clothes dryer 10 -3 wiring

wife bought a good as new washer and dryer at auction to instal directly upstairs above the existing set ,,. the new dryer requires 10 -3 wiring /WE THOUGHT WE COULD JUCTION NEW WIRING FROM THE DOWSTAIRS DRYER PLUG AND RESOLVE NEVER TO USE BOTH AT THE SAME TIME ...that seems doable ,,, HOWEVER THE DOWNSTAIRS DRYER PLUG IS WIRED WITH 10-2 WITH GROUND ,,THE UPSTAIRS DRYER will run and tumble but will not heat ,, i think i will have to run 10-3 all the way to the fuse box in order for the dryer to heat ???,,IT COULD BE THAT THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG WITH THE DRYER ? BUT I DOUBRT IT,, MY FARM BOY KNOWLEDGE IS just enuf to be dangerous when it comes to electric ,, in the EXISTING dowstairs plug i matched the black wires , the 10-3 red matched up with the white 10-2 ,,the bare grounds were connected to the white 10-3 wire ,,everything seemed to work normal on the new dryer except for NO heat..THE BREAKER IS OFF FOR THE NITE ..

j hikemper

All electric dryers in my experience (30+ years service tech) use 10-3. The heating element is 240V (red & black) and the drum motor runs on 120v (neutral [white wire] to either of the other wires. Depending on your local code (electrical inspector), each dryer might need to be wired separately from your entrance panel to a disconnect (fuse/breaker) box near each dryer. I advise hiring an electrician to do this as a mistake can (and has been) fatal.....friend killed his wife years ago.

Is there a wiring diagram pasted on the back panel of the dryer....or a "tech sheet" with wiring diagram somewhere you can find it? It"s also possible to do a search (internet) for the model number and wiring diagram to see if you can find one online.

j hikemper

All electric dryers in my experience (30+ years service tech) use 10-3 although new code requirements might need 10-3 w/ground. The heating element is 240V (red & black) and the drum motor runs on 120v (neutral [white wire] to either of the other wires. That's why the drum turns but it won't heat. Depending on your local code (electrical inspector), each dryer might need to be wired separately from your entrance panel to a disconnect (fuse/breaker) box near each dryer. I advise hiring an electrician to do this as a mistake can (and has been) fatal.....friend killed his wife years ago.

Is there a wiring diagram pasted on the back panel of the dryer....or a "tech sheet" with wiring diagram somewhere you can find it? It's also possible to do a search (internet) for the model number and "wiring diagram" minus quotes, to see if you can find one online.

As simple as I can for your new dryer:

Run 10-3 all the way back to your load center, double 30 amp breaker for black and red to provide 220, white to your nuetral buss, ground (bare) to your ground buss, and call it a day that the job was done correctly. There are different style 220 receptical outlets depending upon what the plug style is on your appliance (dryer), so...

Forget about trying to tie into that other receptical. That won't be code, and is not setup the same. If existing is 220, sounds like is using floating ground, or receptical nuetral is tied to ground, so forget about tying into it. If have enough 10-3 left over, can redo your existing dryer receptical back to its circuit breaker at your load center too while you are at it.

Don't get shocked or burn the house down, especially in time for Easter weekend.

Mark

thanx guys ,, gonna get the wire to run seperate circuits and a fella in here to wire it correctly ,, the 10-2 with ground ran fine since 1984 ,.were we tempting fate ?

I think you have a problem with the dryer....

Dryers are know to cause house fires.Lint burns like gunpowder.

It sounds like you're missing one leg. The motor and timer use 120 and the heater uses 240. So if you have one leg and neutral, it will behave as you describe. Take your voltmeter and check the voltages. Each hot to neutral should be 120 volts, hot to hot should be 240.

The old wiring tied neutral and ground together in the dryer. There is probably a jumper at the terminal block where you connect the dryer cord to tie neutral and ground together; this jumper is removed when you use a four-wire receptacle.

Obviously the four-wire setup is safer than three-wire; if it wasn't the code wouldn't have been changed. Nonetheless, there are millions of dryers using the old setup with no problems. On the other hand, two dryers on the same 30 amp circuit is a definite no-no.

As posted below I agree, in days past THEY ONY RAN THREE WIRES (2 Hots and Equipment GroundING Conductor but NO NEUTRAL to some 120/240 appliances) and sure they worked fine and will continue to do so.

HOWEVER for safetys sake under later code they now run 4 wires (2 Hots, Neutral GrounDED Conductor, Equipment GroundING Conductor) to appliances that have BOTH 120 and 240 volt loads SO THERES A NEUTRAL FOR 120 VOLT LOAD RETURN CURRENT AND THERES A DEDICATED EQUIPMET GROUNDING CONDUCTOR FOR FAULT CURRENT ONLYYYYYYYYY

If it were me I would run a new seperate latest code approved branch circuit of 4 wires to the dryer insteads of using the old 3 wire circuit. Again thats 4 wires, 2 Hots (L1 and L2 Red n Black) 1 Neutral (White GrounDED Conductor) 1 Equipment GroundING Conductor). In the panel the hots wire to a two pole 240 volt breaker,,,,,,,,the White Neutral to the Neutral Buss,,,,,,,,the Bare/Green Equipment Ground to the Ground Buss.

Your home your choice and sure the old would work but in good faith and conscience I have to advise in favor of the new modern 4 wire circuit so youre NOT using the safety equipment ground to carry neutral return current for 120 volt loads THATS A MODERN NO NO AND VERY WICKED LOL

John T

A dryer has both 240 and 120 circuits.

In the older dryers than ran 10/3 wire without a ground and bonded the ground to the neutral in the back of the dryer.


In the newer dryers the run 10/3 wire with a ground and remove the bonding strap in the dryer so ground and neutral are separate.


If your setup is run using 10/2 with a ground they are connecting the neutral to the bare ground wire. This is a strict no no. It will work if everything is perfect because the casing that holds the wires together will insulate it but it is not code and should never be done because you are tempting fate.

You can connect ground to the insulated white neutral wire at the dryer if your dryer instructions allow it (some dryers are 4 wire only) but you should never hook neutral to the bare ground wire.

Yeah, I had a lint fire in my gas fired dryer. Fortunately limited to bottom of dryer, no damage, but the potential is definitely there... I keep the front bottom panel right off so I can easily inspect, and now clean up lint regularly with shop vac...

When my old dryer died, I bought a good used. Old dryer was 3 prong, 3 wire. New dryer was 4 prong, 4 wire.

Actually got some good advice at Home Depot. Took the 3 prong, 3 wire off the old dryer, took the 4 prong, 4 wire off the new and put the 3 prong, 3 wire on the new dryer.

Its been several months ago and I"m not at home, so I can"t go look at how its wired. If I remember correctly, one hot goes to the outside on the left and one to the outside on the right with the ground in the middle.

Dryer works great.

You are absolutely right. Lint build up will cause a fire. We didn't have a fire, but we were very close to having one.

The vent for our dryer has louvers covering it. I had noticed it seemed to be taking extra time for the clothes to dry. One evening I put a load in the dryer, turned it on and headed for the the house (washer/dryer are in the garage).

I noticed the louvers for the dryer vent were not standing open like they did when the air from the dryer was coming out. Put my hand over the vent and no air was coming out.

Turned the dryer off and checked the vent. Over the years bits of lint that the lint screen hadn't caught had built up on the louvers and the vent was clogged.

Spent the next 20 minutes clearing the vent. That lint was hot. Pulled a large wad out of the vent. Lesson well learned.

Now I periodically check the vent and remove any lint build up.

Uncle lost home 2 years ago to dryer lint fire.
Town 50 miles South lost large high end supper club to same thing. With 4 kids we do ALOT of laundry. I clean my vents and dryer 2x a year.

Sure it can work great,,,,,,,,HOWEVER I have to in good faith and conscience with your safety in mind disagree that you "got some "good" advice at Home Depot" iffffffffffffff (note MY IF) what they did was advise you to hook up a new 4 wire dryer using an old 3 wire branch circuit (again if thats indeed what they did???). Again SURE it can be made to work thats NOT the issue, the issue is life safety!!!!!!!!!!!!

NOTE if the new dryer has the equipment ground bonded to the metal frame but the Neutral is isolated from frame (as the case in a modern 4 wire) there has to be a return current conductor so the 120 volt loads work and ifffffffff they are working they must be getting their return curent path somewhere DUH so if theres only 3 wires to the dryer (if 2 hots and an equipment ground????) they have to be using the Equipment Ground to carry Neutral current NO NO !!!!!!!!

NOTE ALSO if the Equipment Ground IS NOT bonded to the dryers metal frame (but 120 loads can still work mind you) that can create a hazard but IF IT IS and if also the 120 volt loads are working (given only a 3 wire branch circuit) THEN THE DRYERS METAL CASE FRAME BECOMES A PART OF THE LIVE HOT NEUTRAL CIRCUIT (sure you want your wet barefoot grandkids to touch that???????????????)

SEE HOW ITS A LOSE LOSE PROPOSITION IN EITHER OF THE ABOVE ?????

If the branch circuit you used is only a three wire (iffffff (Note my if) it has 2 hots and an equipment Ground and NO Neutral) and iffffffffff the dryer has BOTH 120 and 240 volt loads, THAT MEANS YOURE USING THE EQUIPMENT GROUND TO CARRY NEUTRAL CURRENT AND THATS A DEFINITE NO NO AND A CODE AS WELL AS A SAFETY PROBLEM. The equipment ground (A GroundING Conductor) is intended to be a dedicated conductor to ONLY carry fault current NOT normal Neutral return current for 120 volt loads !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you notice a branch circuits White Neutral (A GrounDED Conductor) IS AN INSULATED CONDUCTOR, its a live current carrying conductor and its insualted so you dont come in contact with a live current carrier. HOWEVER the Equipment GroundING Conductor is often bare HMMMMMMMMMMMMM thats because it normally carries NO CURRENT its a dedicated circuit for carrying FAULT CURRENT ONLY.

Would you scrape the insulation off the White Neutral wire in a circuit and let your child touch it ???????????? I doubt it buttttttttttttt if the Equipment Ground (the often bare or green wire) is used as the hot live current carrying conductor and if its bonded to an appliances outer metal case/enclosure (as the equipment ground is) IF YOU TOUCH THE APLIANCE (kind of hard NOT to do that ya know) thats in effect whay youre doing YOURE TOUCHING A LIVE CURRENT CARRIER just like if you removed the Neutrals insulation and touched it which I bet you dont do!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Soooooooooooo I dont meant to argure or fight ONLY to try and educate lay persons about a safety issue that may save their or their kids or grandkids life. Theres plenty of uneducated uninformed pencil necked lay geeks out there at Home Depot etc that may think they know it all and are giving "good" advice HOWEVER that dont means its true or accurate. I am a long retired electrical distribution design engineer and am rusty on this and sure dont know it all and could be wrong as rain HOWEVER ITS MY TRUE BELIEF AND I IN GOOD FAITH HAVE TO ADVISE FOLKS TO NOT CONFUSE NEUTRALS AND EQUIPMENT GROUNDS AND TRUST IN WHAT THE NATIONAL ELECTRICAL CODE EXPERTS ADVISE IF THEY DONT BELIEVE ME

Pleaseeeeeeeeee be safe and take the advice of the National Electrical Code EXPERTS versus whats said by me (although I sincerely believe Im correct) or the Home Depot clerks IT COULD SAVE A LIFE

God Bless yall, take care n be safe now

John T NOT to argue or fight but trying my best to avoid a potential hazard.....If it works great but can still kill you, DOES THAT MAKE IT OKAY?? You be the Judge, gonna trust the National Electrical Code EXPERTS (do NOT take my word for it) or the Geek at Home Depot????????? Think about it

As previously stated what will "work' and what is "safe" are not always the same.

The four wire system subjects users to fewer shocks and fire than three wire.
Three wire even when working can raise a voltage on the ground system. Which is supposed to be at earth potential. Livestock don't like shocks when touching water bowls etc.
Also as stated. Time for two brand new dryer circuits and separate breakers.
Electrical service grounding should be inspected too. Old services tend to have just one small ground rod and maybe damaged/corroded.Too often we find grounds to water systems with plastic water pipe sections.
Speaking of dyer fires. That flex plastic wire wound dryer pipe should be banned.All metal or nothing. The plastic hose sags, kinks, blocks airflow, collects lint and raises temps.

I'm concerned about the 'resolve never to use both at the same time' part. That is not legal, to code, safe, or good for any future home owners.

It's just not right.


As to the 3 vs 4 prong, most driers are sold without a cord new, you buy the 3 or 4 prong cord you need seperate. As some have shown, there are different ways to set up the drier to work as 3 or 4 prong.

Again, what you did by tying in the 4 wires into the 3 wire is not real good. For all the same reasons as the 2 driers on one circut is bad.....

You shoulda wired for the 3 wire plug, and put a 3 wire cord on the drier.

I have real reservations about the 2 different issues you have created. You can make that work, but there is a lot of bad things there. It's the reason we all soon won't be able to do our own wiring any more - too many poeple make things too dangerous for unsuspecting people that enter the house.

Wiring from the main box to the new drier with 4 wire woulda not been much harder, and sure would have been a good job.

Now you got a mess, stuck in the middle of 2 problems that are not good.

This is sorta like you did a plumbing job, and tapped into any pipes you found in the wall. Yea, you can get water to flow, but is it hot water, cold water, does it drain into the septic or does it go out through the sump pump to the front lawn? It's all scrambled up now, it looks like it works, but it's messy.

I'm cheap too love to save a buck, but this wouldn't have been the place to go that route.

--->Paul

wired up correctly now ,, new 30 amp breaker with 10-3 with grond to new dryer ,,, old dryer going on craigslist ,although plug is ready to go if needed , wirin is seperate in basement for both dryers ,

Listen to John T and do it right. Unless you have NO conscience. In that case don't touch MY wiring. Another safe electrician for 40 years. Dave