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Office pay vs shop pay?

S

Sunny 5 acres

Member
Why does the office which is salary get much better and retirement benefits than the shop which is wage? I understand that it takes a college degree to work in a lot of office positions. But guys like me are in the shop sweating are a$$ off and risking injury on very dangerous equipment and breathing non removed asbestous! WHy are us shop guys that work in a dangerous enviroment not close to what salary makes in company compenstion when they just push a pencil?
 
company i worked for started comittes to air grievences i asked that same question. never got invited to sit in on any more comittes that was a few years before i retired
 
I'm retired now, but spent 40+ years working for same firm. (Construction) First 25 years spent in the field. Last 15 in office. #1, it's not all "pencil pushing". You have to know where to push that pencil. While the office part LOOKS easier, it absolutely WASN'T. Office is more mental than physical, but it did require harder, longer hours, not to mention the political aspects of the job. My income doubled, but the work load tripled.

Been on both sides of that fence and see both perspectives. There's a litany of reasons why being tied to a desk pays more.
 
Appearances can be deceiving.
I have a small shop office. I am also running a Bridgeport milling machine 50% of the time, and in the office ordering material and finished machined details from other shops.
Every week I have to write my boss an itemized status report for each job that goes through the machine shop, get multiple quotes for each detail that is being quoted, keep an Excel spreadsheeet log for each job. BTW: each job is a machine with a fixture, hardware, machine guarding, tooling, etc.
I have 3 machinists that get orders from me. All they have to do is run their milling machine or Lathe and do the work and follow the print, I have to run a mill also and do all the other work. As the saying goes, the more you can do the more responsibility you will receive.
Working in the front office is sometimes much more stressful because the owner is 30 feet from you. I am 200 feet from the owner and separated by cinder block walls, not cubical walls.
 
Supply and demand?

In unionized companies, salaried benefits are nearly identical to hourly. The union negotiates the benefits, which the company extends to salaried employees. In non-unionized companies, wages and benefits are whatever the company has to offer to get qualified people. If the guys up front are paid more, it's because they couldn't find anyone to work for less.

FWIW, salaried employees typically don't get paid overtime, no matter how many hours they put in. How much of your pay is overtime?
 
When those types questions start to weigh you down it is time to start your own shop and hire people to work in your shop.

That will not only answer your questions but give you an education you had no idea you would ever get and could never get in a collage.

I have had my own plastic factory and tool making shop since 1959. Designing parts, molds to make the parts, making the parts and shipping them along with sales.

Never had one of my paid employees sell one job, design one part or Desi one mold.
I did hear of how I cheated my employees because I worked them for eight hours a day and their paychecks only were for the hours on their time clock. However I never docked them for the time they were on the phone with friends, the half hour they took for a 15 minute break, walking away from the work station to visit or the time standing in front of the time clock waiting for it to get to the time they would not get docked.

As the owner, when a customer called and wanted a quote or a drawing quicker that was originally agreed to, I didn't have the option of saying it is quitting time I will get right at it in the morning. If you want the customer? Ya just :)^D ( Get-R-Done )
 
"How much of your pay is overtime?"

None.
I work over 40 hrs every week and get paid by the hour yet get no extra pay for this.
And yes it is perfectly legal. Has been challanged in court by guys working for other simular companies several times.

Like you said it is all about supply and demand. As long as I am willing to work under the rules we have nothing will change. If the company could find good help to work for less than I do I would be out of a job.

We work in a non union shop but anyone that thinks or pay is not driven by union shops from simular companies is crazy. The trouble is the union guys have been taking cuts the past few years. Kind of hard for us to get a raise when they are taking cuts.
 
I've worn both shoes. As a factory worker life was simple. I just put in my 8 hours, did as good a job as I could and at the end of the day it was purged from my mind. Then when I was promoted to a management position with a salary it was like I was part owner of the business. Any problem the business had was mine too. I had to deal with it twenty-four seven. I spent long hours at night at home dealing with one problem or another and I'm sure the other factory workers just thought I was still only putting in 8 hours. The work load I was carrying in the management position was more than double what I had in the shop but the salary was only about a third more. Really the business had a better value paying me a salary.
 
As they say. JOIN THE CLUB. Been working fab. shop for 7 years now never have and never will make same as fellow worker who does 4 hours work in 8 and complains about the lousy wages.
But I get paid what I agreed to plus a couple small increases over the years. Besides Im not related to the owner. If you dont like the wage ask for more or leave. Your option.
 
That pencil pusher won't get OT pay when traveling for the company. I get double-time on Sundays, time-and-a-half after 40 hours and triple on holidays. I work on Saturday, it's all OT, when they show up on a weekend, its no extra time; no different if I stay late.

The managers all have Blackberries and are within reach 24x7. When I walk out the door to go home, try calling me, I might answer; whereas the manager has to answer.

You don't like the pay or the working conditions or don't like sweating for what you make, go back to school and earn a degree. I did that after 7 years of 3rd shift. I just got tired of getting up at 11 each night to go to work. I now work in R&D as a technician working on new applications and experimental injection pumps. I haven't looked back ever since.



bob
 
I'll say the office guys are always on now, we can't escape our job. Work comes home with us if we like it or not. Also, I'm not sure about where you are but I'm an engineer and I could make better money in almost any trade around us. I hired a carpenter the other day, 32$/hr while most are 40$/hr. Electrician is 40 for apprentice who can't pick his nose up to 60+ for ticketed guy.
 
As that old saying so accurately says: "If you ain"t the lead dog on the sleigh team, the view is all the same".

I have done both sides. Each one has it"s advantages and disadvantages. If you feel that one is better than the other, get yourself retrained for the one you won"t. If you can"t or won"t retrain, then it"s best to just go with what you got!
 
You need to be in business for yorself for a while. I have been for 35 years. I order the parts, I install them myself. I order the steel,I do the fabrication and the welding, and I paint it before it"s shipped. I answer the phone and I sweep the floors and I clean the toilet. I listen to the compliments and the complaints and I deal with the cry babies about the bill being too high. Some days I make a hundred bucks an hour and some days I don"t make a dime. I don"t have paid medical insurance, sick pay ,workmans comp.,paid holidays,or paid vacations but I am the Boss.
 
John, you are correct. My wife works for Volvo Trucks NA. She was laid off for three years . She got called back 6 months ago. Almost 7 bucks an hour less than what she was making 3 years ago. Plus a cut in benefits. This is a UAW plant.
 
Wish I could become the (BOSS) Seems my customers take that job. :)^D

Also:

Watch the man who says he is (BOSS) at home because he will fib to you about other things also.
 
Jealousy will get you no where! If they really have that sweet of a deal maybe its time for a change. I do know that companies dont give $ away, if the office staff make more im sure there is a reason.
 
I have been in plant management for 28 years as of next month, it's funny how easy people perceive the job to be. It can be physically and mentally hard at the same time and you're day ends when the job is done or at least running smooth. Did I mention that the people aspects of the job are often the toughest? It's usually the people who absolutly refuse to work a minute of overtime, whine and cry if we end up in a mandatory workday on Saturday or Sunday (all time and a half or doubletime pay) and won't do anything outside their exact job description. These are the same people who are in dire straights on their work attendance, job performance etc. And they think I make the "big money". I am fairly compensated for what I do and that's because I do what I do to the best of my ability and try to be fair to the employee and to the company. I am the keeper of a well defined and well communicated set of standard operating procedures and rules of conduct, they are not difficult to understand or follow, as long as you can do this we are doing good. If not well we are going to discuss it. Management is not easy and it can be as mentally crushing as it can be rewarding. Chances are somewhere in your career there has been someone in management that has put their butt on the line to save your's. If everyone is doing their job it's very likely to happen, and we move forward from there.
In these economic times very few people are in a job that their time and talents are not needed in. My boss pays me to put the right people in the right places just as his boss pays him to do the same. So the next time you see me sitting at my desk tapping a pen on papers in a file, I'm likely planning the production schedule ahead but then again I may also be trying to figure out the best plan of action to deal with a thousand containers of product that were packed in the wrong container because somebody did not follow procedure
 
Been on both sides. Worked as welder/machinist in a large shop repairing off road and heavy highway construction equipment for 10 years,clock and out, OT after 40hours,etc, liked the work and people, but had an ankle crushed from drop from overhead crane and with pins and screws realized I could do that standing on concrete for ever (was 20 years old at injury). Continued working there during day, college classes at night. Got business degree and was hired as and insurance adjuster, salary job. My check states pay is based on 80 hours every 2 weeks...but I never work less than 50-55 week, sometimes more. Carry a cellphone, all customers have the number, if on vacation they call me,if sick, they call. Got a laptop to take home at end of day to work on more... Am responsible for entire office and have had 2 small raises in past 5 years (working this job past 26 years). That pencil sure gets heavy some days :)
 
I worked about 12 years in the shop at a farm equipment dealership. I did everything from set-up and delivery, to lawn and garden, chainsaws, on up through combines. I even helped with parts inventory once. I enjoyed the variety. We did so much business in the end of the county where I live, that I was basically "on-call". I was the only one there other than the owner with a company vehicle. I was offered the "position" of shop foreman before I was 30. I had excellent relationships with the older guys in the shop. I eventually developed the opinion that I hadn't seen anyone who got dirty, working for someone else, end up with much more than a steady job and a home. That may be enough for some.
I started farming in the mid 80's. We faced imminent failure, and lived VERY frugally for a long time. We have accumulated some wealth. But I decided early on that I would rather work 12 hours a day for myself than 8 hours for someone else.
 
I'm also retired now. Spent the first third of my career in the field and the last 2/3 in the office. After 2 years in the office, I would have gone back to the field if the opportunity had presented itself. The money was nice, but the 24/7/365 really got to you. Ended up with high blood pressure and migraines (and not because I was overweight and drinking). After 2 months of retirement, the migraines are gone and the blood pressure is coming down. Like others have said, if you think it's so great, do it yourself.
 
The way I see it is, if you make the big money you are going to earn it one way or another. Either putting in the hours or putting out the muscle whether you are management or not.
 
As others have said when you leave for the day or weekend your job is behind you.
This morning I arrived at a customer I've done a lot of work for in the past at 9 AM to cut the legs 6" shorter on her sons' bunk bed.
Little freebie - only took 20 minutes or so but I still had to show.
This afternoon at 4 I will drive 25 miles one way to look at a job. Then I'll spend a couple of hours checking prices of materials and estimating the time to do it and email them a bid by morning.
Maybe I'll get the job, maybe not.
Then there's the hours of tax stuff I have to start getting ready this time of year so I can get my taxes done at the CPA.
One of my favorite quotes is:
"The quality of life is not defined soley in economic terms".
Consider that your free time is your own. That is worth a lot.
 
s.crum can completely agree that dealing with employees is more stressful than all the paperwork combined. Hourly guys punch out and that.s that who still has production reports and who knows what else to get in before the day is done, Overtime -cry if there isn;t any -cry if we work over 2 / 3 days in a row. God forgive if something has to be done late on a friday. their hours 7;30 -4;00- my day runs about 7- 5;530
 
You got some very good advice here. It depends a lot on your temperment. If you don't mind stress, are willing to think ahead, worry, and plan....try the office.

If you want to do one thing at a time, do more manual things, and be able to leave your work back at the shop after 4PM. Then stay in the shop.

Someone said it best, 90% of the stress in an office job is dealing with people, customers, employees, suppliers, many not happy and expecting you to be responsible and fix it.
If that is not your cup of tea...stay in the shop. You may find the office skills that you don't much appreciate are a lot more difficult to develop than it looks like from the workshop.

Finally, don't spend your life stewing about it, you alone are not going to change it. If you want the pay...go into the office..it my suit you fine...or you could be a major failure..it is up to you.
 
I work a non union job and our wages and benefits are not driven by union wages, in fact, the opposite is true.
 
One of my sons and a SIL are salaried employees, the son in IT and SIL electrical engineer. My son works the average of 60 hours a week and one week out of three is on call and has to go back in when called. The SIL was here last year for vacation. He and I went fishing and he was taking work related calls on the lake while on vacation.

Rick
 
Have you tried working your way up? Son in law started out as a press maintenance man,has worked his way up to plant manager with a company car and a secretary. Has no college education. Some places Do promote from within.
 
One more thought, something that too few people really understand. Your work attitude and your skills and abilities are what your employer is buying. It is all you have to sell.

If you have no skills and the boss can hire 10 people this morning and have them trained to do your job as well as you can by mid-afternoon...you don't have much to sell. That guy needs to be sure he is prompt, follows direction and shows up for work everyday which adds value to him as an unskilled employee.

The more skills and knowledge you bring to the job, especially skills and knowledge that can not be easily duplicated with a new or different employee, adds more value...and higher pay.

If for example you really know transmissions and can fix any condition, you have a leg up on getting a skilled job. Unfortuantely a lot of our unemployed workers really have no skills that are saleable right now.
 
I always wanted to work the shop because I enjoy hands-on work but the real draw was overtime. Most places I worked you could nearly double your yearly income with o/t.

Also get night differential and hazardous duty pay.

Brad
 
Guess I sure did and still do it wrong all my life. I worked in the shop and always took my work home . Reading the books at night, figuring out how everything works. You can't repair something if you don't know how it works. Then worrying about if it was done properly and will stand the test of time. High blood pressure, anxiety, still have it doing part time on my own now to make ends come closer to meeting. I did work office for a while, never took that home, but didn't like it either.
 
(quoted from post at 12:52:31 01/08/12) Guess I sure did and still do it wrong all my life. I worked in the shop and always took my work home . Reading the books at night, figuring out how everything works. You can't repair something if you don't know how it works. Then worrying about if it was done properly and will stand the test of time. High blood pressure, anxiety, still have it doing part time on my own now to make ends come closer to meeting. I did work office for a while, never took that home, but didn't like it either.
Click to expand...

LOL Pete, my oldest daughter is married to a mechanic who works at a GM dealership. He's in his early 30's and has already been told that when the service manager retires in a few the job is his if he wants it. He is thier only mechanic who gets certified by GM every time something new comes up. He will take the material home to study. But his fellow mechanics don't, come quitting time they are heading home without a care in the world.

Rick
 
Always go for the PENSION. I did and retired at 55, while I was still in good health.
George
 
I am retired now, but I have been on both sides. I worked in a better enviornment when I was on salary, but I was stressed out all the time. I went back to hourly, less stress, more money, since I got paid ot. Now the shops are going backwards on pay, but so is the office guys. Pensions are pretty much gone, for eveybody.
 
After reading the majority of the other posts I have to say I think that most just don't get what your asking. That said, in my opinion, the reason behind what your asking is this. Over the years the people in the front office have, for the most part, gone from people that have years of experience with the company and worked their way "up" to the office to people that have come straight out of college with a degree and that's it. In other words in the past the people in the office usually had the expernience and time with the company to both earn, and thereby justify, the additional perks, but 90 percent of those in the office nowdays probably don't. Thing is it's the ones "in the office" that are still making the policies as to who gets what.......and who is going to cut their own throat when it comes to giving perks to theirself????
 
Our company has more managers than workers. Getting work approved is well nigh impossible as everybody has to have input to prove the necessity of their jobs.
It would be possible for the workers to make the place operate. However management who have little to no idea of how things work in the field, they dither.
Our manager in charge of technical mechanical, structural and electrical decisions.He's qualified to inspect ergonomics of chairs, desks, keyboards and computer monitors. He worked as a school teacher for a while then hired as a manager.
He may well be qualified in his field. However he doesn't know the difference between a relief valve and a flow control valve. In all honesty he could not change a tire on a vehicle.
 
Same reason our Govt gets away with the same thing. Weak , spineless , intimidated , beaten down , desperate , insecure , lazy employees / citizens let them get away with it , plain and simple. They have thrown the "bluff" and no one has the nards to call them out on it! They know human nature and know how to use it to their bennefit. Nazi Germany was a prime example of this.
 
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