Cleaning cooling system of engine w/ alloy head

Hendrik · Jul 11, 2012

We have a 1980 car with a 123 cubic inches 4 cylinder DOHC Fiat engine with an aluninum alloy cylinder head. It runs hot at any speed over 50 mph. (Fan is working.)
I will need to check waterpump, thermostat, hoses, radiator and block.
Should I need to clean and flush the engine, can I safely do that with vinegar (as I would do for an older engine with cast iron castings only)?
Your help and comments welcome!
Thanks, Hendrik

Anonymous-0 · Jul 11, 2012

Hey Hendrik... How's life?

Replaced plenty of headgaskets on VW's over the years. Always just drained out the initial coolant/gunk then refilled with fresh water and put in a dishwasher tablet then ran it til all got hot and circulated about 30 minutes. Everything looked new when finished. You folks should have the same thing available as we do. Wife gets the chalk removing ones (red ball in the middle??) from Aldi or Lidl.

Have fun.

Have a loader and power steering on my "new" 423 and lovin the chore life.

Dave

WJD · Jul 11, 2012

I always use dishwasher deturgent to flush engines. The only caution is to be sure and get it all out before reiling with coolant. I remove the thermmostat and flush twice.
Sounds you have a either an air (fins plugged) or internal plugging problem with your radiator.

Anonymous-0 · Jul 11, 2012

Just read the rest of your post.. The VW's I had would do that just before the headgaskets were shot. If you open the radiator or coolant recovery tank, you'd smell a little exhaust. As they got worse, you'd get actuall pressure buildup.

Good Luck.

Dave

Aaron Ford · Jul 11, 2012

I would suggest pulling the upper radiator hose, sticking a garden hose in the radiator and running the engine til what comes out is clear. Do a flush with commercially available solution. Reflush with distilled water. Then refill with your engine and radiator with the 50/50 distilled water and antifreeze mix.

I would only use vinegar as a last resort. I had to use vinegar to get the dex-cool out of my cars radiator and coolant bottle. I also flushed the heater core with it. As an acid, I am sure it is not safe to leave in. As I have an aluminum engine, this was pretty risky.

I tried several things before trying vinegar. It was the only thing I could find that cleaned the Dex-goo out of the coolant bottle. I followed with Peak engine flush leaving it in several days, draining, flushing and refilling with antifreeze.

So far so good,

Aaron

RodinNS · Jul 11, 2012

If you go to your local NAPA you will fin any number of phosphoric acid based cooling system cleaners. I find they work quite well at removing the sludge that builds up in many systems over time...
I know some use vinegar... and mabey it works well for some things but I never found it did much to remove that sludge. Some use dishwasher detergent... then spend a day washing suds out. I find a commercial product works pretty good with less effort.

Rod

Bob M · Jul 11, 2012

Hendrik - Before you clean out the cooling system, do a careful check of the exterior of the radiator. Be looking for fins corroded and detached from the tubes.

I had a Chrysler minivan with similar overheating problems. The cooling system internals were pristine. However the a good portion of the radiator fins had worked loose from the tubes (aluminum and plastic radiator). The radiator still looked OK from the outside and had good water flow, but it was barely functional.

A new radiator had the van running nice and cool again.

Walt Davies · Jul 11, 2012

Fill radiator to top of spout. Run engine until warm keep radiator full to top. Put a load on engine and watch for bubbles in radiator with cap off. Keep it full to running over when doing this. A small stream of bubbles is a small head gasket leak just enough to overheat engine under load. Put new gasket on. A large amount of bubbles is a real big problem, rebuild engine.
Walt
50 years mechanic.

glennster · Jul 11, 2012

vinegar would be a safe flush, the use baking soda and water after to neutralize any acids. with the radiator cap off, check for a good coolant flow with the engine hot. it is possible that electrolysis ate the impeller off the water pump. here are some pics of a ford taurus that has this problem. note the old impeller is missing almost all the blades.

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Anonymous-0 · Jul 11, 2012

(quoted from post at 09:29:37 07/11/12) vinegar would be a safe flush, the use baking soda and water after to neutralize any acids. with the radiator cap off, check for a good coolant flow with the engine hot. it is possible that electrolysis ate the impeller off the water pump. here are some pics of a ford taurus that has this problem. note the old impeller is missing almost all the blades.

<a href="http://s121.photobucket.com/albums/o234/glennster_01/?action=view&current=DCP01844.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o234/glennster_01/DCP01844.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

<a href="http://s121.photobucket.com/albums/o234/glennster_01/?action=view&current=DCP01845.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o234/glennster_01/DCP01845.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
Untitled URL Link

I had a jeep do the same thing.

BrianJasper co. Ia · Jul 11, 2012

Assuming you verified you don't have a mechanical problem, Ford has a cleaner called VC7 Iron Out. It's safe for aluminum as long as you don't go over 10% concentration. It's pretty strong stuff. I use it for doing a heavy duty flush on 6.0L Powerstrokes after a clogged oil cooler took out the EGR cooler. In the event oil gets into the coolant, something like Simple Green concentrate can be used. With either cleaner, remove the thermostat and run the engine for an hour at 1200 rpm to fully circulate the cleaner and give them time to work. After allowing engine to cool somewhat, take the upper rad hose off and run the garden hose into the rad and let it run until you get nothing but clean water out.

Hendrik · Jul 14, 2012

Thank you that responded. Very useful tips and valuable experience.
In the meantime, the car engine developed more serious symptoms: a knock and running on three cylinders, so Dave may be right.
Will keep you posted.

Anonymous-0 · Jul 14, 2012

(quoted from post at 05:22:03 07/14/12) Thank you that responded. Very useful tips and valuable experience.
In the meantime, the car engine developed more serious symptoms: a knock and running on three cylinders, so Dave may be right.
Will keep you posted.

water don't compress real well. Keep running it and you may end up with a busted piston... Happened to a jeep I had...

Rich_WI · Jul 14, 2012

(quoted from post at 10:41:40 07/11/12)Some use dishwasher detergent... then spend a day washing suds out.

Rod

If it gets suds, it sure isnt dishwasher detergent. Dishwasher detergent is specially made so it [i:b1c32d2a15][b:b1c32d2a15]DONT[/b:b1c32d2a15][/i:b1c32d2a15] suds up. If dishwasher detergent gots suds, can you imagine the mess you would have in your kitchen? Standard dishwashers only fill 4 times with the detergent going into the second fill (First fill is rince only) so that means the detergent only gets rinced twice.

Dishwasher deteregent is safer and milder than anything on the shelf labled for cleaning cooling systems. Those always seem to be acid based.

Cleaning cooling system of engine w/ alloy head

Hendrik

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Anonymous-0

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WJD

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Anonymous-0

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Aaron Ford

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RodinNS

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Bob M

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Walt Davies

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glennster

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Anonymous-0

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BrianJasper co. Ia

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Hendrik

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