OT Black Powder

Just read this story in the news and was shocked that a muzzel loader had that kind of range. Am I missing something?
FREDERICKSBURG, Ohio — A man cleaning his muzzle-loading rifle shot the gun into the air, accidentally killing a 15-year-old Amish girl driving a horse-drawn buggy more than a mile away, a sheriff said Tuesday.
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The only thing that is the same is that it is still loaded via the muzzle. My Thompson Center Omega with 120 grains of 777 and a 180 grain ballistic tip precision bullet covered in nickel has some range.

As far as this nut job, what the hell was he thinking? Why shoot any rifle in the air?

If you can't cure stupid, lock 'em up!

anymore they are not the muzzle loaders our forefathers used, about the only difference between modern muzzle loaders and modern rifles is how you load them.

I was raised in lower Michigan, we were not allowed to use modern rifles for deer hunting, just shot guns and muzzle loaders. We found out the muzzle loaders had more range and accuracy then a shotgun slug. My dad had a .58 caliber Springfeild stalker, I a .54 caliber Thompson Hawkins, both threw out a pretty heavy chunk of lead. If you shoot in the air the energy on impact is a function of weight of the projectile and the height it obtained. once the bullet meets the apex of it's flight it will accelerate by the constant of gravity- 32 feet per second squared. So big bullet that's been falling for a while = damage on impact.

Reminds me of the blonde who shot a rifle up into the air. Missed.

Well even the common low power 22 if shot at about a 45 degree angle can/will travel well over a mile and they still pretty much hit as hard due to the fact when a bullet is falling it can pick up speed so yep I could see how a muzzle loader could well travel that far and then some. I know my idiot neighbor shot and arrow into my field from well over 500 yards and he got lucky he missed the 5 tractors I had very close to where I found his arrow.

Been to black powder shoots at an 800 yard range. Aimed fire right? target as big as a bathroom... but the bullet got there, still a hit. Twice as far is a mile right? Unaimed, accident, arked up, but the bullet hit a blood vessel...or? Don't matter. 70, 90,100 grains of elephant brand travels as good now as it did then. So who knows what hi tech powders and projectiles could do

In 1776, the rebel troops at Concord had an advantage over the British because they had rifles. The musket was easier to load, inaccurate, and didn't have the range of a good rifle. Even today's black powder rifles, while easier and quicker to load, still haven't changed much in the 200+ they have been around.

There is still no substitute for common sense and safety around any weapon or any piece of machinery. As Pogo used to say,"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Stupid can't be legislated- it's inherited--

I read the story also,what a needless thing to happen. WHY would you unload a ml by shooting it in the air? As far as the distance goes,look at the ballistics on some of the old cannons,2500 yards accuratly was not uncommon. theres not awhole lot of difference between a ml rifle and a modern one shooting the same projectiles.an example would be a 458 mag. it would probably burn about 65-75 grains of smokeless most likely.where a 45 cal ml would be burning 100(or more) grains of black.a simple look at the ballistics shows them to be about equal as far as energy goes.the difference in these rifles is not the distance they will shoot,but the distance that holdover becomes so great its simply unfeasable.a 458 ,one of the most powerful cartridges around has the same problem.its not really considered a long range proposition either.but fired at he proper angle the bullet will carry for who knows how far. heard just last night that a 50 cal browning bullet,would drop something like 20 ft in a mile,but it would actually fly who knows how many miles and still be lethal if it were shot at its optimum trajectory. consider this,a rain drop hits the ground at over 100 miles an hour,,,,and ive heard it said that a marble,dropped off the golden state bridge,would penetrate a boat.Ive seen a 5/16 X 4" bolt go through a metal hard hat dropped from 40 ft.

Real sad the odds of a hitting person and killing them due to a stupid act of discharging a firearm recklessly. I guess the girl was a mile away.

As usual the report leaves out tech details--like size of rifle bore and loads-- that would be nice to know. This time of year means possible muzzle loading deer season many places. .40 caliber minimum in some areas- that is one factor locally. 50 cal with 50 grains FF and round ball about 200 grains fired 45 degree angle can travel a ways- 500 meters aimed danger, 750 travel unaimed. A .54 with 75 grains or Pyrodex and a 400 grain Buffalo bullet would go twice as far. Civil war had .58 Enfield in aimed volley fire at targets 600 to 800 yards and expected hits on horse or cannon crews. Discharge in air is unfortunated alternative to using screw/worm on ramrod to pull bullet before cleaning gun at end of days hunt- Civil war had a couple incidents recorded of that practice resulting in injuries to officers a mile away, other incident that hit other than officers were lumped under general problems and injuries-- but rules were written in manuals regardig cleaning of loaded muskets after extracting with rods after night sentry duty instead of old British army practice of morning salute with flintlocks that might have gotten wet and result in misfire -noted as about 10% normal to 50% rainy night. Some people fire modern arms in air and have injuries- Detroit and LA area after some parties note the ER reports. Milwaukee paper has about one a month of bystander hit by long range pistol fire and the 9mm travels about as fast as the old round balls- has less range than Minie or slug. Sabot loads take a maybe 250 to 300 .44 or .45 or .50 slug and get it going extra couple hundred feet/second at muzzle compare to 550 to 600 grain slug .58- trajectory flattened and smaller bore sabot bullet still has decent cd, danger at long range. There is reason re-enactors end of day discharge is into ground or sandbox instead of air at some events and ranges. RN.

Yes, it's possible to get that distance, if fired at an angle into the air... Probably a saboted projectile of approximately 240 grains, powered by 100 to 150 grains of pyrodex.. a common load for hunting. Could get that kind of trajectory, however, I'd expect bullet was moving pretty slowly, tumbling by that time.

800 yds is less than 1/2 mile.

I'm not too far from there right now. I don't know why they wouldn't shoot into the ground,but then again you got Amish involved !
On the news this morning said they still might charge him with something.

Yesssssss. quite right quite right..... jolly good. Interesting. When my mathamatical equations are off by 10%, there is immediate critisism. There are 2 historic inaccuracies in one sentence on this same thread.... has no one noticed?? Many accountants?... but no 'historians' on tractor talk have yet corrected this?.... interesting... oh by the way, I believe there was a sizable body of water beyond the rifle range, or I'm certain they would have dug the pit 240 feet further away from the firing line... that would have made it exactly one half of one English mile??? Since this was built in the years of hitting an enemy horses' buttocks at... 'volley range' I would think the brigadier was quite pleased anyone hit paper at any distance..or would that be another bone of contention???

I love guns but . . . this idiot belongs in jail. He gives gun owners a bad name.

The 15 year-old girl that was killed - lost her mother three months ago when a truck piled into her. 54 years old. So two generations wiped out by idiots.

I've been hearing of many "accidental" killings lately - especially from hunters who thought someone was an elk, bear, or deer. With many -no charges filed. Come on! If you slip and fall and your gun goes off and kills someone - that is an accident. If you shoot at something moving in the bushes and kill somebody - it's murder in my book.
Same if you fire a rifle up into the air. How hard is it to point at the ground?

How about the jerk in Vermont last month that shot and killed his best friend hunting-buddy? Before his friend even bled out and died - the guy shot himself and committed suicide. Hmmm. Think he should of called an ambulance first.

During the Civil War there was a group of soldiers, Col. Berdan's sharpshooters. To qualify for the sharpshooters, the shooter had to keep 10 consecutive shots in a 10 inch bull at 200 yards.This was often done with rifles they had brought from home. There are several instances where a sharpshooter hit his target at a one mile range. Those in Berdan's sharpshooters often said... "if we can see it we can hit it". I believe most of the time they were using a Springfield Armory .58 Cal. Zohave rifle.
Cal

In the south, yes, volunteers brought their own rifles, everyone who owned one brought their own. I believe... but I am often told I am wrong on here... yankee Col. Berdan's sharpshooters..... were usually shooting .... Sharps....1859 models, side hammer, straight dropping block .52 cal paper cartridge, tape primed...30 or 36 inch barrels with ladder sights. Most Confererate Sharps were exBritish Army, used in the Crimean War a few years earlier. But within mintues I will be told I am making it up....or off by .058", btw, in common practice, before this rifle became famous, an good shot was called a 'marksman'...

Union Maj. Gen. John Sedgwick has the (distinction? ) of being the highest-ranking combat fatality in the Civil War. At the battle of Spotsylvania Courthouse (a very nasty fight) he was directing artillery placements; his staff were flinching and dodging at the hum of bullets around them, aimed in their direction by Confederate sharpshooters 1,000 yards away. Sedgwick, a courageous old bird who had about a half-dozen holes in his hide from being wounded in other battles, was rebuking his men for being so skittish. His final words were, “…..they couldn’t hit an elephant at this distance.” A second or two later a bullet went through his head.

I saw a man killed once hunting,grandad sitting in the bushes with his maybe 10 year old grandson sitting beside him calling turkeys. Fellow about 200 yards away saw him move his hands and shot him right through the chest with a 243. Seriously,the only thing that saved that shooter was the game ranger showed up in time. Their were several other hunters there (five in our group) who wanted to shoot him in the head with his own rifle,and not one of us even knew the old man who was shot! sad, sad, thing to happen out of pure stupidity.