8 volt battery

ralph jerla · Apr 27, 2012

i just bought a 1952 8n ford tractor. It has a 8-volt battery. Has this tractor been converted to 8 volts? I want to convert to 12-volts. Any advise?

LJD · Apr 27, 2012

8 volt batteries used to be common for use in tractors with 6 volt systems. Gives better cold cranking speed and requires no modifications to the electrical system except adjusting the voltage regulator a bit. Downside is the expense of the battery since it's a "specialty" item and usually expensive. So there was no "conversion. " If you want a 12 volt system, you will need a 12 volt charging device - cheapest will be an automotive brushless alternator. If you have lights they will need to be changed to 12 volts. If battery ignition a little rewiring and a resistor added.

John T · Apr 27, 2012

The 8 volt was often used (not my thing) as a band aid approach to cure a weak 6 volt system. If I had a smaller fairly easy to crank tractor like that Id restore it correctly to a 6 volt (if that was the original???) and do it right with a good heavy battery and 00 Gauge cables. If one just has to change voltage, then Id go ahead and go to the standard 12 versus the cobbled up oddball 8 volt system. Many 8 volt systems never charged real good as the Voltage regulators or light switch systems werent properly re configured and adjusted

John T

ralph jerla · Apr 27, 2012

the new 8-volt battery was $150. So i need the 6-volt to 12-volt conversion kit?

RN · Apr 27, 2012

8 volt batteries wer the answer to cold Iowa and Minnesota winter starts. Many of the 6 volt generator voltage regulators could be adjusted fairly easy to put out 9 volts instead of 7.2/7.8 used to charge the 6 volt battery and oould maintain full charge on 8 volt battery for starting. Coils could usually take the slight extra current no problem, headlights also as both components meant to work when generator was putting out 7+volts, 8 volt battery at low level of charge still at upper end of 6 volt standard set generator. If you want to go to 12 volts, remember that alternators usually charge at 13.2 volts-low acceptable rating for Delco s10- to 15 volts- and that will require resister in coil circuit/12 volt coil and 12 volt lights or voltage reducer in circuit. Check you generator output- sometimes the generator was NOT adjusted to put out more than 7.5 volts and the 8 volt battery slowly dropped cfanking power- but the extra cell gave more plate area and reserve so helped in cold starts awhile, got a bit of trickle charge more than the 6 volt battery. IHC Ms and VW bus"s, up to 1968 beetles also got the 8 volt batteries in cold areas. My opinion? If it is working and starting, you don"t need 12 volts for night work lights and/or radio then keep it 8 volts battery with up adjusted regulator, rest of components are still within design margins. RN.

old · Apr 27, 2012

Band aid fix at best of other problems. Your better off going back to 6 volts or switching it to 12 volts. Going to 12 volts is not all that hard and by far better to do then try to use a 8 volt battery and being a side mount distributor it is easy to go to 12 volts

LJD · Apr 27, 2012

Yes often used as a Band-Aid. But also used on machines when all iss perfect but difficult to start at below 0 F temps. Many tractors with 6 volt systems in perfect condition were/are near impossible to start at temps below 0 F. Using an 8 volt battery often gains a full 1 volt at cranking which makes a significant difference. In that case, NOT a Band-Aid. More of an added enhancement.

In today's world however - it's more cost effect to change to 12 volt instead. I also wonder now-adays how many people actually have to start a 6 volt tractor at below 0 F temps? I do, but I have electric block heaters. Even then - if my Case VAC-14 or Oliver HG won't start at below zero - I just stick in a 12 volt battery and they take right of. Once running, I stick the 6 volt battery back in. I don't use them very often when it's that cold though. In fact, I don't do much of anything outside anymore then it's 10-20 F below 0. If 8 volt batteries were price like 12 volt batteries I might have a few. Too pricey though.

David G · Apr 27, 2012

If you are going to use it as a work tractor, and not just restored show tractor, upgrade it to 12V with an alternator. They will start much easier and allow you to run accessories off them.

John T · Apr 27, 2012

Love our fun sparky chats, hope I helped you out below. I still with tongue in cheek, however, choose to call it a "band aid" as as its often a non factory "enhancement" you call it, so there we can call it anything we want lol. Seriously away from the semantics, if I had a tractor that absolutely MUST START at sub zero temps I'd opt for the more standard readily available 12 volt system instead of a cobbled up jury rigged (by most, even if us experienced folks or you and I did it right) oddball system. I say "system" because while many are smart enough to simply change out the battery they may not address any charging issues

Fun chattin with ya take care now and by the way, I also use a lotttttttt of "enhancements" and "band aids" or whatever you choose to call them over all the years of farming, who hasnt??

PS They started calling them band aid "brand" for fear of the term band aid alone loosing its trademark protection........

John T

evilboweivel · Apr 27, 2012

You can always put a 6volt battery back in

John T · Apr 27, 2012

If you want to use the 8 volt battery then you DONT NEED THE 6/12 CONVERSION. However you may wanna have a knowledgeable genny repair shop take a look at the charging system to be on the safe side. If I were doing it (but Im an enginner and into such things) Id also add some primary ignition ballast and possibly even some on the lighting circuits to extend the life of the components

BUT HEY IT WILL STILL WORK WITHOUT ALL OF THAT YOUR TRACTOR YOUR CHOICE HOW WELL YOU WANT TO DO IT

take care

John T

John T · Apr 27, 2012

As so often the case we agree Rich. If I had a tractor that just had to start at sub zero temps I also would use the standard readily avaialble 12 volt conversion instead of putting a band aid on the problem

Take care down south there

John T

Dean · Apr 27, 2012

Rather common on WD45s in my part of the country.

Dean

mkirsch · Apr 27, 2012

The tractor was NOT "converted" to 8 Volts.

All the previous owner did was install an 8 Volt battery.

As the others have said, the 8 Volt battery is a "band aid" fix for deteriorating wiring and worn-out starters.

old · Apr 27, 2012

No need for a kit if your half way good with your hands and a few tools. A simple alternator made to fit a 1980 Chev pick up no power any thing and a few simple wires a diode and the diagram and your pretty much set. I have done so many I can pretty much do one in my sleep and I even have one setting right here waiting for the guy to call me back to install it for him

teddy52food · Apr 27, 2012

Like I have said before. The magnetic field in the starter comes from the atoms of the wire excited by the voltage. Just a volt or two will turn them faster.

teddy52food · Apr 27, 2012

Brushless alternator???

Bspauld · Apr 28, 2012

My BIL bought a new WD45 in the early 50s and used a 8 volt in the winter. He used it every day and it never failed to start

buickanddeere · Apr 28, 2012

Treating the symptoms and ignoring the disease.
A clean and tidy conversion to 12V that does not involve hanging a butt ugly alternator on the side of an antique is lesser sin.

ralph jerla · Apr 28, 2012

thanks for the advice, it's definitely not a show tractor but it sure runs sweet.

ralph jerla · Apr 28, 2012

thanks, will look into this. even got the perfect mechanic who would love to do this.

ralph jerla · Apr 28, 2012

thanks for the info

buickanddeere · Apr 28, 2012

(quoted from post at 21:58:50 04/27/12) Brushless alternator???

Lots of brushless alternators around. Unfortunately even using permanent magnets they do not achieve over 100% efficiency.

old · Apr 28, 2012

If you check the archives there is post after post and even some with pictures of how to wire on up.

Bill(Wis) · Apr 28, 2012

Not even the perpetual motion ones I heard about on the Art Bell show one time??? Or was it the YT forum???

oldtanker · Apr 28, 2012

(quoted from post at 06:35:05 04/28/12) Treating the symptoms and ignoring the disease.
A clean and tidy conversion to 12V that does not involve hanging a butt ugly alternator on the side of an antique is lesser sin.

LOL,,,,just did my IH M last year......

sure it has a 10SI hanging on it......sure is unly and did my 8N last week.....somehow I just don't see it as ugly.

But it's a worker not a trailer queen.

Rick

LJD · Apr 28, 2012

10SI and 12SI alternators are considered "brushless" in electrical terminology. It means they do NOT use brushes to carry any charge current. The little brushes they have are only there to excite. Any electric generator on a car or light truck called an "alternator" is brushless. On the other hand, old generator son tractors, 60s and older cars, etc. DO use the brushes to carry current.

Delco brushless alternators include the 5SI, 10SI, 11SI, 12SI, 20SI, 23SI, 26SI, 3OSI, 33SI, 34SI, 35SI, 36SI, CS series, and 50DN.

Delco brushed alternators include 19SI, 21SI, 22SI, and the T1.

Ron/PA · Apr 28, 2012

I'm confused. If an 8 volt battery (which I think is just wrong) is a band aid on a mechanical wound, then what is a 12 volt conversion but a bigger band aid?

They really will work in sub zero temps with a 6 volt system and a well tuned engine. We're still running 3 here on the farm, 2 of them get near daily use and are still 6 volt.

I'm not bashing 12 volt, eventually they'll all be 12, but until then, lets not lose sight of the fact that they will run as designed on the OEM system.

LJD · Apr 28, 2012

This whole "Band Aid" thing is silly. To refuse to fix something properly and use a short-cut instead connotes a "Band Aid." To upgrade a tractor to make it perform better then originally designed is NOT.

Plain fact is that with many perfectly working 6 volt systems, they can be made to crank better in cold weather with an 8 volt battery.

Are there people with improperly maintained 6 volt systems that try to remedy with an 8 volt battery or 12 volt system? Yeah. There are also many who had perfectly working 6 volt systems but wanted to improve upon the original design.

oldtanker · Apr 28, 2012

(quoted from post at 10:46:20 04/28/12) This whole "Band Aid" thing is silly. To refuse to fix something properly and use a short-cut instead connotes a "Band Aid." To upgrade a tractor to make it perform better then originally designed is NOT.

Plain fact is that with many perfectly working 6 volt systems, they can be made to crank better in cold weather with an 8 volt battery.

Are there people with improperly maintained 6 volt systems that try to remedy with an 8 volt battery or 12 volt system? Yeah. There are also many who had perfectly working 6 volt systems but wanted to improve upon the original design.

The Ford in the picture has a fresh turned crank, new bearing, fresh cut valves, new sleeves and pistons, new coil, points and condenser and a new cap....oh yea new plugs too. So the 12 volt conversion is not a bandaid....it's an up grade!

Just don't know of any 6 volt systems that start when needed at -30F. Plus now the wife and kids can jump em without thinking about it.

Rick

mdtractormechanic · Apr 28, 2012

Any fix to the tractor that is [u:7bd75da752]NOT[/u:7bd75da752] for the long term is a 'band aid'. Remember that a band aid is a temperary remedy. If you enhance your system by installing an 8 volt battery and the battery last without harming your system then you've 'modified' your system. It wasn't a band aid. Field modifications have been made since the first machines and before the invention of the band aid...lol.

The bottom line is this....Do what ever you're most comfortable with, be it rewiring or cleaning the existing wires and staying with 6 volts, Upping the voltage with an 8 volt battery, or changing out the 6 volt for 12.

buickanddeere · Apr 28, 2012

After a while the aluminum alternator oxidizes and
becomes the same colour as the ford sheet metal.
I was talking about two cylinder JD's with butt
ugly alternator conversions.
Can't see the M conversion.

8 volt battery

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