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Last Angry Farmer - Part III

L

LJD

Well-known Member
This is an update to the ticked off farmer saga in my town. He has the last farm within village limits where now farming is "illegal." Any old farms are grandfathered in and allowed to operate until activity ceases for 1 year. If a farmer stops for one year - the farm can never operate again. I'm glad I don't live in any villages!

I posted the various signs he's been putting up. This is directly across the street from a Stewarts Shop where police often hang out and 1/4 mile from the Interstate.

This all started when the farmer wanted to run for political office. He lost and told anyone who didn't vote for him - how dumb they are. Then he got in a fight with the local State Environmental Officer. He caught the cop trespassing on his land and threw him off. Later the same cop arrested the farmer for shooting a raccoon "too close to town."

So, here are some of the former photos - and the lasted that showed up this morning.

For context - here a view of Stewarts on one side and his farm on the State Highway - across the road.

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And the chronology of signs and note - Mark Vencak is the local New York Environmenatal officer . .

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Yeah, but only to a certain extent. There are laws that say that if YOU own a gun (your property) you are not allowed to shoot ME in the head with it. I'm OK with that and I'm not a fascist.

Completely liberty is NO liberty since anyone is free to take another person's rights away.

That is why the concept of democracy has never worked and the reason why the USA is NOT a democracy.

In regard to farming being illegal in town? Yes, it's ridiculous. Same goes with Adverse Possession being permitted all over the USA.
 
Keep us posted,I think this guy is on the right track. He was there first, if they don"t like him they have the option to buy him out. If he will sell. But as the story goes they will try to find someway to run him off. I can guess how it will end?
 
No local police here. Just State police with nearest headquarters 25 miles away. They often hang out at the Stewarts Shop since the Interstate is right behind it.

Only thing close to local law here is the Forest Ranger/Environmetal Cop. He happens to live in town and he is the one being written about on the bill-board. Mark Vancek.
 
1-I said nothing about shooting someone, however if I'm threatened, yes I do have the right to do what is necessary. But what I said was in a free country a person should have the right to use thier property as they see fit.
2-You don't like democracy? What do you suggest we replace it with, communism? Democracy did not fail, ignorant and complacent people failed.
 
This country is not and never has been a democracy. The founding fathers established this country as a representative republic. We don't get a direct say,we elect people to make decisions for us,and thank God they had the foresight to set it up that way. It's these ballot initiatives that are ruining the country as much as lawyers are. Direct democracy is based purely on emotion and not on information or thinking things through. When we elect people to make important decisions,it's supposed to be their job to take the time to become educated about the issues that they are voting on and NOT base their votes on emotion. If your elected officials aren't doing that,I'd suggest you elect somebody else.
 
The idea of unlimited freedom on your own land is just total nonsense. You can"t dam a stream and deprive people downstream of water. You can"t discharge fire arms near a population center. You can"t start fires during burn ban periods etc. These laws are for the freedom and protection of everybody.
 
LJD. Thanks for the reply. Kind of sounds like the same little town I grew up in in Wyoming. Would like to come back to that area someday when I retire and look at all the old barns before they are all torn down but I will probably never get to. Have a good day.
 
Stewarts gets their milk from 39 local farms. I'm surprised the village does not have any ordinances regarding signage.

If (and I could do the same here as it's on a hill and visible to the state road) or on our lot next to the road, the town code would probably prohibit it, you can't have a business sign in the residential section, and I live in the center of town which is except our place A42 Ag zoned, yet there are 4 legit business's with signage within 1/2 mile of each other and me, one is adjacent to our lot but no signage to comply, almost 2 dozen work vans, town does not like when you bring that up at all, really ironic the cronyism, town supervisor is co owner with his brother of one of the largest dairies still in operation in this town and or county, know them well. I never really figured out why those other business's that are in former residential homes can exist,the section is not zoned commercial. I'd probably do the same as this farmer when the time comes to get the zoning changed in the lot we have, due to what I mentioned, they are real hard@sses about variances, but 2 things stick in mind, the other business's in place many years now, (not grandfathered as people lived in those homes) and in violation of the zoning code and the demonstrated financial hardship (necessitating a variance) of paying land taxes, well I'm off subject now but signs like those would draw an immense amount of attention here and would be interesting to see how long they would be up.

Well it appears funny, the signage and who does not like a person who does not take crap, but in reality its really sad when things have to get like that, nothing good comes of it, gets costly, next thing you know it escalates into a bad situation.

I've done battle in town here and won, made the front page of the local paper, but eyes are on you for a long time after, make one wrong move during that time, which I did, started another skirmish, won that one too, cost me atty fees though, had another incident 3 years ago, involving criminal charges stemming from evicting someone who was trying adverse possession on our lot, it turned real ugly real quick, was reduced to disorderly conduct and not to brag, and knock on wood, somehow the fine was forgotten, (unwritten courtesy?), cooperating with the sheriff deputy fully, I told him the given history and requested one of the judges, (whom is a dairyman, one of the nicest people you would ever meet, and extremely professional as a judge compare to the other guy a a NYSP retiree who needed to recuse himself given our history, which of course involved him screaming at me once many years prior, threatening me with jail time after making a deal with the D.A. for the "skirmish" Looking back, I get respect from the town, and just the same try to return same, was a rocky road for awhile though and I don't recommend traveling it unless you have no choice. You should see the look on that other judge,(hard to recognize any of these guys as judges, they never passed a bar exam) when I run smack into him sometimes when going across the road for breakfast, (he's there precisely the same time every day) which I don't do often, just smile and say hello, (mumbling other fine vocabulary under my breath) LOL !
 
You've lost me with whatever you're using for reasoning. USA has NEVER been a democracy and I hope to heck it never happens. Likely we'll be 100% socialist first - we're half-way there already with our current king.

You stated "Anyone that tells another person what they can or can't do with their property is a fascist."

As I said, if you owned a gun, that would be included as your "personal property." And if you could do whatever you wanted -you could shoot me in the head (or maybe even a more critical area).

As to Democracy? Seems you know little about it. Our Founding Fathers spoke openly about how poorly democracies operate and how quickly they fail. A simple democracy can be near the same as a communist society in principal. With communism - all is commonly owned and therefore society is class-less. Democracy? Everyone has equal rights and equal say. Makes it near impossible to make decisions on anything since consensus or mutual agreement is needed. Ben Franklin used the American Indians as a prime example. Within Indian groups e.g. the Huron or Iroquois - every person had equal say and therefore -it was mayhem. To the converse, Ben Franklin, Tom Jefferson, and John Adams favored governments more like the United Provinces - AKA "Dutch Republic" of their time.

If you happen to be a USA citizen, read up on representative Federal Republic and find out what kind of country you are living in.
 
While I agree with the signs for the most part, the place looks like a dump. The 2nd, 3rd and 5th pictures there is junk all around the machine shed, there is a stock tank flipped on its side and looks like a plastic stock tank resting against the tree.

If the place was clean and somewhat presentable, I would believe his arguement a little more. Stack your tires in a pile. Line up your wagons. All farms have equipment, but surprised that code enforcement isn"t on him to clean the place up.

Notice, I didn"t say a thing about painting the barns which is a major expense. Just organize your equipment.

Rick
 
Signs ARE basically illegal here. The law just isn't enforced - or at least not equally.

Signage law for the entire town - not just the village - states that signs promoting anything can only be ON the property where the actual service being promoted is taking place. Said service has to be legal. So, I can hang signs all over my properties advertising "I fix tractors" as long as I'm actually fixing tractors on those properties. I cannot stick a sign on the other side of town where I still own an old barn - directing people to find me elsewhere.

But signs with complaints that are non-business related? If it's on a person's own property, it's legal.
 
I said nothing about daming streams, reckless discharge of a firearm, or improper destruction of trash. I will not have you putting words in my mouth to get around the issue at hand. That is underhanded, disrespectful, and disgraceful. You know very well the point I was making. I am now done with you narrow minded nuisances.
 
Code enforcement is empowered to enforce local laws and no more. Last I checked, there is no law that makes being sloppy - illegal. At least not here - yet. If the guy owns the land, and he pays his taxes - and he doesn't have toxic chemical leaching into other's properties - why should anyone else have any say in the mattter?
 
JD,
I don't disagree with what you are saying at all. I actually agree with your comment. My point was, I think the farmer may garner more public sentiment if the place was a little more organized.

Rick
 
I too have been in several legal battles with the town and have also been on the front page of the newspaper several times (Oneonta Daily Star). I was usually depicted as the rural "local wack-job." That's OK. I proved the Town Board, Town Highway Supervisor and Town Attorney wrong several times. Luckily I got the State Attorney General on my side. I've been regarded as a local oddity for near 40 years now. Last bout was a few years ago when the town tried to take some of my land by Eminent Domain.

I went through something similar in northern Michigan where I own and "extra" small farm. After going to court with Lansing officials - I got the governor's office on my side to back me up. That's when they had Jennifer Granholm. Only time I've ever gotten help from a abundant.

So yeah, I won and lost at the same time. I don't even feel "home" in my home area anymore. In reality, the local population is totally different now anyway. 30-40 years ago this was a farming community. Now? It's a abundant haven for teachers, medical workers, and state workers - who think cows are cute only when viewed from a distance. Tractors are cute only when shiny and not making noise.
 
I can understand you friend's frustration. However he does come across as "A neighbor from he77" himself.

If he is within village limits he could easily get the property re-zoned for commercial, industrial or residential use and then sell the property for much more than it's worth as farm ground. Many farmers on the edge of towns sell to a developer and then buy two to five times as much ground further out in the country for the same money. People do that all the time.

He has to remember he has neighbors too. At over 400 people there are probably 150 homes or more next to his farm. He has livestock in town? This isn't the 1800's anymore. In a town the smell of manure is like crying babies and barking dogs, people barely tolerate those things when they are their own.

Has that barn been painted in the last thirty years? It looks like an eyesore unpainted like that with rusty equipment scattered about. Unkept property like that is an invitation for other people to look at it and imagine how they could put it to better use.

The village has grown up around him, that's a benefit most farmers don't have. He can continue to fight it for a while or he can work with it for his own benfit and the village's benefit too.

Good luck.
 

LJD Reminds me of a situation near where I live. An old timer lived on a dirt dead end road and had a few acres of land down in a valley that was useless for farming. He lived in an old shack down there and ran a small salvage yard. It was sort of an out of sight and out of mind situation.

A small town near by decided to put in a new entrance into town so they rerouted one highway and widened another and put in an interchange where the two highways and the town entrance met.

When the final grading is finished and many trees are removed lo and behold here is a salvage yard that is an eyesore and will have to go as it offends the city fathers.

This old guy was in his 70’s when the fight started and he still had some old street cars on the property (must have been there awhile I haven’t seen many street cars for sale lately) he fought them in court ignored every cease business order issued and actually went overboard buying more junk to bring in to create a bigger eyesore, in the end of course after 12 or so years of fighting all the way to the State Supreme Court the state moved in and begin the cleanup for which they charged the property owner. About the time the cleanup got underway the old fellow died.

He sure fought the fight and never gave an inch and never backed up at times I think the stubborn old coot enjoyed poking his finger in the eye of the local “Stuffed Shirts”.

As I understood it at the time he had no heirs to leave anything to; so he spent it all annoying the people that want to run him off the place he had owned for years and also he accused them of Interfering with his way of making a living.
 
He hasn't been there long. That farm was previously owned by a long-time friend, but he retired and sold it a few years ago. He had been there 60 years. He got a hernia and had to go to Canada to get an operation since he had no health insurance. Much cheaper in Canada if you're a USA citizen paying cash. He almost lost his right to farm since he was almost out for a full year. If 12 months passes with no farm use - no more farm ever.

I don't agree with your "not 1800s anymore" sentiment. The new guy wanted to farm and bought this place as a legal farm - period. He didn't come here and THEN try to change the laws like many other city-type people do. I don't care if it's 1795 (when the farm started there) or 2012. If people around the area don't like the farm there - maybe they should not of moved nearby to start with.

As to the village "growing up" around him? In 1850, this was a much more active village with many more local business. Hardware, milling, railroad, feed stores, tractor dealers, three car dealerships, clothing stores, drug stores, several butcher shops, etc. Now - 2012 - we have almost nothing. Stewarts Shop, NAPA auto parts store, and a small diner. It's the brains inside the people that has changed - not the "growing up" town. We're in rural area - not in a city somewhere. Big problem is - city people keep moving in here because of it's "picturesque rural character." Then once here, they do all they can to make it just like the city they fled.
 
One slight correction before I get hammered. New car dealerships didn't come here until 1930. Were "wagon shops" in 1850. As of 1980, we still had two - Pontiac and Chevy. Last one - a Chevy dealer got "removed" by Government Motors" last year. Now the ex-Chevy dealer is trying to make a go of it as general repair shop.
 
Yes . . maybe true but so what? Since when are people required to live up to the personal standards of others who think differently? I've yet to hear a valid argument on the importance of "pride." If he owns it and he pays his taxes - it perplexes me how others seem to think they have a say in the matter of this guy's life - or mine.

This is an old tractor site - correct? I know there are people who hate old tractors and only regard a tractor as good when new and shiny. So - should they be allowed to stop us from buying old iron - and maybe ban this Website? Same reasoning as your's - in my opinion.
 
(quoted from post at 14:13:30 02/11/12) Code enforcement is empowered to enforce local laws and no more. Last I checked, there is no law that makes being sloppy - illegal. At least not here - yet. If the guy owns the land, and he pays his taxes - and he doesn't have toxic chemical leaching into other's properties - why should anyone else have any say in the mattter?
Click to expand...

Because the condition of his property has a direct relationship to the value of the property of those around him. You being a slob makes it harder for me to sell my property as no one wants to live next to you.
 
So...your friend recently bought a farm knowing it was within village limits and now he wants the village to go away? I wish him luck with that.
 
That's fine. If I was here first and you don't like my place - don't move next to me and we'll both be happy.

That farm has looked like that for as far as I can remember. If being there has kept down property values - then it's helped people get bargains who DO want to live nearby.

Personally, I want my property to be worth as little as possible to keep my taxes down. I'll take low taxes over "pride" any day. I got my place to live in - not as sort h*lf-*ssed investment.
 
What is the purpose of the two story bump-out on this neat old barn? I don't think I have ever seen a two story... only one story for the milk house.
 
Hey LJD, what do the village smart folks call "farm activity"? If an old cow is graze'n on a hillside is that activity or do folks have to show paper work that they sold something off the farm?

I am so glad I live in a county that doesn't even have zone'n laws!!! Only permit I have ever had was when I was 16, had to have a permit before I got my driver's licence. Old man died about 5 years ago but untill then we had a guy who kept two sows and a boar in his back yard bout two blocks from the court house.

Dave
 
Not to be a worry wort, JD it looks like that road is a state route.

The state owns the rights 33 1/3 feet from the centerline. If you don't have a license (comes with a little license plate) they can come out and remove the sign.

Other than that looks like free expression. Near me in Potsdam the village would not let a fellow in town sell his land to be used for a Stewarts and he now has the land decorated with probably 30+ toilets with plastic flowers in them...love it!

Brad
 
where I grew up in nj, there were 3 old farmers ,and their place was not a fancy farm,a lot of new people used to complain it was a mess,and the town thought so too,now that the last of the 3 old farmers died,and left his property to be a park and soccer field for all the towns children,they have a picture on the wall of the municipal building,I guess hes ok now
 
LJD,

Is that the Stewart's shop right off I-88 in Worcester? Across the street there is a Sunoco station headed towards East Worcester and Richmondville?


bob
 
No. My friend was the previous owner. The guy who bought it recently did so knowing it was still legal to farm there - as I already explained. What part of "legal" don't you understand?

It is illegal for any new farms to start - and older existing farms can continue forever - unless there is a 12 month gap in operation the farm-business.

You sound like one of local and clueless politicians.
 
I don't agree with all his tactics, however it is his place and his choice on how to keep it up. I LIKE JUNK, that is why I like old junk tractors and machinery. That being said I also like to try and keep my place as neat and respectable as I can. If I had a messy neighbor it may irritate me as it may to anyone, but messy is just an eyesore if he is easy to get along with. Different strokes for different folks
 
Just a comment on signs. There is case law from the US Supreme court regarding signs as covered by the constitution. I had a fight with our code enforcement officer about political and other signs I had promoting a company. The signs were on my property and not on a public right of way. The Twp. has a ordenance that says you have to have a permit which is $35.00 and the political signs have to be removed 30 days after election. The Supreme Court has ruled that signs may be placed on your own property without a permit and without paying a fee. They ruled that freedom of speach has no time limit and no one can charge you for it.
The Twp. no longer enforces signage that is on private property.
I am not saying I agree or disagree with the farmers sign
 
Our neighbors in Ohio had old Dodges wrecked in a creek and one had 7 or 8 49 to 53 Chevies propped up on 4x4's so he could get the trannies out. They were visible only in the winter. I thought it was normal. My bil has a neighbor who got divorced and threw all his living room furniture out in the yard. Has been there six months. City has cited him numerous times. Nice neighborhood, too. We may sneek over and clean it up if the guy isn't home. No call for that mess that long.
 
Jde. I get the dam+est kick out of peoples thinking. Down the road from me use to live a fellow who had a mule and old cars and such. Loved the guy.He passed away and the son took over the property and built a lot of equipment from tractors(a huge forklift)and as time went by, he accumulated debt he couldn't pay back. Lost the property and was bought up by folks who made improvements like re modeling the house, new drain field, deck, drive around driveway, garden etc.Now I'm not one who ever intends to tell any one how to live or how to clean up their property in order to please me and the way I want them to live. Zoning laws are with in reason when it comes to having a foundry starting up 200 feet from my house, other wise folks can build to suit themselves as long as it doesn't become a rats nest haven.I like your opinions stated, and I can say they merit the truth through out the post. Live and let live is a great idea as long as there isn't a health hazard or noise situation looming on the horizon. Thanks for the post and pictures. Warmest regards LOU
 
Keep us informed please,One day they will nail him with some obscure ordinance which dates back to the Kings Reign , in the meantime power to him.
I think he would have 2 words to cover this situation, the second one would be "off".
 
Kinda like a cat and mouse game! My brother was just telling me tonight that 1 out of three calls made by some do gooder to the nys troopers, brought them to this lake my brother and maybe 6 other guys race dirtbikes with studded tires on the ice. Some guys there have been doing it for 30 years. Well this lady dosent like the noise, its only on sundays or some weekdays after noon. cop came out and told them they wernt doing anything wrong, i guess u don't have to register a dirtbike?? But an atv, snowmobile have to be registered?? They also can't drive a truck on the lake, last year they were plowing the oval with a truck so they got a ticket, this year they got a farm tractor with a big snowblower on it for clearing the track,,, but we haven't had any snow! Lol
 
This guy bought the place, like 5 years ago, right?

Surely he knew then that the town was trying to squeeze the place out. Sorry, but he's the idiot that moved in next to the "undesirables," not the other way around.

He knowingly moved in next to a bunch of farm-hating townies. That's his fault.

You don't buy a house located off the end of an active airport runway. You don't buy a house next to an active farm. You don't buy a house next to a railroad. You don't buy a house next to a factory. Why would you buy a farm in the middle of a village?
 
I must admit - I'm amazed at some of the shallow-minded people on this forum -considering it's focus is old farm tractors. I'm also constantly amazed at the reading-comp deficits here with a select few.

I don't agree. Friend of mine ran that farm his entire adult life and never had any noteworthy issues in regard to farming. It IS legal as long as it's a continued use. I can't say why the new guy bought the place. He already has (or had) a farm outside of town. Whatever - I don't see his motives as an issue. He bought a legal operating farm - to continue to use - legally. Farming is his choice and he proceeded within the law.

We are not in an urban area. This area is near as rural as it gets in New York - not counting the center of the Adirondack Park forest.

As far as I know - the specific legal issues here have nothing to do with farming. I told the story several times already. Yes there are many city-type people moving in that look down on anyone with an old rusty car or truck, or shoddy clothes, etc. Same with noisy slow-moving tractors, cows that cross the road and leave a trail, manure spreaders, etc. Too bad. It's legal and this isn't head-quarters for LL Bean.

I'll say it one more time. The issue as far as I know - was an environmental officer sneaking on to the farm without asking permission first. When the farmer got ticked off and threw him off - seems a feud began. Later the same officer arrested him for a gun-use violation - not farming. That involved the farmer shooting a rabid raccoon with a 22 rifle in his barn which is less then 500 feet from the road. No farm needed to commit that act.
 
They have, blue,I think they are signs in schoharie co that say right to farm law in effect! I'm sure u may have seen them.
 
The problem with fighting local officials is - you pay for your own time and also pay for them to fight you - via taxes. It gets tiringd and expensive after awhile.

10-15 years ago, there was a feud between two neighbors within village limits. One neighbor's kid had chickens. So the other got two pigs and left them outside staked on the propertly line. Finally town officials got involved and decided to enforce the "no farming" law. But - the town attorney said they could not just target these two people or the town might get sued. So - they tried to enforce "no farming" all through town. Since pet cats and dogs and fish are licensed under NY agriculture law - pet cats and dogs were also found to be "illegal." At that time - I asked what the legal difference is between mowing a lawn, and cutting hay (illegal). Well - the town gave up and it all got dropped. No farming law IS still on the books though.
 
We have "Right to Farm" laws here in Otsego County also.

LOCAL LAW NO. 2 OF 1991
COUNTY OF OTSEGO, NEW YORK
A LOCAL LAW ENTITLED THE OTSEGO COUNTY RIGHT TO FARM LAW

SECTION 1. Title.
This Local Law shall be known as the Otsego County Right to Farm Law.
SECTION 2. Legislative Intent and Purpose.
It is the general purpose and intent of this Local Law to maintain and preserve the rural tradition and character of the County of Otsego in recognition of the fact that farming makes a substantial economic contribution to the County. It is our intent to permit the continuation of the practice of farming within the County, to protect the existence and operation of established farms, and to encourage the initiation and expansion of farming practices. In recognition of the fact that there are many practices and activities which are inherent to and necessary for the practice of farming, it is the specific purpose and intent of this Local Law to attain the aforementioned goals and objectives by providing that such practices and activities may proceed and be undertaken free of unreasonable and unwarranted interference of restrictions. It is also recognized that it is desirable for farmers to be good neighbors.

SECTION 9. Enforcement.
The provisions of this Local Law may be enforced upon the complaint of any peace officer or other law enforcement agency, as those terms are defined in
the Criminal Procedure Law of the State of New York, including the Office of the Sheriff of the County of Otsego; enforcement being available in any court of authorized jurisdiction within the County of Otsego. Enforcement proceedings shall also include the right of any complaining party to proceed by injunction or other appropriate proceeding in civil court
 
Maybe that will make it easier for people to understand. How hard is it to understand farms were there first! I can't believe some of the posts below,??? I think the flood evacuation route signs are blue, not the right to farm ones! Lol
 
LJD, you are entirely correct. Thanks for taking the time to inform people. I applaud the farmers signs. We are on the road to what I call "creeping totalitarianism", meaning the government is slowly but surely enacting laws that take away our hard fought rights. People don't protest and hold the government accountable. Anyone who doubts this should investigate the recently passed NDAA, short for National Defense Authorization Act, which effectively permits the military to arrest and hold any US citizen indefinitely, without trial or access to legal representation.
 
As far as I'm concerned, anyone putting signs up with foul language like that on it is at least half the problem. He looks like his own worst enemy to me.
 
After look'n at the pics again this poor guy's grass is a little thin. He needs to have about 4 tons of broiler litter to the acre spread,,,,, about the middle of August.

Dave
 
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