China made

oldironman · Dec 21, 2011

Just for kicks I bought a lighted jewelers loop from China on eBay for $.99 to see what I got. Well low and behold, I couldn't believe it. The thing was quite a piece. It had 65X power and was lighted with two LED lights for white light and one LED for ultraviolet light with batteries included. Three dollars to get it here. Worth every penny. I use it to work on carburetors and it works great. After doing some checking after I bought it I see that you need to be careful who you buy from though. I guess I was lucky about getting the right seller. The point is that we could learn something about how they do businesses. I just can't believe that they can make such a fine instrument like that and still make money and they sell them for that all the time.

Animal · Dec 21, 2011

Not to be a wise guy, but its those twelve year olds with those little bitty fingers. I have a buddy thats a big shot with a local plastics factory and they make pumps for plastic bottles, like window cleaner and the like....the stories he has told me about the working conditions and the pay scales was scary. His company started another plant there and he has had to go over there quite a bit.

mkirsch · Dec 21, 2011

It wasn't all that long ago that the working conditions and pay scales here were abysmal when we industrialized.

Then we got unions, and things got better.

China is not far from a labor uprising.

Old Iron · Dec 21, 2011

(quoted from post at 08:16:05 12/21/11) It wasn't all that long ago that the working conditions and pay scales here were abysmal when we industrialized.

[b:2957afdd92]Then we got unions, and things got better.[/b:2957afdd92]

China is not far from a labor uprising.

That is a matter of "opinion". :roll:

MarkWV · Dec 21, 2011

What ebayer, sounds like something my tired old eyes could use on the teeny tiny stuff, Mark

rockyridgefarm · Dec 21, 2011

I'm sure we all long for the good old days when the rich manufacturer could chain us to our machines and lock the doors to prevent escapees. They could fire us for not working 14 hour days 7 days a week or being home sick for a day. Heck, we even bring our 12 year old children in to work as well.

Or the good old days where mine owners could lock us down in the mines without any sort of safety measures and if we survived long enough to get black lung, they could fire us and let us die at home. we got to play the "Do we die of sickness or starvation?" game with all our other downtrodden friends!

You're absolutely right. We have a lot to learn from China - how NOT to do things.

donjr · Dec 21, 2011

I was reading somewhere (or saw) a thing the other day about a builder in Montana. He was building a house with products made only in the U.S. Story went tnat if all builders in the country used as little as 5% U.S. made goods, it would create almost a quarter million jobs in this country. They also had a list of some hundred products for the industry made only here for other buiders to use, and it had been checked by several gurus who said the figures checked out. It would put a bunch of small fingers out of work--

John Harmon · Dec 21, 2011

A simple google for"China labor Unrest" will show it has already started and the chinese laborers are just about at the breaking point.The communist dictators are amassing a large army to keep control of their own population,not to fight a war with other countrys as some would have you believe.We must remember if not for American Manufactuers who are chasing the money machine,China and other 3rd world countries would have no reason to send any thing around the world to markets that don"t exist.Any one who holds a stock of a Corporation which supports exporting production and importing products must share the blame for the imbalance of trade with China or other Countrys whose products glut the markets of the world and depress employment oppurtunities of these same markets.

Old Iron · Dec 21, 2011

(quoted from post at 09:15:57 12/21/11)
I'm sure we all long for the good old days when the rich manufacturer could chain [b:b8c6b8fb0a]us[/b:b8c6b8fb0a] to our machines and lock the doors to prevent escapees. They could fire [b:b8c6b8fb0a]us[/b:b8c6b8fb0a] for not working 14 hour days 7 days a week or being home sick for a day. Heck, [b:b8c6b8fb0a]we[/b:b8c6b8fb0a] even bring [b:b8c6b8fb0a]our[/b:b8c6b8fb0a] 12 year old children in to work as well.

Or the good old days where mine owners could lock [b:b8c6b8fb0a]us[/b:b8c6b8fb0a] down in the mines without any sort of safety measures and if [b:b8c6b8fb0a]we[/b:b8c6b8fb0a] survived long enough to get black lung, they could fire [b:b8c6b8fb0a]us[/b:b8c6b8fb0a] and let [b:b8c6b8fb0a]us[/b:b8c6b8fb0a] die at home. [b:b8c6b8fb0a]we[/b:b8c6b8fb0a] got to play the "Do [b:b8c6b8fb0a]we[/b:b8c6b8fb0a] die of sickness or starvation?" game with all [b:b8c6b8fb0a]our[/b:b8c6b8fb0a] other downtrodden friends!

You're absolutely right. We have a lot to learn from China - how NOT to do things.

Drama Queen much? :roll:

I'm really surprised [b:b8c6b8fb0a]you[/b:b8c6b8fb0a] survived (to this day) after working under those awful conditions.

RayP(MI) · Dec 21, 2011

sold as a "loss leader?"

oldironman · Dec 21, 2011

The seller was King6729. They had about 1200 items listed.

rockyridgefarm · Dec 21, 2011

Yeah, my ancestor survived those conditions, as did yours. We're lucky.

The Chinese Elite see their population as an expendable commodity. As did our Elite. We had a short run where the average worker was valued as a human being. But the rich are reasserting their claim that we are in fact an expendable commodity.

Every time you go and buy some cheap trinket made with extremely questionable practices and brag it up, you're agreeing with them.

Old Iron · Dec 21, 2011

(quoted from post at 13:27:25 12/21/11)
Yeah, my ancestor survived those conditions, as did yours. We're lucky.

The Chinese Elite see their population as an expendable commodity. As did our Elite. We had a short run where the average worker was valued as a human being. [b:aee6488d4b][color=red:aee6488d4b]But the rich are reasserting their claim that we are in fact an expendable commodity.[/color:aee6488d4b][/b:aee6488d4b]

Every time you go and buy some cheap trinket made with extremely questionable practices and brag it up, you're agreeing with them.

How are the "rich" reasserting their claim that we are an expendable commodity?
You sound like a drama queen,... or, one of the OWS hippies! :roll: :roll:

How old are you "farmer[b:aee6488d4b][color=red:aee6488d4b]boy[/color:aee6488d4b][/b:aee6488d4b]"? :lol: :lol:

rockyridgefarm · Dec 21, 2011

The rich - shareholders of HBC, Walmart, Halliburton, Exxon-Mobil, ADM, Agrium, Phillip Morris, etc. Not guys like you and me who have $20000 or $150,000 in our 401Ks or mutaul funds but guys who have millions or billions in the market. They can vote how the company runs and if it takes out a few workers to help their dividends, oh well. If their company kills off a few miners, at least it saved them all that money it would have cost to keep them alive. If the company brings in cheap magnifying glasses from China that they can sell for 99 cents and displaces an American worker that used to make them at the cost of 10 bucks each, who cares how they were made? "Race to the bottom" is a game only the rich win.

I'd rather sound like an OWS hippie versus a guy who might live 15 more years (but probably won't because his gov't administered Medicare will run out waayyy sooner) and doesn't give two hoots about the swath his generation cuts as they go out.

Old Iron · Dec 21, 2011

(quoted from post at 17:43:02 12/21/11)
The rich - shareholders of HBC, Walmart, Halliburton, Exxon-Mobil, ADM, Agrium, Phillip Morris, etc. Not guys like you and me who have $20000 or $150,000 in our 401Ks or mutaul funds but guys who have millions or billions in the market. They can vote how the company runs and if it takes out a few workers to help their dividends, oh well. If their company kills off a few miners, at least it saved them all that money it would have cost to keep them alive. If the company brings in cheap magnifying glasses from China that they can sell for 99 cents and displaces an American worker that used to make them at the cost of 10 bucks each, who cares how they were made? "Race to the bottom" is a game only the rich win.

I'd rather sound like an OWS hippie versus a guy who might live 15 more years (but probably won't because his gov't administered Medicare will run out waayyy sooner) and doesn't give two hoots about the swath his generation cuts as they go out.

If the price of magnifying glasses, my medicare, and big company shareholders are major concerns of yours,... you live in a pathetic little world.

When you grow up and become a "farmer[b:d9d4a55565][color=red:d9d4a55565]man[/color:d9d4a55565][/b:d9d4a55565]" you'll realize that without big business, the United States would soon join the ranks of other 3rd. world countries.

If you don't like the way things are in this country,... MOVE (no one is stopping you).

The more I think about it,... I think you are a "crying wannabe union hack" working a low lever job at some company that makes magnifying glasses, and you think you should have one-half the company's money because you are (somehow) "special".
IF you are "special",... go create your own big company and join the 1%. :lol: :lol:

oldtanker · Dec 21, 2011

(quoted from post at 10:12:21 12/21/11) We must remember if not for American Manufactuers who are chasing the money machine,China and other 3rd world countries would have no reason to send any thing around the world to markets that don"t exist.

Yea it's not like anyone would buy anything based on price point! It's all the companies chasing the money machine........sure it is....I'm convinced...well almost.....errr not at all!

If it wasn't for the consumer DEMANDING cheap products and little things like OHSA and the EPA making it more expensive to produce stuff here that the CONSUMER wants for cheap......the companies wouldn't be shipping jobs off shore.

Rick

rockyridgefarm · Dec 21, 2011

If you must know, I never in my life have worked for a union. Personally, i think the unions are ALMOST as big a part of the problem as the rich. I also have never been fired from a job. I also have never been unemployed since the day I turned 18. I'm 31 and quit my last job (Commercial Pesticide Applicator) a year ago to buy my FIL's 360 acre farm. I work on the farm full time and have a wife who works off the farm for insurance and for enough money to keep the kids in clothes. I have a 5 year old daughter and a 2 year old son. I hope to leave a better world to them than your generation left for me.

If I am not to worry about how big business operates, whether or not you and I get medicare (or SS, or schooling for my children, or basic fire and police protection, or well maintained highways), or whether or not my children are gonna get a decent shot at making a living for themselves, what should I worry about? Seems to me these are not the worries of a "drama queen".

Do you tell your kids that if they don't like it, leave? What do you tell the Mexicans that don't like their country of Mexico when they leave to come here? Personally, I'd rather they stay in Mexico and change it to their liking as I prefer to stay here and change here to my liking. Big business and the rich prefer that they come here, work for starvation wages, and go home when they get sick or old.

You may not care to admit it, but we have more in common than we have not.

Good day sir.

Paul from MI · Dec 21, 2011

Why did I have to fillout about one sheet of paper for every pound of V.O.C.'s our plant put into the atmosphere when the Chinese put tons of it into the air? Then we wonder why we aren't competitive anymore. Same thing with any other facet of doing business in the US.

oldtanker · Dec 21, 2011

Paul, an old classmate of mine is an engineer who works for a company that makes gas grills. They were trying to keep all of their manufacturing in the US. Then the EPA declared that brass and steel with trace amounts of lead in them as an anti corrosive/rust inhibitor they just couldn't make the valves and regulators in the stated any loner because of the price increases caused by hazmat hauling and OSHA mandated handling of the now hazardous brass in the plant.

Great job EPA and OSHA!

Rick

Old Iron · Dec 22, 2011

Farmerboy, you keep complaining how my "generation" has made it so rough for yours,... I find that rather odd since I've never even thought about blaming previous generations for any of my problems.

You also speak about how your ancestors suffered in the mines at the hands of big companies.
Would you also say that,... when I was six years old and forked hay to our cows in zero degree weather, while getting paid a [b:38e471f2f1]DIME PER WEEK ALLOWANCE[/b:38e471f2f1], that my dad didn't care for my life, or "well being" in the late 1940's?
He worked in town at the local lumber yard ($37.00 per week), to help pay for our farm.
I took great pride in helping him any way I could around the farm.

I started working for a general contractor (building houses) at the age of 14, I worked for him on weekends and after school, and during school summer vacations (4 years).
I also helped my dad farm his land (at the same time) in the evenings, rarely going to bed before midnight throughout most of the year.
Shortly after graduating high school I was drafted into the military.

I never once thought about [b:38e471f2f1]"blaming"[/b:38e471f2f1] anyone for ANY of my early life experiences, I simply accepted everything as "my lot in life" and continued to work and do the very best I could for my family.
I've known others of my "generation", that have also lived life much the same as me, and I've yet to hear any of them "lay blame" to big companies, or other generations, for any perceived short-comings in their lives.

You've got 2 kids, aged 5 and 2????

I've got 11 grand kids,... and I'm going to be a "great" grandpa in 2 months.

The only real difference I see between you and me is,... you apparently have some severe "need" to blame someone's generation (or some big company) for some real (or imagined) problems in your life,... while [b:38e471f2f1]I simply DON'T find such a "need" in mine[/b:38e471f2f1]!

Having said that,... I do blame the unions for many of the problems with this country today.

Good luck in life,... I'm sure your perspective on lots of things will change by the time you're my age.

RedRoundhead · Dec 22, 2011

Whe you have low overhead, and low wages, you can engineer good products, and have them be good.

In china, there is no OSHA, no overtime pay, no health insurance, no EPA, no workman's comp. No lawyer to help a worker if you get hurt. There is no unemployment insurance, either.

You cannot use Google, it is filtered by the governement.
Most farmers farm 1.5 acres of land they do not own it, the goevernment leases it to them. Tennent farming.

I manufacture gears, and we always must compete with the Chinese and Koreans. They can pay a worker $20 a week, while we pay $20 an hour, plus all those services I had previously mentioned. So, they can buy the million dollar 6 axis machining centers that do a part completely in one setup, and then pay a parts changer next to nothing to swap parts. Acually, most larger businesses have robots swap the parts.

This is what is called a free market. Be glad you are on the purchasing end of low cost manufacturing. The other end is very challenging.

Anonymous-0 · Dec 22, 2011

wife does export for her company... Do rubber/plastic seals and parts. Get a Sachs or SKF brand sealed bearing for example... Bearing part is produced here a half mile from the wife's company, her company does the plastic, both companies send their product to china for assembly and it is sent back to the bearing producer to be distributed.........

rockyridgefarm · Dec 22, 2011

You're right that I was heavy on blaming the past generation in my previous posts. I regret that. There are many things that are within my control in my life and I do my best to make a good living for my family. I bought my FIL's farm so I could give my kids the growing-up experience you had and I had on the farm. Kids growing up on the farm with responsibilities are more likely to survive the up-hill struggle this world provides. I don't like the way farming in general is going - bigger and bigger and bigger. Slimmer margins and bigger debts. Much like big business. There was a farmer showcased in Successful Farming a while back that stated the Bankruptcy has to be considered as a tool to continue farming. Was that considered a tool in farming in your generation?

I agree our perspectives are greatly different, mainly due to the era in which we grew up. You grew up in the 50's and 60's. A guy with some work ethic could lift himself "by his bootstraps" so to speak. A farmer could make a decent living back then on 30 cows or 500 acres. He didn't have new trucks every year and work was hard, but hey it was a living. A guy who wanted to build a business could start out small and slowly grow the the size that best suited him and his situation. What happened since? Do you honestly think a fellow can do that this day?

How did Mit get rich? It wasn't through a good, hard work ethic. It was through cold calculating of how to best destroy a business while lining his pockets in the process. How did Newt get rich? He took money from anyone who was handing it out and then parroted what they wanted him to say. How did external_link get rich? He wrote a book. Not a one built anything.

When you were growing up, was there any such thing as a Wal-mart? No. Walmart and the rest of the Big Box Stores enrich their shareholders by sourcing materials anywhere they can get them for the lowest price - nothing else matters. They care nothing for their employees or the employees of their subsidiaries or the employees of the manufacturers of their products. They don't even really care about their customers - only profit. It's been this way forever with BIG business.

Small and mid-sized businesses usually care about the community in which they live. Look at your home-town bank VS any large bank. Odds are, the president of your local bank lives right in your community or a community not far away. Odds are you don't even know the CEO of the large bank in your community. Community awareness by these small businesses is becoming less so today as they have to engage in the cut-throat tactics big business has engaged in forever. Any mid-sized business today has only one hope - to get big enough to get noticed by a bigger business and then get gobbled up by them.

Businesses were never the huge, global corporations they are today. Banks weren't trading on pennies. Today, a large investment bank can make thousands of stock transactions a second. Ford stock goes down 1 point at 10:51 am Monday morning, They buy a hundred thousand shares. It goes up a point at 10:52, they sell them. How do you and I compete? Why shouldn't there be a penny-per-trade tax on all stock market transactions? Well, because the rich wouldn't like that, would they?

RedRoundhead · Dec 22, 2011

Yes. you can dodge the tarrifs/taxes depending on tax classification and point of assembly/manuafacture of said part. It is kinda dumb from a practical standpoint, but makes $en$e from an accounting standpoint.

oldtanker · Dec 22, 2011

(quoted from post at 07:58:03 12/22/11)
You're right that I was heavy on blaming the past generation in my previous posts. I regret that. There are many things that are within my control in my life and I do my best to make a good living for my family. I bought my FIL's farm so I could give my kids the growing-up experience you had and I had on the farm. Kids growing up on the farm with responsibilities are more likely to survive the up-hill struggle this world provides. I don't like the way farming in general is going - bigger and bigger and bigger. Slimmer margins and bigger debts. Much like big business. There was a farmer showcased in Successful Farming a while back that stated the Bankruptcy has to be considered as a tool to continue farming. Was that considered a tool in farming in your generation?

I agree our perspectives are greatly different, mainly due to the era in which we grew up. You grew up in the 50's and 60's. A guy with some work ethic could lift himself "by his bootstraps" so to speak. A farmer could make a decent living back then on 30 cows or 500 acres. He didn't have new trucks every year and work was hard, but hey it was a living. A guy who wanted to build a business could start out small and slowly grow the the size that best suited him and his situation. What happened since? Do you honestly think a fellow can do that this day?

How did Mit get rich? It wasn't through a good, hard work ethic. It was through cold calculating of how to best destroy a business while lining his pockets in the process. How did Newt get rich? He took money from anyone who was handing it out and then parroted what they wanted him to say. How did external_link get rich? He wrote a book. Not a one built anything.

When you were growing up, was there any such thing as a Wal-mart? No. Walmart and the rest of the Big Box Stores enrich their shareholders by sourcing materials anywhere they can get them for the lowest price - nothing else matters. They care nothing for their employees or the employees of their subsidiaries or the employees of the manufacturers of their products. They don't even really care about their customers - only profit. It's been this way forever with BIG business.

Small and mid-sized businesses usually care about the community in which they live. Look at your home-town bank VS any large bank. Odds are, the president of your local bank lives right in your community or a community not far away. Odds are you don't even know the CEO of the large bank in your community. Community awareness by these small businesses is becoming less so today as they have to engage in the cut-throat tactics big business has engaged in forever. Any mid-sized business today has only one hope - to get big enough to get noticed by a bigger business and then get gobbled up by them.

Businesses were never the huge, global corporations they are today. Banks weren't trading on pennies. Today, a large investment bank can make thousands of stock transactions a second. Ford stock goes down 1 point at 10:51 am Monday morning, They buy a hundred thousand shares. It goes up a point at 10:52, they sell them. How do you and I compete? Why shouldn't there be a penny-per-trade tax on all stock market transactions? Well, because the rich wouldn't like that, would they?

Boy that sounds like something the donkey party puts out and not original thought.

Box stores were around before you were born. Sear, Gibson's and others. We have been outsorcing for more than 100 years too. The inventor of the 40 hour week and decent pay because he felt that the 40 hour week would make employees happy and reduce absentism and that his workers should be able to afford what the were making was Henery Ford, and he did it long before there was a UAW.

All these plans to make the rich "pay their fair share" is more like pay way more than their fair share. The top 10% pay about 1/2 of all income taxes paid. How is that thier fair share when many don't pay anything....when are they going to pay thier fair share. I don't care if it's a buck everyone needs to pay their fair share. 47% of Americans pay no taxes! Thats about 150 million people.

So how bout just putting forth the facts?

Rick

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