Problem guy/bidder/former neighbor. ( long post)

This guy's Dad was a neighbor for almost forty years. The father died two years ago. They had to sell everything to settle the kids fighting over the "money". There where three JD 4020s and two JD 3020s. They where kind of rough and not anything special.

The day of the sale my brother and I decided that if we could buy any or all of them we would go together on them for winter shop work. I went to the sale. The man's kids where all there. I talked to them all. I told them if they wanted something make sure they were where I could see them. I would not bid against them. All of them but the youngest one told me that they did not want anything that was on the sale. The youngest(John) told me he wanted his Dad's 1968 4020. I told him I would not bid against him but if he quit bidding I would then bid. You have got to understand I have known all of these kids from birth. Most of them have been over to my place with my kids.

So the auction started. I did buy a few small things but when it came to the tractors there where few bidders. I bought both JD 3020s and then when they started on the 68 model 4020 I did not bid at first. "John" was standing right next to me when they where selling the tractor. He only bid one time for $3900. The tractor was worth much more than that. When the bidding started to slow down I asked him if he was done. He said he was and that he had bid all he could. I told him I was going to start bidding then. I got the tractor for $6900. I then bought the other two as well. I gave a little more for them as they where close and I had done most of the repair work on them. Plus I felt that I was helping out the kids some buy helping them get a little more money.

When I was checking out I told John that he could buy the tractor off of me for just what I gave for it as long as I had not spent anything else on it. I told him I would save it for the last one we would get ready to sell and that would give him a few months to get more money rounded up. He was getting a fifth of the farm/auction money.

Well just before I put that tractor into the shop a few months later I called "John" I told him I had not done anything to the tractor but I was getting ready to run it through the shop. He told me he still did not have enough money so he would just have to pass on it. So I tuned it up and straighten the sheet metal all out. I then had it painted and then put all new tires on it. You all know what tires cost today.

When it was all done I advertised it for $11,000 in several local and state wide papers. I had put over 3K in it so I was not getting rich at that price. Guess who called to come and look at the tractor??? "John" He came out to the farm and came up to me with a hand full of cash. He said he had the money for HIS tractor now. What the heck??? He only had $6900 there. I told him that the tractor was for sale at $11,000 now. He went crazy. Cussing, crying and acting like a little kid. He told me I was a crook and a thief. That I had "stole" that tractor and all kinds of things. I tried to tell him I would sell it for exactly what I had in it. He would not even think about it. I had to call the law to get off the farm. I even held the JD 4020 for a little while longer to give him a chance. He would not offer anything more so I sold it.

Now he is going around bad mouthing me to everyone that will listen. He even is at auctions trying to stir up trouble. He will stand back in the crowd and talk real loud about how terrible equipment jockeys are.

Today I was at a high dollar sale. I was watching for a dealer friend that could not get to the sale. This sale was a little different in that there where two color bidder numbers. The green ones where for $30,000 and down. Those you just needed a drivers license to get. Then red ones that where for more than $30,000 and you had to have a bank letter of credit to get those. I had a red number as the equipment that I was bidding on for my friend was well above the lower number.

I thought that I saw "John" at the sale. Fine it is a free country. When the auctioneer got to the high dollar stuff the bidders thinned out. I was bidding on some items when I saw "John" bidding against me when ever I bid. That just seemed strange. He is not in the equipment business. So they knocked of an item to him and he played like he had misunderstood the auctioneer on the bid amount. So the auctioneer had to rebid the item. It was over what I wanted to go anyway. So a few items later here good old "John" was back at the bidding whenever I would bid. I asked the auctioneer's helper to check to see if all of the current bidders where registered to be bidding at this price level. The auctioneer told everyone to put their numbers where they could be seen. He said that red numbers only for the rest of this row. John threw a fit about not being able to bid any more. They had to have a deputy walk John off the property.

I am starting to worry about this kid being nuts or something. I don't worry about myself but what about my property or family??? Am I just being paranoid??? He is acting real weird. I wish I had never bought that tractor but I don't think I did anything wrong. I gave him multiple chances to buy that tractor. If he would come up with over 10K now I could get him the tractor back. I know where it is and have talked to the current owner. He is willing to help me out just as long as he does not lose any money. John does not seem rational about the whole deal. He still wants the tractor at the auction price. I am at a loss as how to handle this. Any of you have any ideas???

sounds like restraining order time almost... er.. whatever you have to file for harrassment in your neck of the woods...

He definitely has a screw loose. Will he come shooting someday? I don't know but someone within the law enforcement world needs to be informed of his ways. Jim

JD certainly sounds like you've treated him fairly. Have you attempted to talk to the other siblings? If he is indeed suffering some kind of break down, ect and he's not married it will be them that will have to make a call to get him some help. I guess if it were me I'd let the family know. You might actually save the mans life. We went through the restraining order bit with daughters pshyco boyfriend found out the order keeps a sane mans temper in check, but someone thats not right is going to walk all over that little piece of paper. Good luck!
Tom B.

It seems like you're in a no win situation with this kid. The way you describe his behavior makes it sound more like you have wronged him and no matter how good a deal you cut,in his eyes you are the devil. Kid is spun and you are not exactly coming across as paranoid. Protect your property and family because that's what counts. As for the tractor, if it was me, I would never give him even the slightest chance of ever getting it back after how he's acted..

I thought about this for awhile, and to tell you the truth no one can predict what this guy is doing, or going to do. We had a neighbor who did similar things like this, probably even worse. There was nothing that could be done with him because he was so-called injured WW 2 veteran. Drew one hell of a disability check. He aimed guns at us and others, but never did anything violent. Just ran his mouth. I know how you feel though, because you never know when something may trigger something else. Our neighbor died, and I know I should not say this, but our world is a much better place to be without him here.

If this guy were thinking realistically he should think about the extra money you made his family by bidding on their equipment. But all he is doing is acting like a small child. If he were to get the tractor now, as you have offered to help him get it back, it probably is not going to pacify him.

This is a situation, that probably is not going away in hurry. A restraining order ususally does not work. It could even add fuel to the fire. This guy is already showing no respect for authority or he would not be having to be led away by the law officers.

How do you defend yourself against someone like this, is the million dollar question. As to him bad-mouthing you, people know you and people him. My thoughts are with you, as i have been in your shoes. GOOD LUCK

There are always two sides to any story and/or situation. And when I make that remark, I am simply saying that there are two different perspectives and/or perceptions of what happened. That seems to be the case here.
Professionally, I would suggest to see if mediation might resolve the issue, or at least clarify it. But in order for that to happen, both of you would have to be willing to voluntarily sit down and freely discuss the issue with the help of a trained third "neutral" (Least costly option involves your local community mediation programs). From your perspective, and what you tell is that the issue has moved from sentimental value and a matter of cash to personal resentment of financial profit. Other issue that might play a subliminal secondary, but equally important role is the (stressed) relationship between him and his siblings as outlined in the described fight over the estate. While he is not able to profit to the extend he envisioned due to his siblings being a part of the estate, he sees you as another (perhaps closer) target that is also to blame for the lower financial share coming his way, perhaps more readily than his siblings.
With the escalation of the resentment towards you and ensuing increased measure he takes, it seems that he is navigating himself more and more into a corner from which a graceful and face saving exit becomes less and less likely for him (hence my suggestion for mediation). One possibility might include the fact that the tractor is no longer yours and that you would love to sell him the tractor at his price, but since you don't have it you cannot set the price. What would he do with the tractor if he had it, what would be different then vs. what now with him not having the tractor. What would he do if it were not him and you in this situation, but two of his siblings or him and another sibling? How would he handle and resolve those issues? Questions along those lines of thinking outside the box, role reversal, looking in vs. looking out might work, but require a certain amount of rational thinking and behavior.
On occasion, however, there is no rational thinking and behavior dictating ones action. Even the best run interference, mediation, etc. will not resolve things. You need to carefully weigh your options such as taken personal precautions or legal steps, a protective order for example. P.O.s are a measure of last resort and in most instances require a repeated, well documented, threat or harm from someone against another or his family/belongings. You want to carefully weigh those steps, as they certainly will worsen matters and you don't need to have those derailed and dismissed due to a substantive, factual or procedural mis-step of yours. That would play into his hand and give him something to brag about, perhaps the "victory" of getting one up over you.

First off you went above and beyond anything that could be expected by this guy to help him out,sounds like he's a couple bricks shy of a load and you never know what a nut like that will decide to do.I'd be very wary of him as you never know what someone like that will come up with to do.Sounds like one of those types that blames all their self made problems on someone else.

we definitly went to same school

It sounds like maybe it took longer than expected to settle the estate and he still wanted the tractor for what you paid after he finally got his cut.

Family, & Friends, & sometimes neighbors are the worst to deal with. You say your not afraid for Your self. I suggest You be worried for awhile at least!

It is doubtful that you could get any help from the law until something illegal happens. You may be wise to install some video surveillance. At the same time keep your ears open for threats. I have been close to two situations of criminal threatening. It doesn't take much to get locked up for a year or two.

To make a quick observation.
So all 5 kids got to see their parents farm and all the equipment auctioned off and they each got 20% of the total amount? Is this right?
If this is the case then all 5 kids got their inheritance with the auctioneer getting true market value for all the items, including this tractor.
And John didnt get the item he wanted....Ummm...Why wasnt he given the tractor by with the other 4 kids agreeing to this? Likely all the kids agreed to sell "the farm" and get money for all the items and split it 5 ways. Fair is fair and life doesnt turn out the way you want. How much money did each kid get?
I would tell this John kid (how old is he) that he got his inheritance and to shut the H3ll up.
Some kids get the world handed to them and dont have to work for anything. I know a guy that was given everything from his wealthy parents, money for a house, money to buy land, money to buy a boat, real sad. This guy is now in his 40s and is kind of a loser. He hasnt held a real job in several years. He is a drunk too. Spoiling kids can turn them into losers.

Some people are ruled by emotion and facts or logic mean nothing to them unless they want them to.
Keep an eye open, the kid isn't done yet. His Father's death has added emotion fuel and removed what governor he had.
You went out of your way to be accommodating.Not your fault either the kids were all emotional about settling the estate too.
Environment plus heredity has made this kid a walking time bomb. That 4020 may either disappear or be vandalized.
Where is the Mother and the other siblings in all this? Are they aware of John's rampage ? Has this John had marital or girlfriend problems?

JD I had something similar but different.

Neighbors sale had a 560 diesel. A good clean low houred one. I wanted it. I told a nephew I would not bid against him. He got the 560 for $4200.

After the sale I told him if he ever wanted to sell it to let me know.

6 months later I saw him and asked if he was using the 560 for anything. He said that he had sold it.

EEERRRRRR.

Gary

Why all the conversation with the guy in the first place?

One time at an auction, a neighbor and I were both interested in the same item. He told me he didn't want to bid against me.

I told him I thought that was what auctions were for.

Oh, the (true) stories I could tell about some of the goings-on around here. Plenty of people who let irrational emotion guide their decision making process complete with envy and jealousy. It can be very depressing to think about somedays. I wish in this instance that misery did not have company to paraphrase an old saying.

Sounds like he's spoiled rotten. I would keep any vehicles garaged. I would set up cameras and record any activity. I doubt if you have heard the last from him. Hal

Get a concealed carry permit and a gun... but don't tell ANYONE you have it.

There is no reason to have had to wait for the estate to be setteled. Almost 2 years ago had to go thru same estate thing with wifes Dad, Mom already gone. 6 kids in family. The auctioner was a friend and asistant auctioner is part of my family, not dads family. Dad had promised the youngest daughter the one car but never put it in wrighting. She is in dire straits as her husband is completely disabled and medical bills in excess of million dollars, unallowed to work or will loose all goverment help for husband and teanage boy. The attorney ( had been this office for my family since 1959) said she would have to buy it at sale with here part of estate altho all other kids just wanted her to have it. Anything small we could take, rest had to go to auction (house was sold private) and anything that we wanted from the auction would be deducted from reciepts at closing of estate, if any wanted more than what share would have been at that time would have had to pay then. He passed in May, sale was in July and house sold in Dec with estate closed out on Dec 30. So that boy should have been able to even if he did not have the cash at sale date have gotten it anyways and sale price deducted from his part of estate and if nothing else of value in estate the one tractor was about his one fifth of estate so he would have had a long time to come up with any money owd the estate. And one final statement, NOBODY COULD HAVE HAD BETTER INLAWS THAN I HAD.

Give him enough rope he will hang himself.
He is well on his way.

Sounds like a spoiled brat not getting his way. You gave him a chance. He couldn't or wouldn't take it. So you have every right to do what you did. I would let the local laws know about it. Just in case.

I already have a concealed carry permit. I always have protection close by. I have carried a pair of 1911 Colt 45s since I came home from Nam.

Some back history. The Mother passed away several years ago in the nursing home. This made the Father's death the end of the farm. The State of Iowa had a $400,000 lien against the estate. The Mother had been on the state Medicaid.

The farm had a 130 acres. The land brought $7500 per acre. That was just shy of a million dollars. The equipment and household stuff brought another 100k. So each kid should have $125-135K each.

Everything had to sell because two of the kids would not agree to running the farm jointly. One of the oldest kids is farming. He wanted the others to pay off the state and keep the farm. The local bank had agreed to loan a joint LLC the money.

The problem was the rental income would not have gotten each kid much after the payment and taxes. I also told them that they would be heading for trouble if they tried to keep it going with five bosses.

The outlaws(non kid spouses) ended any chance of it going on. By the sale few of the kids where on speaking terms. Their father was never a very good planner. He had a life insurance policy that would have covered the state but he quit making the premium payments when his wife died. He said his estate would be enough for the kids.

Sounds good and thank you for serving our country. Hard to make that sound sincere in text, but it is.

interesting story. Sounds like you're a fair guy. Sounds like the kid has been spoiled rotten and has NO sense of reality. Anyone with any common sense would not think they could buy a tractor that's been fixed up for what it was priced at in a previous condition. Definitely stay away from him.

Daughter's boyfriend was telling me about a roommate at college who doesn't think she should pay part of the utility bills because she doesn't spend much time in the house. (Too bad, electric company doesn't know when she's not there, meter still spins). Some kids are just selfish, can't think logically, have no common sense. Sounds like your neighbor's kid is one of them.

Sounds like a kid we have down here. His truck ran out of gas. Thought Daddy should stop what he was doing(working) and go fill it up. Daddy said ok when I can get to it. I will fill it up. Thing sat in the ditch for four days before kid filled it up.Not on Daddies things to do list.

JD ,
You Are a Fair man ..its a safe bet who the likes of john choose to lead the US ...his state of mind is a mental desease that has wrecked our country

I was horsing around in the snow, and managed to put my car off the road. I was jacking it up, putting boards under, etc., when Dad and Mom drove by, coming home from somewhere. Dad said, "We'll save a little for you if you don't make it home in time for dinner." No offer of help given, none expected. I'd have declined, had he offered.

You don't raise good kids by bailing them out of every little thing that comes up.

This kids dad owned 130 acres and had five tractors and his son can't even scrape up enough change to buy one of the tractors? That would tell me a lot about him right there. A real man would have bought the tractor at the sale or arranged to buy it from the brothers and sisters for a fair price. Sounds like a real weasel. Until the dads death this kid wouldn't have even know what $6900 dollars looked like other than in pictures.

You do have something to worry about. But, we all do. At any time some crackhead can show up and act the fool. Best advice I can off is to never forget, when seconds matter help is only minutes away..... Sounds like you are prepared.

I think I'd try for the restraining order, yes it won't mean a hill of beans to the guy, his level is a bit off plumb. If you can get a restraining order or even go through the process of applying for one then the court has been informed of the problem. If God forbid it escalates to property damage or physical injury you have proof that the court was warned, won't do anything if an incident occurs but might get your tail out of a jam if something happens to him or give the Sheriff's department a reason to look at him for vandalism or such.

You're not being paranoid when they're really out to get you. This guy has a screw loose and you seem to be his main focus these days. I have no doubt you know to take care of yourself in a face-to-face, but this guy is not going to come at you head-on. He might try to hurt you by some trap or device, but more likely he'll go after your property. You probably ought to consult some really good security consultant, as well as keeping your sheriff informed.

Good thinking