OT-American Soldier

DH in Carolina · Mar 18, 2012

What are your thoughts on the American Soldier who killed 16 people in Afghanistan? Should he be charged with murder or should the military try to help him and his family? Why does the military deploy someone five times and not see a problem?
Being a Vietnam Veteran myself, I saw some pretty bad things, but this guy saw a lot more I'm sure. I know its not right what this man did but there are two sides to this. Please don't get political. DH

bo · Mar 18, 2012

If you were a Nam vet, you wouldn't ask this question.

DH in Carolina · Mar 18, 2012

I asked for opinions and did not give mine. 69-70 101st Camp Eagle.

oldtanker · Mar 18, 2012

bo, I don't know about that. Was in the news a few days bofre this happened that the military pulled the PTSD diagnoses of a lot of guys claiming that it was wrong. So the question is legit. Was the guy off his rocker? Was some general responsible for putting pressure on the docs so that units were at full manning to deploy? Guess we will just have to watch and see.

Rick

shaun wallace · Mar 18, 2012

We have wore these boys out. Send over there for 12-15 months,home 2-3 weeks then back again and again. Other problem is they dont know who the enemy is.Today they shake your hand,tommorow blow you up. Some wemen and children are going to have to be killed to make them beleive. But that doest work either. Its an ideaology that their so called good book is taught them by some guys that wouldnt do what they send them out to do.

bo · Mar 18, 2012

Ok..then you shouldn't ask this question, you should know the answer.

Phil in Pa · Mar 18, 2012

I figure I can't judge the situation without knowing the facts of what went on.

I also know I can't rely on the news media for all the facts.

LAA · Mar 18, 2012

The media lies so much regarding the military that an accurate assessment based on the information in the press is impossible. The truth will eventually come out and he will either be exonerated or we will find out that his problems were ignored by his command, at any rate, it should never rise to murder charges given the circumstances.

Howard H. · Mar 18, 2012

That is sure a tough, tough call...

When I first heard about it - I thought we should just hand the guy over to the Afghans and let them deal with him.

From 1) the immense damage he did to the entire US effort; he has now wasted a lot of the good that was coming from all the sacrifices all the other soldiers have made,

2) to the increased jeopardy he put ALL the rest of the American soldiers in now,

3) to giving the opposition over there reason to try and pull more attacks in the future like 9-11, etc...

4) the simple fact that he apparently committed 16 cold-blooded murders of women and children

Why in the world SHOULD the US try defend him? Why should we not just make an example of him??

But in the more recent reports, at least this guy doesn't sound like that psycho killer Green in Iraq who raped that teenage girl and killed and burned her family. He was just a criminal in uniform.

If this guy was just a nice guy who was doing his best and then snapped from all the pressure, it is just sad, sad, bad situation all around...

There are sure a lot of great soldiers that have made tremendous sacrifices and NOT gone psycho and he has hurt all of them...

Howard

Billy Shafer · Mar 18, 2012

I am also a nam vet. Rules were broken many times to make a unit look good. I am sure they still are.

After all the lies we were told in nam. I will wait for the facts to come out before I would judge him.What he did was wrong,but why is another story.

Ultradog MN · Mar 18, 2012

Maybe give the guy a medal?
I do not subscribe to the notion of non combatants.
Just like at My Lai there are NO non combatants.
Just because a wife or mom or grandpa doesn't pick up a rifle and start shooting Americans doesn't mean they aren't giving aid and comfort to those who do carry rifles.
It's time Americans go back and reread Machiavelli. It's time to make killing American troops so painful to not only the perpatrators but also their loved ones that they think twice about the consequences.
Or go back reread about the firebombing of Japanese cities in WWII.
This quote is memorable:

"Yutaka Akabane, a senior level civil servant, observed that

It was the raids on the medium and smaller cities which had the worst effect and really brought home to the people the experience of bombing and a demoralization of faith in the outcome of the war.... It was bad enough in so large a city as Tokyo, but much worse in the smaller cities, where most of the city would be wiped out. Through May and June the spirit of the people was crushed. (When B-29s dropped propaganda pamphlets) the morale of the people sank terrifically, reaching a low point in July, at which time there was no longer hope of victory or draw but merely desire for ending the war. "

And please don't call me some ignorant, gung ho, armchair general.
I've read enough history to understand that
wars are a bloody, messy, sad business. But if you are gonna have one then you'd better be in it to win. None of this half fast, pussyfooting around like we've been doing for the last 45 years.

37chief · Mar 18, 2012

I'll bet this soldier will be tried and convected before the fort hood shooter ever goes to trial. How come the Fort Hood shooter, who killed 13 soldiers, and had ties with al Qaeda leades, is still alive anyway. Stan

Marc_FL · Mar 18, 2012

Let it go through the the Military Code of Uniform Justice then render an opinion.

But that aside multiple tours are nuts (hard enough on RA rediculous for NG / USAR folks. It took four years for WWII and now 10 for this "war".

Next time we decide to get into once of these "conflicts" declare war, reinstitute the draft (no deferments) and let muffy and buffy start humping ammo and carrying the M-60 and 90, through the "jungle"..

Things would be different..

As I was going to get my commission (military college), Calley was several years before me, nothing was brought up and nothing was mentioned.

Marc_FL · Mar 18, 2012

Correction: Uniform Code of Military Justice.

steve706 · Mar 18, 2012

Does the Geneva Convention not apply any more? In the the Canadian army we were taught that harming civilians was a crime, cut and dry, no gray areas. On the Somalia mission troops from the Canadian Airborne regiment tortured and killed teenage kids who where stealing food and water. Those guy's are still behind bars and the regiment is gone. That was an over reaction but it was delt with openly. If someone carries out a crime while serving their country they should be held accountable plain and simple. If the guy is insane he should be delt with as an insane person would be and locked away in a hospital for his own safety as well as the public. As for turning him over to the afghan government, if the roles where reversed the shooter would end up in Gitmo not back in his home country, why is that? Fighting and winning a war with two sets of rules never leads to a clean victory. Every war that has taken place in the last hundred years has been different and war fighting will continue to evolve. I served overseas in the early 90's and freely admit that I am out of my league when it comes the situations these guys face every day. The only answers that will come will be from those fresh back. I do not envy them.

Anonymous-0 · Mar 18, 2012

Forget about him being a soldier........... What if your next door neighbor had done it or your cousin bubba at the gasstation???

Wrong is wrong, no matter the reason... At the risk of sacrificing my people skills, I say turn him over to the Afghans and let them take care of it. Saw his head off withn a butter knife and play soccer with it. Think about if it was your wife or kids he wiped out (while some were sleeping)....

I love my Country and I love our Soldiers.... This guy had a choice that day of walking downtown and killing innocent folks or walking over to see the Chaplain or even one of his buddies....... Regardless of the reasoning, if your favorite dog flips out one day and wipes out your chicken flock, you're gonna kill him or have him do it again....

Anonymous-0 · Mar 18, 2012

Just to put a different spin on things, what about the American pilot that ignored orders and killed 4 Canadian soldiers doing night training exercises? He was too gung ho and tried to be a hero. I suspect that there are a lot more in the military just like him. It has been proven that soldiers can get really messed up in these conflicts. Even in W.W.II when bombing Germany, they weren't sent to bomb civilian targets. Yes, civilians were killed but they weren't the planned target. The inventor of the bouncing bomb to blow up the damns was almost wishing he hadn't invented it after he found out thousands of civilians were killed from the massive flooding.

M-MAN · Mar 18, 2012

It is a sad situation with no good answer's. Sometimes people's mind's just snap & they do thing's they woulden't even dream of normally. We've all seen it here in the States from ordinary folk's that have nowhere near the stress put on our soldiers. It's a military problem & it's their duty to bring him home and deal with it. JMO

jamesinok · Mar 18, 2012

Give him a medal. You train young people to kill enemy in enemy territory, give the wherewithal to kill people and act surprised when it happens. The U S govt has no business traing people to kill, send them to another country to kill and then want to prosecute when happens so they can be politically correct. The enemy does not apologize for cutting our soldiers heads off or setting of IED to maime the soldiers driving on the road. Make the enemy understand the value of an American Soldiers life.

wisbaker · Mar 18, 2012

Our current opponent does not recognize "lawful combatants" and will do whatever using whoever to kill Americans. One of the aspects of leadership is those you lead into battle must respect the leader and that their sacrifice is for the mission the greater good. Unfortunately much of our military leadership doesn't enjoy the respect because their actions are often more self serving than mission serving. In OTS we are taught that we can't issue orders merely for convenience, nor disobey an order because it's inconvenient.
At my last duty station I watched an 0-7 (Brigadier General) issue an order contrary to an Air Staff order because it wasn't convenient for him to follow the order. Yes folks really wanted to follow him, and risk dying just so he can get another star. With out that trust and faith in the leadership our soldiers might tend to start acting in their own best interests. Don't get me wrong, the shooter was wrong but I have to lay some blame on the officers that were supposed to be leading him, obviously they didn't have a clue. I'm not saying they are criminal but probably don't belong in Military leadership positions after missing this time bomb.

Red Mud · Mar 18, 2012

They shouldn't have put him in a Federal prison, he should have been put in the brig for a few days and then sent back to his unit..

Bill(Wis) · Mar 18, 2012

He's not in a Federal Prison. He's being held at the United States Disciplinary Barracks at Fort Leavenworth, KS. The Federal Prison at Leavenworth, KS is 4 miles down the road and has no connection whatsoever to the USDB.

barnE · Mar 18, 2012

Was he a killer when he enlisted? Makes a lot of difference. Dave

Keith Molden · Mar 18, 2012

I have mixed feelings about this guy. But the one thing I sure don't have mixed feelings about is our president and commander in chief appologizing to these countries for every little thing that happens. OK he killed some people, it's called WAR. I haven't heard them say they're sorry for killing our people, either there or here in the U.S. When I first arrived in country in Viet Nam, I couldn't understand why some of our troops were treating the civillians so badly, by the time I left, I was to the point of hateing them as well. War does that to you when you've seem your fellow man killed before your eyes. Do any of you guys remember the civillians that would put grenades in pop or beer cans, or the ladies that put the razor blades in their most delicate places. They killed and injured alot of our troops, and I don't imagine time has changed things very much from then to now. If you haven't been there, don't condem him. Just my thoughts, keith

dieseldoc · Mar 18, 2012

they didnt care when they crashed into the towers. war is war and people die

Rick Kr · Mar 18, 2012

Know a few people that are Vietnam vets. Not just enlisted during that time, actual ground combat troops. Lifelong friends, one a sniper, other a ranger in Desert Storm, another a helicopter pilot.

They have told me stories that they experienced, lived through, saw some of their own not live through. I never solict these stories. The stories come out when THEY feel like talking about it. To see them choke/tear up over what they had to do, witnessed, or experienced its almost beyond belief. Imagine these stories are just scratching the surface of whats locked up in their minds. Makes me choked up just listening to them using me as a sounding board.

I don"t know if I could answer your question. But, if this soldier is forced into some kind of court proceedings, I hope his jury is made up of 12 combat soldiers. Similar to the soldiers I know.

And for those of you that have seen combat, you are made a whole lot tougher than probably could ever be put in words.

My thoughts,
Rick

JerryS · Mar 18, 2012

I don't feel legally or morally qualified to judge how this young man should be handled by either the military or civilian legal system, but he has certainly dropped a deuce in the punchbowl. This one action has negated any beneficial effect of many billions of dollars spent on trying to nudge the Afghans into the 21st century, if that was ever an objective of U.S. policy. The young American lives lost and ruined are a whole 'nother discussion.

The new reality is, these cave-dwellers have their own ideas of justice, very direct and very unequivocal, and I'm afraid of how those ideas are going to play out. Sorry to say it, but I look for them to grab one or more of our guys (or worse, our girls) and hold them hostage demanding we turn the shooter over to them. How would we deal with that? I'm glad I'm not a commander on the ground over there, responsible for a lot of young lives. Maybe bummer's right: maybe it's time to declare victory and come home.

Anonymous-0 · Mar 18, 2012

Probably finish in a Psychiatric hospital for a long time unfortunately, but what gave me the irrits was that big mouth Kazai sounding off when I did not see anything attributed to him when those 6 Brits were blown up or any other multiple deaths for that matter.
He wants to wake up and see who is keeping him there in his royal splendour because when they go so will he. The milch cow will die.

Anonymous-0 · Mar 18, 2012

The threatened burning of the Koran by that Cleric or the recent burnings in Afghanistan never affected the effort?Just showed me TEN wasted years.

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