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pat sublett

Well-known Member
My oldest grand-son just finished his first semester at Tarelton University. He was exempt from Freshmen and solphomore math because of test scores. He got his grades today, all A's along with a notice that he had been awarded a full scholarship as long as he maintained a 3.5 average. He and his 5 siblings have never been in a public school before. Sorry, I just had to tell someone.
 
Congrats on his grades but it is not fair to the student to keep him from all of the things that a public education brings. What makes a parent skilled in teaching? I sure would hope that my doctor was not home schooled but rather schooled by a person that is trained to do such. A degree doesn't make one automatically better but it sure helps. I wouldn't have ever considered letting my 3 be home schooled. It is better than no education but not much.
 
My son-in-law was home schooled and apparently his parents did a very good job. My wife used to teach children's Sunday school classes and said the home schooled were at the top or bottom. Never between.
 
"Congrats on his grades but it is not fair to the student to keep him from all of the things that a public education brings."

Specifically, would that be the drugs or the shootings? What makes parents good at teaching their kids is called a "Vested Interest". Seriously, there are plenty of homeschooled students going on to do very well in college and life. Even in the field of medicine, there are those who were homeschooled, and do very well. You can relax. Most of us who homeschool our children, use either a packaged course, or some type of mail order/online course. Ironically, when we began homeschooling our kids, the local principle shared how his sister did the same thing for the same reason. Her husband was in the service and as they transfered, the kis kept suffering from differing levels of studies.
 
congrats to all, my were / are in public school, probably better if they could have been home schooled, half the year is geared to teaching the WestTest so all will score well, the other half is spent teaching to the weakest students level and generally they are weak because they want to be.
 
Pat,
Congrats and way to go!
We home schooled our son with Aspergers because school made him nuts. Let him go back to public school for a few years, 7,8,9 grade and it drove him insane again.
The naive and ignorant comments about home schooling are amusing. So many of today's public schools SUCK! For so many different reasons.
Drugs, violence, students have more rights to behave poorly then staff has to discipline them. Tenured, burnt out teachers with no consequences for poor performance. Teaching "for" standardized tests. "New" math, over abundant curriculum's.

I applaud you and your son's success. You especially for having the foresight and courage to go against the norm and do what was best for your kid.

Pete
 
Well said Bob. I can only assume John Pop hasn't kept up with what all happens in most public schools these days. The poor teachers don't even have time to teach anymore with all the rules and regulations. Seems like the kids run the schools now days, and the authorities just try their best to stay out of the way until the bell rings!
 
Without addressing the religious aspects, or whatever "abundant Agenda" or anything that critics claim is the motivating factor for homeschooling. Have you ever noticed that the lion share of actual core material is only done as homework, anyway. The actual school day is spent in the extras of school, including but not limited to announcements, assembly, social programs and address etc. A school day may have a 30-45 minute math class with 1-2 hours of homework. I'm not against homework, though again it falls back to the parents vested interest to teach the subject. We do need to look at why so many public school grads are scoring so much lower than homeschoolers. If we look at nothing but the academics, we have enough to conclude that something has gone wrong with the public school system, and it would do the Department of Education a world of good to call a bunch of homeschool moms and ask what the state could do to get the results that the mommys do. All the other issues(political, religious etc.) aside, if the school can't teach the cores of education, reading, writing, math and science, they are failing to do their job, and no longer serve a purpose. With few exceptions, public schools are failing to do their most basic job!
 
I have friend that told me how much my grand children were missing. He has a grand-son the same age that was in public scool. He wasn't able to get into the same scool because of grades. he went to a Junior college and already dropped out. I have another set of grandchildren 4 in that bunch they go to a private school which is better than public. There is no comparison between the maturity, respect and affection that the 5 home-scoolers have over the others. Both of their mothers are my daughters. I am glad some people are happy with public schools, gives my children a big advantage.
 
This not meant to be the "final word" on educational systems, it's just one man's observations.

My wife is a retired high school and college English teacher. Her high school experience was almost entirely in private Christian schools and her college teaching was in a public college that is part of the Georgia University system.

We have eight grandchildren who have been or are being home schooled. My wife's observation is that there are successful home schools, successful private schools, and successful public schools. Conversely, there are failing home schools, failing private schools, and failing public schools.

There are children who thrive in one system and fail in another. She would say that parents need to make the decision. Whatever system is best for the parents' children is the one that is best, regardless of which one is chosen.

Congratulations to you successful parents who have made wise decisions about what is best for your children.

At least, that's one old man's opinion.

Tom in TN (Educated through a master's degree in public schools)
 
Congratulations! Sounds like your grandson has his head screwed on straight. As far as home schooled being better than public schools, that seems like comparing apples to oranges. Both have benefits and drawbacks, but the biggest factor is the kid. That's right, the kid who excells in a public/social environment may fail in a home school environment and vice versa. I think the smaller classroom is more conductive to learning, but the larger social atmosphere may be more helpful later in life. Once again it depends on the child, and I have been around both kinds all my life.
My oldest boy has autism. We send him to a public school that I went to but is rapidly losing students since the rural population is still in a decline around here. He is in a class with 6 girls and no boys. The other children do a wonderful job of looking out for him and helping him. The issue in a larger school would probably be that lack of companionship and him getting teased a lot more(it pains me, but I expect him to get some teasing since kids can be that way, I just don't have to like it)
Mom taught in this same school for over 20 years and the main change she hated was the No Child Left Behind Act. Her observation was that now the kids were taught to the test, not the general knowledge that they used to get. On the flip side Grandpa who taught school in a 1 room schoolhouse 80 years ago thought that was a better system than the one we have now.
 
I'm glad that worked for you. My sister homeschool(ed) hers. The oldest okay but as life gets busier, teaching takes a back seat to errands, etc. So, I see the younger ones goofing off more. My partener at work's sister home schooled as soon as her oldest was old enough to baby sit. That way the daughter could stay home and the mom could keep popping out illegitimates and have a built in babysitter. They're all nearly functionally illiterate. I see no way for anyone to regulate who is learning and who is basically playing hooky. I agree a lot of public schools suck. My kids go to Parochial school. And seeing what my JHS and HS kids do for homework the is NO way this C average(HS)- 4yr degree dummie could teach it!
 
Home schooling, public schooling or private schooling. They all have their place.

The biggest factor in successful schooling is the teamwork and cooperation given between the parents and the educator. If the parents don't follow the successes and failures of the student, they will follow the path the student chooses. And what, middle school student, grade school student or even high school student is going to make correct choices all the time.

As a taxpayer, I love the private schools and home schooling. It takes quite a bit of burden off the school budget. But generally, it is only the better students that are home schooled. What parent wants a problem student with them 24 hours each day. The often dump those students on the educational system.

Rather than teach students toward a specific test, maybe we should expect all students to be able to read and write and be able to do simple math by the time they enter first grade. If they can't, maybe we should penalize the parents.

How can you expect the schools to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear? A student that enters school without skills might need to be considered an abused child.
 
CONGRATULATIONS to the student and his parents. But really, it comes as NO surprise to me that the private sector can operate better and more efficient then when big government, bureaucrats, overregulation, and red tape and waste gets involved WELL DUH. I"m NOT blaming the teachers, most are hard workers many underpaid, its the system and government and all the do gooders (with an agenda) and progressives that stifle education. From what Ive seen on the news and and read (but I realize that may or may be correct) its not uncommon for home schoolers to blow the doors off public educated students. The abundant progressives are always preaching for and praising CHOICE and its a womans choice etc etc, so I guess they would be for allowing women the right to choose to send their kids to charter schools right?? (ya might wanna check the teachers union stance on that one, not sure if they agree or not???) Reports I"ve seen (again news, no warranty) show charter schools are providing a superior education AT A LOWER COST per student HMMMMMMMMMMMMM

So God Bless all the hard working teachers out there and that goes for public school teachers and charter school teachers and home school teachers alike, yall have a huge responsibility with often little thanks and rewards.

Merry CHRISTmas

John T
 
Dedicated parents is all it takes. Once in a while, though, they may find one of their youngsters that fit in better in public school. Or maybe they just give up too soon. My wife taught in Christian schools for over 10 years. Dave
 
John;
I'll agree with you on the government interference hurting the public shcool's but the charter school's aren't the answer. Their performance looks good on paper but if you look close it's because the deck is stacked. We have a couple here & they screen every kid before they allow them to enroll. Only the best and brightest have a chance of getting in. Should a child allow their grades to drop at any time while in those schools they are weeded out. That's why they appear to out-perform the public school's so much. Keeping the easy ones and sending those that have special needs to the public schools that get less money because of the charter schools just cheat's most kids. Hope it works better in your area.
 
Charter Schools and Private schools can do a better job than many public schools and even some home school situations. Charter Schools and Private schools can typically refuse to take certain students without due process. How many ADHD students are in a typical charter school or private school. I would bet that locally we are running close over 5%. How many students at Charter Schools and Private schools are truant? How many are Section 8?

How many of the students in the Charter Schools and Private schools are diagnosed with a learning disability?

Many of you here are farmers, if the dealer sends you poor quality seed, even with the best fertilizers, the best land and the best tillage, what can you expect from what you planted?

Why is it that so many of the students from my local high school who take physics, calculus, 4 years of foreign language, play in the highest level bands, play varsity sports, often become doctors, lawyers, agricultural specialists, CPAs, own their own businesses and achieve similar careers? Genetics and nurturing are both important as well as the schools.

Merry Xmas to all.
 
I would guess that the parents are also sharp individvuals or the result would not have been the same. Most of the arguments against home schooling are for more money for school systems while giving the ''majority'' of public school teachers a pass and pleading they are under paid etc. I believe the evidence proves just the opposite, the majority of public school teachers are second raters who would never stand a chance of getting a private sector job with equal pay or benefits to what they enjoy on the public teat.
 
I find the more money for public schools to be ridiculous. No matter how much money you send my way, I am not going to be any closer to a medical degree. Some problems aren't solved by throwing money at them, but if you must throw money at a problem, you could stack a lot of $20 bills in my living room.
 
Several of my relatives are teachers in the public schools. They all say that the more the parents are involved with the students schooling, both at home and at school, the better the student does. I believe from those comments that parental involvement in the childs life makes a big difference. A friend once told me that his dog behaved and minded better than most peoples kids. I told him that is because he spent more time training his dog than most parents spend training their kids
 
Hey, no problem, wouldnt it be a boring world if we all had the same opinions anyway lol. In this area based strictly upon my personal observation (NOT any scientific study) the home, private, charter, and religious schools are out educating the public schools BUT like you say if its ONLY smarter kids that get in (I dont see that as a factor in the religious or home situations) I can see why. Charter is only ONE of the NON GOVERNMENT educators and I still see big government and bureaucracy and agendas and wasteful tax dollar spending as not helping things WHICH I DONT BLAME ON THE STUDENTS OR HARD WORKING TEACHERS

Check out my question for ya over on Mother Deere page

Thanks M Man
Merry CHRISTmas

John T
 
Congratulations.

I'm on board with TomTN's post below. Neither system is the total answer. There are effective and ineffective public schools and effective and ineffective results from home schooling. Making comparisons is a bit tricky. Consider the"old saw" that Japanese students are better achievers compared to American students. What is usually neglected in this comparison is that the Japanese students are "selected and directed" and then compared to all students in New York State, for instance, such comparison including ALL students in the New York City school system. Invalid comparison.

I've been involved in education for over 45 years and still at it: 20 years in high school and 25 years at a community college where I teach mainly Technical Writing and Freshman English courses. I've had some great home-schooled students and and some not so great ones. The biggest downfall I've observed for some home schooled students is what I would call a lack of socialization. Home schooling is in some ways, a protected environment and when some of these kids get to college, they, for whatever reasons, can't handle the freedom and open environment of a college campus. Those that can't usually take the wrong path and the experience is too much for them and they kind of jump the tracks and become like "kids in a candy shop." So, from my years of experience, good home schooling must include good socialization and experiences in the outside world.

As for teachers, there are many dedicated and hard-working teachers. The biggest problem with public education to day is the unions. Back in the 60's, the teachers needed unions. But today, the teachers unions are nothing more than political money raisers for abundant movements.

My $.02.
 
Most of the complaints I hear about home schooling are from people who know nothing about it. That is especially true with other parents who depend on the public school system to be their "free" baby sitter and full-time indoctrination center. It is just as true with the overpaid union members also who are on the school's taxpayer supported "welfare" system. As the quality of teaching and work load goes down, the pay demands keep going up. In my opinion, all teachers "aids" should be fired. School teachers should be required to learn the content of what they teach and NOT just get useless MAs in "how to teach from a text book." That may be a requirement in some states, but it is not in most. 40 years ago it was required in many more then today.

I've got four kids who went through the public school system. Our fifth is home schooled. When we got involved, we joined LEAH and have met many other home schooled kids from all over the country. From my perspective - there's a huge difference in the finished "product."

I particularly hear complaints from home-school phobics about LEAH being a Christian organization. Well yeah - it is. But they don't mandate beating your kid with a bible. They DO stand up for rights of parents though. I suppose there IS something Christian about a parent actually taking part in teaching their child. How dare we !

I find the entire public school system to be scary and wasteful beyond the pale.

It's ironic that my wife and I pay bloated school taxes in five different towns and two states yet are not allowed to vote on any budgets or local elections but one.
 
Some of the sheer ignorant remarks about "socialization", etc that public schools "offer" is ridiculous. Gangs, drugs, disrespect for others and those in authority, politically correct indoctrination, favoritism for jocks and the teachers "squeeze" (yes, it's common)...all this leads me to the conclusion that those berating homeschooling have very little real knowledge of the problems our modern schools produce. My youngest 2 are in 3rd grade. I will not subject then to middle or high school. I saw what happens with my older 2 and my wife, a teacher, agrees.
 
Thanks to public schools..Working parents get
baby sitting at taxpayer expense!
Our School system, in Wisconsin, is now taking,
(babysitting) 4 year olds!
 
My wife and I are on the down side of raising seven kids. We have two left now. None of my kids have ever attended public school. They have either been homeschooled or attended a private school. As far as I am concerned, public school is a wasteland, paid for by excessive taxes. The "socialization" issue is absolutely bogus. My adult children lead productive lives, and didn't miss out on anything.
 
Pat, it is great that your student did not need to take freshman or sophomore math but please tell me how we can expect most home school situations to have someone who can teach both Calculus and Differential Equations. Those are the first two years of math at the university, right?

The only thing I have seen lacking in some home schooling situation is lab facilities. To be considered a valid science course, most NCAA colleges and universities require the pre-college science courses to include a sizable amount of lab activities to include all the aspects of an experiment included the actual procedure.

Without decent microscopes, air tracks, lab burners and similar, lab activities that are appropriate might be difficult to access.

Luckily, in my corner of the world, our high school would lend out equipment to home schooling associations since many of their teachers subbed in the high school on their lighter terms.
 
I have a BS and MA and I was not required to take "differential equations." Just a light duty 101 type intro to calculus. That because it was not my focus of study. That in the US. No foreign language either since I already knew some French (thanks to my parents).

My wife has a BS and MS from Onatario, Canada and also was not required to study differential equations.

Different colleges for different degrees have different entrance requirements. I went late at 50 years old and met many college kids in the 2nd year who were functionally illiterate. They came from public schools. When I was getting my grad degree I met a few working school teachers who were forced to get their grad degrees. They also were near illterate. Very unhappy with being there too even though my tax dollars were paying their tuition. I had to pay my own totally out of pocket.

Parents who homeschool their kids can pool resources and share teaching abilities.

By the way, one of my sons - when he got out of the Navy was hired as a calculus teacher even though he had no college degree at all. He was self-taught but has a mind for such things. Not all of us do.

My brother taught at MIT and was regarded as one of the highest math and calc wizards in the country. Yet he could never pass a drivers test and get a drivers license. Didn't know which end of a hammer to hold either. He was totally clueless as to the real world around him. He was never able to convince me of the importance of algorithms.
 
Please reread the original post, it stated that the student did not need to take either of the first two years of college math. If it were one year, I can understand the 101 but if they are taking two years, then they might be pursuing a math related degree. Did either you or your wife take two years of math or did your degrees require only one year or one course? I am quite surprised that neither needed to take statistics.


As for the BS comment, yes, I do have a BS and two MS degrees, one in Occupational Education(shop) the other in educational leadership. BS in Physics, Math and Education.

You are right about not needing a foreign language in college today. I was in college along time ago and at that time they wanted either 4 years of high school or two of college. Me, I was fortunate enough to go to a school that allowed me to take French, Latin and Polish. That was challenging. I did skip the Classical Greek, it seemed like overkill for high school.

Have you ever looked to see the number of education courses an individual needs to be permitted to teach in college?
 
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