idiot service

Last week talking to Dad he tells me the water pump in our Massey 165 (continental gas) is out. He called the dealer and the parts guy (not the normal one we deal with who's been there forever) says Yep, we got it. It's not too far out of the way for me so I dropped it off for them to press the pulley off the old one and put it on the new one.

By this time the good parts guy, Mark, is back from lunch and without even looking in the computer says "we ain't got that in stock, we'll have to order it". Alright, I'll call Dad and let him know, get a replacement on stock order, and call us when it's ready.

They got it in on Tuesday, and one of their hacks that works on older stuff pressed the pulley on the new pump, but never measured where it was on the old one. I had some time today so I started putting it on for Dad so he can do some other chores, and thankfully I put the belt on before getting too far into it. Dumass didn't press it on far enough, so the pulley is a good 1/4" off. Dad ran it back (now taking time away from what he was doing) and the gasket tore when they took it back apart to press the pulley on farther (RTV squished out the side AND a gasket) so now we've gotta wait another week for a new gasket to come in.

Meanwhile the manure pile is getting higher and he doesn't have the 165 to move it. He's using my brother's Oliver 550 to scoop feed from the bag, but it's so light in the rear it can't back up with a bucket full. No way it can move manure and besides, my brother wouldn't like his tractor getting covered in manure.

All cause a dumass can't use a simple ruler.... The service just isn't as good as it used to be. Parts is still ok most of the time as we don't expect them to have stuff for our older equipment, and we just have them put it on the stock order and pick it up when it's in.

Thankfully the old Oliver dealer we use is now a Massey dealer, and they still have a very good service department. Only trouble is they're much farther away so it's not nearly as quick to go to them.

Donovan from Wisconsin

Don, need to up those meds a little.

Makes you want to cry, don't it?

When you have to pay the shop rates these guys want these days, and with what they give a 'mechanic', it has gotten to a point I'll ask for them to expedite the repair parts overnite, and let them fix the problem at their expense. About a year ago my 6400 went down with a transmission problem. It's my loader tractor, so it works every day. The bill was $4400. It took less than a week to crap out again, on the newly rebuilt transmission, but a different problem. They had it for another week, and provided a loaner tractor, and I told them up front it was on their nickel. I'm guessing the mechanic is now pretty good at fixing the system- he had some practice on mine. It's just a shame that we have gotten to a point we can't fix it right the first time, but have enough time to fix it again.

Put in their 40 hrs, get a check on Friday, that's all there is to life, isn't it?

Best part is getting charged top dollar on top of it all. A friend took a pair of JD hydraulic cylinders to a JD dealer to get re-sealed. They could only get one apart. Charged him for one hour on the one they couldn't get apart. He took it across the road to the Gehl dealer. They had it apart in about 6 minutes. JD knocked 30 minutes off of his bill for him. In conclusion he had $90 labor into the one JD repaired and $38 labor into the one Gehl repaired.

Sounds like the same kind of frustrations I face with most of the suppliers. Then someone will get on this site to defend the store, the workers, the school system....ain't no ones fault..never. Yes it is....no discipline... and that is why we are getting our rear kicked in the world economy.

and the dealer is???

Yes, that happens, sorry work cost you money and worse, downtime that hurts.

I hate to add worry to your disgust, but make sure it is allowed to reuse that fan hub. Many co's do not allow that, as that old hub being pressed on / off 3 times may be too loose to stay on the shaft when the fan pulls hard at 2000 rpm.

I have seen JD pump rebuilds where that hub was reused and the old hub pulled off the new pump shaft which destroyed fan and radiator. The Mechanic needs a good experienced feel for how hard that hub pushes on shaft, and by the mistake your mechanic made, sounds like he might not have much experience at that feel.

About 1980 heard a ticking noise from the water pump on my IH 3600 backhoe so had water pump removed and rebuilt. Had to re-use old hub on a new shaft. Went a 1/2 mile when the fan went thru the radiator! Old mechanic on monday (repairs made on sat. by a younger mechanic) said when using used hub on new shaft ALWAYS spot weld hub to shaft! Check that out Don. Good luck. Armand

I won't defend shoddy work or parts but I will say this, America is not getting our rear kicked in the world economy, we are still the worlds manufacturing leader and # 1 economy. Secondly, laziness and stupidity is a worldwide problem and always has been, only now we don't let them starve to death as nature intended.

It was said:
"gasket tore when they took it back apart to press the pulley on farther (RTV squished out the side AND a gasket) so now we've gotta wait another week for a new gasket to come in.

WHAT! they can't make a gasket?

What I am finding more and more these days is the lack of service availability here where I live. There are just too many jobs that nobody will do anymore. Everyone is afraid to do anything anymore in my opinion because they are [u:2c6154e93b]not good enough[/u:2c6154e93b] at doing it I guess?

I understand the frustration but have to ask...and that the dealership should be responsible for the cost of the new gasket since it was their screwup.....but....If the tractor is needed so badly, why wait all that time for a new gasket when one can be made in just a few minutes with a piece of gasket paper from the local parts house? I was in my local O'Reillies this afternoon and they had several varieties of gasket paper in stock from the plain old vegitable fiber to a rubberized paper, which would be great for a water pump. All you've got to do is ask, and regardless of the name any good parts house should have some in stock.

All you need to do is put the sheet of material over the piece where the gasket goes, and using a small ball-pein hammer, tap out a bolt hole with the ball end. Insert a bolt in that hole, and then tap out another. Insert a bolt in that hole and between the two of them the material should be located and stay where you put it. Then you can start to gently tap around the edges of the part, again with the ball end of the hammer, to make the gasket. Dependent upon how thick the material is it should either cut through just by the tapping, or worst case leave enough of an impression that you can follow it and cut the gasket out with scissors, a razor knife, etc.

Like I said, I can understand the problem your having but if the tractor is so badly needed, there is an alternative to all of the waiting for a factory gasket...

I use to make gaskets at work from vellumoid gasket material. Used a small ball peen hammer.
I've even made them here at home as most auto supply stores has gasket material. Hal

I had a water pump on a Perkins that started to leak at the seal. Took it off an put in a new water pump seal out of a Gould pump. That's why I have a complete shop to do all my own work. I saved $200 and the time to run all over trying to get the parts. About three hours and back in business.

I have been making my own gaskets for 40 some odd years out of old cereal boxes and such. never had one fail. Also Daddy taught me to put axle grease on them and they won't leak and are easier to remove. Rick

My dad discovered years ago that he needed to be his own mechanic and partsman to keep his blood pressure down in situations like that. For over 30 years now he has insisted on keeping parts books for most of the machines we own even though they were not cheap back in the day. The tools we do not have books for are because the manufacturer did not offer them although with the advent of the internet that is not an issue with the exception of one implement. Power equipment here has a service book should we need to reference something. We only involve dealer mechanics if we lack tools or suspect our experience is lacking for a job.
It does no good to get riled up at the dealership personnel in most instances. Most of these guys (and gals) are hired off the street for minimum wage. Some places might be good at training these people but a lot (and I suspect your dealer does this, too) expect the employee to figure it out for themselves. It most likely will not get any better as the future goes along so it does no good to wind up banned at every dealer within 150 miles. My father felt the same as you at first that "it's not my job to do their job" but that usually leaves the machine down longer yet getting in a pi**ing match. By the way I think hiring experienced help is down in part because you are always going to hire the farmboy that one or two customers are not going to like because they don't like the family (because they are competition for ground) so again I see the problem getting worse.

Well said.

A freind had a Stiger tractor that the pivot pin and bushings were getting loose on. He stoped at CaseIH to order the parts and the service manager convinced him to let them do it. Thing is he never got a quote on the cost and was a bit upset at the bill. He could have done it himself. Same dealer a year later, he calls to price a set of batteries. Then he calls a different CaseIH dealer who was 20 bucks a battery cheaper for the same battery. Couple of weeks later he's at the 1st dealer and the parts guys says, hey we got your batteries waiting for you, we already charged em to your account. Now here is the funny part, both places are owned by the same large dealer network, just has different in store managment.

Rick

The dealership is Vanderloop Implement, their Brillion location. The mechanic has been there for probably over 20 years but the last 10 I'd have to say anytime he's touched our tractor we've had issues. I fix anything I'm capable of and inspect what I can of his work when it comes out of the shop. I don't know if the other guy that worked on this stuff is now retired, or if he just does on site service calls.

Their service manager is now a guy who was a year ahead of me in high school and is one of the owners sons. Doesn't know his arse from his elbow and has taken a good chewing from my dad. Next time Dad went down he was treated with a little more respect.

Like I said, I'm glad the old Oliver dealer is now Massey because next time we've gotta send the tractors out, it's going there no matter what.

Donovan from Wisconsin

People like me are getting hard to find. When I do my work I make sure the parts will fit before I install them. Take my time and do it right. I have had many fights over the service I got out of shops.
I had one starter shop rebuild a starter for me. They had it done so fast that I knew it couldn't be correct. Told the manager. That if I drive out to the site 150 miles away and it fails. You will be paying for the trip.

So he took it and me back into the shop and I watched the oldest man they had rebuild it. He found a bad starter drive. Went out installed it and it was still working the last time I talked to the customer.

I am sure some of you know guys that take pride in their work.But they are getting hard to find.

I'll vote for you, get on the ballet first. Then you will tell us how you're going to fix the problem

Should have seen the look on the parts gals face at the old Oliver dealer where I go. I needed something,don't remember what it was,but the water pump was out on the 1600 at the same time. The other Agco dealer farther over beyond them that used to be an AC dealer had what I needed,so I asked Shawn if they could press that cast hub off that 1600 water pump and rebuild it while I went on over and got that other part. Told her I'd do it myself at home,but I was afraid I'd break that hub. She said sure,no problem.
I got back there about an hour later,walked in and she had a sheepish look on her face. I said "they broke it didn't they?". She just said yup. They're not very far from Worthington,so she called them to see if they had one,they didn't. Luckily,it just broke one side off and wasn't near the shaft. I took it home,ground it in,clamped it and welded it. Been quite a few years ago and it's still holding.

It's the same everywhere you go. People that are smart and good at their jobs don't stay at those jobs for very long usually. They move on to bigger and better.

Been making my own gaskets for years (often out of cereal box, if its not where it will get wet), but thanks for the tip about doing the bolt holes first, and securing it. I've always done the holes last, and yes, have had trouble getting it to stay put while I'm doing it.

Funny how something can be so obvious when someone tells you about it, but you can't see it yourself.

Most of them today don't know how to make a gasket. If it doesn't come with the part they are lost.

Its funny everyone on here crying and saying how mechanics are not what they use to be. If tractors only had three wires in a harness,and a transmission with 5 gear anyone could do it like back in the day.A guy back than did not even have to know how to read to work on that simple junk.I was a john deere mechanic for 17 years and loved working on equipment,had customer that requested me and me only.But got so tired of them crying about the bills or for a small mistake that was made on a piece that has a thousand moving parts i quit.Its not the mechanics that has changed its the farmers whos dad did all the repairs and the son that was not smart enough help that has changed.For the people on here that think they have all the answers and think they can do these jobs better.I would like to see you try because there would be a post on here about you and how you could not do the job any better.