Author	[Modern View]
Mike_Lubbock 07-26-2012 15:47:22 75.254.226.254 Report to Moderator	I have a farmall super c that is in use and not a show tractor. The tracor has the original oil bath air cleaner. Instead of using that, I wanted to possibly attach a K&N type filter directly to the carb or run some pvc pipe to a decent location. Is this a good idea or are such filters not good to use becuase of blowing dirt from plowing, shredding, etc.? [Reply]   [No Email]
chucksoliver77 07-27-2012 13:25:22 71.0.104.93 Report to Moderator	Re: oil bath upgrade in reply to George Marsh, 07-26-2012 15:47:22   mike, heres the deal on the K&N filters. they are made up with 4 to 6 layers of a special cotton gauze sandwiched between 2 aluminum wire mesh layers and the gauze is coated with K&N filter oil. there is no paper in these filters. because these filters flow so much air you will probably will pick up a couple horses and use less fuel too. i have used one on my 77 for years in all kind of conditions and when i take it off to clean it the carb intake is always shiny clean. just my 2 cents, chuck [Reply]  [No Email]
JDB 07-27-2012 11:08:56 216.243.209.236 Report to Moderator	Re: oil bath upgrade in reply to Mike_Lubbock, 07-26-2012 15:47:22   Iupgraded my Cade DC to a paper element a few years ago. I got it from McMaster-Carr. It was made by Soldberg and is made for engines. I had to weld it to a pipe and paint it orange. Search for Case DC in the photo's section of this site to see it. I would stay away from K&N [Reply]  [No Email]
GVSII 07-27-2012 10:30:45 74.71.178.71 Report to Moderator	Re: oil bath upgrade in reply to Mike_Lubbock, 07-26-2012 15:47:22   Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see That wouldn't be an upgrade. [Reply]  [No Email]
mkirsch 07-27-2012 10:03:36 64.80.110.75 Report to Moderator	Re: oil bath upgrade in reply to Mike_Lubbock, 07-26-2012 15:47:22   Paper filters are standard now because they are easier to maintain. You just ignore it until the tractor won't run anymore, then change it. [Reply]  [No Email]
hd6gtom 07-27-2012 07:14:38 75.170.237.148 Report to Moderator	Re: oil bath upgrade in reply to Mike_Lubbock, 07-26-2012 15:47:22   Think about this, why does the military use dry paper air filters in everything that runs in the sandy soils of the mid east? WHY, because extensive testing shows the paper air filters actually do a better job of cleaning the air than anything else. Do you see a oilbath air cleaner on any of the $200000.00 tractors today, why not? Because the farm tractor industry has also done extensive testing and found a $40.00 air filter is far better than 1920's tec. I've just spent 6000.00 to have an engine overhaul and I will gladly spend $40.00 for an air filter to protect that investment. [Reply]  [No Email]
jackinok 07-27-2012 06:38:32 162.58.82.136 Report to Moderator	Re: oil bath upgrade in reply to Mike_Lubbock, 07-26-2012 15:47:22   bottom line in my opinion is that a oil bath filter simply has the abilty to pass air longer with little maintenance than a paper filter that becomes increasingly more restrictive. a paper filter can catch smaller particles,but it does it at a cost of higher and higher air flow restrictions. so it simply has to have maintenance more often. it should be said here though,in all honesty. theres a lot of tractors out there that uses paper filters,but theres a whole lot more of them that use oil bath prefilters BEFORE the paper filter also. K/N simply combines the two into one unit,its not in any way new technology,in fact its very old technology thats been discarded and brought back.its a effecient system, no doubt but if you do try this i think youll soon find yourself tired of cleaning filters. [Reply]  [No Email]
jackinok 07-27-2012 06:11:54 162.58.82.136 Report to Moderator	Re: oil bath upgrade in reply to Mike_Lubbock, 07-26-2012 15:47:22   heres my version of the story. k/n filters are good,but they require the foam cover to be oiled in most cases.( or at least the ones ive looked at).thats the rub in my book. hard to carry stuff to clean and reoil your filter every couple of hours or less. Oil bath filter,simply can go longer without requiring this. now if you used a BIG dry filter, like later model tractors do i think you would be ok.but it would have to be a large one simply because it would have to be able to collect a lot of dust and not restrict airflow. then when you add up the cost of filter replacements ,the oil bath is simply the best and most economical solution. now if you rigged up a deal like they have on the modern fighting vehicles that the way i understand it redirct the exhaust back through the filters to blow them out,you would have something. [Reply]  [No Email]
JRSutton 07-27-2012 05:55:24 75.130.109.233 Report to Moderator	Re: oil bath upgrade in reply to Mike_Lubbock, 07-26-2012 15:47:22   Ok - conceding that the paper filters are twice as good as oil baths, hell, we'll even call it three times as good. ... so WHAT? In these old low tolerance engines, it just doesn't matter. The oil baths ARE good enough. Being better is meaningless. At least for how most of us use them. If you're working it 8 hours a day, 365 days a year that's one thing. And if you're cultivating cactuses in the desert, that's another. But for most applications, improving your air filter is going to be the difference between rebuilding your engine every 60 years with the paper filter versus every 50 years with the oil bath. (and I'm probably being too generous to filters there) Point is - the oil filters have proven themselves in keeping these engines running just fine for decades. You're not going to get any noticeable power increase by using a different filter. Try running it with no filter at all and see how much of a difference it makes - it doesn't. (technically there MAY be a 1/4 hp gain - but you'll never feel it) So I'm not trying to talk you OUT of doing it - just letting you know it's not going to matter. If you'd rather work with paper filters, then that's a good enough reason to do it. [Reply]  [No Email]
JRSutton 07-27-2012 08:19:37 75.130.109.233 Report to Moderator	Re: oil bath upgrade in reply to JRSutton, 07-27-2012 05:55:24   sorry - HIGH tolerance engines, not LOW. I always get that one backwards. I guess I should stick with LOOSE tolerance. [Reply]  [No Email]
Harold Hubbard 07-27-2012 05:53:06 205.209.16.24 Report to Moderator	Re: oil bath upgrade in reply to Mike_Lubbock, 07-26-2012 15:47:22   AND, a pint or two of oil twice a year is a lot cheaper and more available than some of the bigger, less common paper filters. Case in point, my Farmall 560 diesel uses about a quart of oil in the air filter, What five bucks max?? My MF 175D was over forty bucks for both paper filters the last time I bought them. Yes the paper lasts longer, and can be cleaned a few times, but is also subject to damage every time it is, and you might not always catch that on inspection. I do try to live with whatever came on a machine, unless the previous owner took it of or destroyed it. I have also made some strange adaptations. How about an oil bath filter from a VW bug on a Farmall C? [Reply]  [No Email]
Gambles 07-26-2012 21:25:37 24.246.215.127 Report to Moderator	Re: oil bath upgrade in reply to Mike_Lubbock, 07-26-2012 15:47:22   After reading some of these posts, I have the feeling that there is a misconception on exactly how an oil bath air filter works. In MOST oil bath applications, the air going from the atmosphere into the engine does not actually go through the oil, but the dirt is simply flung into the oil by centrifugal force. In other words, (if the oil bath filter has the correct amount of oil in it) the air makes a sudden change of direction, (usually 180°) and the weight of the dirt causes the dirt take a different path than the air and the dirt hits and remains in the oil. The massive amounts of air sucked in by the engine is not submerged in the oil like a lot of people believe. IMO, this type of air filter should never have been called oil bath, but rather a centrifugal filter. So, if the oil bath filter has the correct amount of oil in it, the starting fluid will get past the oil and make it's way into the engine, albeit probably not as well as if the engine has a paper filter on it instead of an oil bath. My $.02 worth anyway. [Reply]  [No Email]
randy hall 07-27-2012 09:37:00 216.255.28.111 Report to Moderator	Re: oil bath upgrade in reply to Gambles, 07-26-2012 21:25:37   in all of the tractor oil bath air cleaners i have been around, usually donoldson,the air intake tube is submerged into the oil cup below the oil level. unless you have magic anti-gravity oil that jumps out of the cup when you turn the ignition on.the ih manual states that the air goes to the oil cup where it goes through a bath of oil. [Reply]  [No Email]
Walt Davies 07-26-2012 21:07:02 70.199.128.150 Report to Moderator	Re: oil bath upgrade in reply to Mike_Lubbock, 07-26-2012 15:47:22   In real dusty areas they use oil bath to replace the paper filters. That should answer your question. Walt [Reply]  [No Email]
buickanddeere 07-27-2012 04:50:25 216.183.130.249 Report to Moderator	Re: oil bath upgrade in reply to Walt Davies, 07-26-2012 21:07:02   Not because the oil better than a dry filter . It's because an oil bath is better than no filter. Bubba in the middle of nowhere can usually come up with a stick to scrape out the cup and some sort of oil to refill the cup with. An air compressor. Or a bath of warm soapy water for either the filter or Bubba would be unheard of. [Reply]  [No Email]
Walt Davies 07-27-2012 08:56:09 70.199.128.150 Report to Moderator	Re: oil bath upgrade in reply to buickanddeere, 07-27-2012 04:50:25   Bummer, you live in Africa or some far off place like that. Walt [Reply]  [No Email]
randy hall 07-26-2012 19:57:33 216.255.28.111 Report to Moderator	Re: oil bath upgrade in reply to Mike_Lubbock, 07-26-2012 15:47:22   you asked this question on yt? this is the only place on earth that will advise you that an oil bath air cleaner is better than a dry paper element and that a magneto is better than a distributor. [Reply]  [No Email]
Mike_Lubbock 07-26-2012 20:34:11 75.254.226.254 Report to Moderator	Re: oil bath upgrade in reply to randy hall, 07-26-2012 19:57:33   Randy, do you agree that the air bath and magentos are better? [Reply]  [No Email]
randy hall 07-27-2012 04:47:53 216.255.28.111 Report to Moderator	Re: oil bath upgrade in reply to Mike_Lubbock, 07-26-2012 20:34:11   i'm being sarcastic. in the sixties the asme said that the dry air filter was the best thing that ever came along for engine longevity. if magnetos were 'the answer' why were they pretty much obsolete by the late forties. alot of thr yt 'experts and driveway farmers'would think that a horse would be better than a car for transportation because you would never have a flat tire. [Reply]  [No Email]
Bret4207 07-27-2012 05:52:23 64.19.90.196 Report to Moderator	Re: oil bath upgrade in reply to randy hall, 07-27-2012 04:47:53   Magnetos and oil baths have their place. So do horses. Locking your thinker into one gear never works out too well. [Reply]  [No Email]
pete 23 07-26-2012 20:02:54 74.32.238.2 Report to Moderator	Re: oil bath upgrade in reply to randy hall, 07-26-2012 19:57:33   Boy, isn't that the truth. [Reply]  [No Email]
Mike_Lubbock 07-26-2012 19:55:24 75.254.226.254 Report to Moderator	Re: oil bath upgrade in reply to Mike_Lubbock, 07-26-2012 15:47:22   Yeah, it is easier to stick with the original but worth the discussion. I am glad that I can put starting fluid in the tube when I need to. Thanks everybody. [Reply]  [No Email]
gene bender 07-26-2012 19:02:17 67.55.226.123 Report to Moderator	Re: oil bath upgrade in reply to Mike_Lubbock, 07-26-2012 15:47:22   Just use the original they work just fine. Check the oil and service like its supposed to be and you will never have any problems. [Reply]  [No Email]
Harold H 07-26-2012 18:49:28 12.23.230.67 Report to Moderator	Re: oil bath upgrade in reply to Mike_Lubbock, 07-26-2012 15:47:22   Definitely stay with the original oil bath. Harold H [Reply]  [No Email]
gtski 07-26-2012 18:48:02 4.254.84.77 Report to Moderator	Re: oil bath upgrade in reply to Mike_Lubbock, 07-26-2012 15:47:22   To entertain yourself hook your choice of a "better" filter to the intake of the oil bath then put clean oil in the oil bath and use the tractor for a while. Then check the amount of dirt the oil bath caught that the "better" filter let through. [Reply]  [No Email]
oldtanker 07-26-2012 19:11:02 66.228.255.239 Report to Moderator	Re: oil bath upgrade in reply to gtski, 07-26-2012 18:48:02   Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see Then reverse it and see how much the dry air traps that the oil bath lets through.....just to be fair. Rick [Reply]  [No Email]
el6147 07-26-2012 17:51:46 50.36.90.215 Report to Moderator	Re: oil bath upgrade in reply to Mike_Lubbock, 07-26-2012 15:47:22   if you need starting fluid to help start a gas tractor any time of the year,you have bigger issues and it isn't going to make any difference whether you keep dirt and dust from entering the motor. the oil bath filter would be the best choice. [Reply]  [No Email]
buickanddeere 07-26-2012 16:53:34 216.46.134.208 Report to Moderator	Re: oil bath upgrade in reply to Mike_Lubbock, 07-26-2012 15:47:22   K&N filter is a coarse screen intended for race tracks to keep the big chunks of dirt out of short lived race engines. Even an oil bath filters better than a k&n. The Fram catalogue lists some dry filters that clamp to a hose or to a carb inlet. [Reply]  [No Email]
Mike_Lubbock 07-26-2012 16:28:01 75.254.226.254 Report to Moderator	Re: oil bath upgrade in reply to Mike_Lubbock, 07-26-2012 15:47:22   I had hoped that by going to a traditional, paper filter that I could free up some horsepower and use starting fluid when it is hard to start. I thought it could breathe better. The air bath ones can be messy sometimes. I use 15w-40 in the motor. For a super c, what type of oil should go into the oil bath? [Reply]  [No Email]
Bendee 07-26-2012 22:20:01 124.180.183.179 Report to Moderator	Re: oil bath upgrade in reply to Mike_Lubbock, 07-26-2012 16:28:01   I"m inclined to stick to the oil bath on my tractors, Figure the original Engineers knew more about them than I do. [Reply]  [No Email]
buickanddeere 07-27-2012 04:57:52 216.183.130.249 Report to Moderator	Re: oil bath upgrade in reply to Bendee, 07-26-2012 22:20:01   Oil bath was used in the bad old days because it was all they had. There is story still circulating about the apprentice mechanic at Harper Detroit Diesel in Toronto. Tandem dump truck in for service and the young lad cleaned the oil cups then filled them to the top with oil and re-installed. Everything was ok at startup and idle. Became exciting when he placed her in reverse, engaged the clutch and revved the engine. The kid did have the presence of mind to apply the binders and turn the steering wheel to full lock and circle the yard. All in the billowing cloud of smoke that obscured visibility. Only damage was to his pride and a set of smoking brakes. [Reply]  [No Email]
teddy52food 07-26-2012 20:55:21 184.94.175.179 Report to Moderator	Re: oil bath upgrade in reply to Mike_Lubbock, 07-26-2012 16:28:01   If you need starting fluid on a C you have other problems. Check the compression & give it a good tune-up. Use the same oil in the filter as in the engine. [Reply]  [No Email]
old 07-26-2012 16:32:58 209.86.226.32 Report to Moderator	Re: oil bath upgrade in reply to Mike_Lubbock, 07-26-2012 16:28:01   Your not going to up any HP by doing that and you can simply shoot some starting fluid right in the air cleaner tube at the top when you want to use it but if you need that to start it then it has other problems any how and is probably down on HP due to simple wear [Reply]  [No Email]
MSM 07-26-2012 16:10:13 75.192.49.17 Report to Moderator	Re: oil bath upgrade in reply to Mike_Lubbock, 07-26-2012 15:47:22   Leave the oil bath on it. Take it apart and clean it real well get all the old dirt out of it,for use in dirt and dust they can't be beat. A K&N is not a good idea,they let an awful lot of fine dust through. [Reply]  [No Email]
Ozlander 07-26-2012 16:11:16 76.210.44.27 Report to Moderator	Re: oil bath upgrade in reply to MSM, 07-26-2012 16:10:13   Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see X2 [Reply]  [No Email]
MarkB_MI 07-26-2012 16:09:57 66.87.0.168 Report to Moderator	Re: oil bath upgrade in reply to Mike_Lubbock, 07-26-2012 15:47:22   What benefit do you expect to gain? Oil bath air filters are well-proven technology. A bit messy to clean, but nothing does a better job. [Reply]  [No Email]
JRSutton 07-26-2012 16:06:25 75.130.109.233 Report to Moderator	Re: oil bath upgrade in reply to Mike_Lubbock, 07-26-2012 15:47:22   Why change? The oil bath filters are probably a lot more effective than you'd think. Hard to argue with how many years they last between rebuilds! [Reply]  [No Email]
rustred 07-26-2012 17:29:39 72.172.100.113 Report to Moderator	Re: oil bath upgrade in reply to JRSutton, 07-26-2012 16:06:25   yep, its the most effective filter,nothing beats it. [Reply]  [No Email]