan around here. Used to be good money in loaning to the house flippers for 12%. The money gets spread out as the rehabber needs it, that way if the flipper goes under he dont have a boat load of your money and you end up with a mold house. You get your money back when the house sells or in 12-18 months. If the flipper dont sell the house right away, he gets a conventional loan and pays you back.

You can get a hard money loan on equipment as well.
 
Didn't intend to imply you were at fault, endeavored to implicate banks that aren't particularily customer focused. Even after relocating to a completely new area many years ago wouldn't have had her difficulties. Perhaps the key is "many years ago" and such action would no longer wouldn't be easy here.
 

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