Building barn- buried post or on blocks

what type of structure is your old barn?

I am planning on rebuilding my old barn this summer and also build a storage shed for the equipment. There are a lot of pole buildings going in around here as there are in other places in the country. I see most dig a hole, put the 8x8 post in and then pour concrete around the post. I assume the 8x8 is pressure treated. How long is a post like this good for before it rots off? I live in Washington on the west side, so it it a bit wetter here than in other places and I worry about the post rotting off.
I had thought about taking the 8x8 posts and secure them to concrete footings using the metal shoes that you can purchase at Home Depot and other places. Maybe dig the same hole, fill with concrete and put int the metal shoe to hold the post.
My dads old barn that lasted for 50 years just had conrete pads 2 ft x 2 ft x 4 or 6 inchs thick that the main posts in the barn sat on. The barn stood up under some pretty heavy winds a earth quake or two. The barn not having the shakes replaced on it finally did the old barn in.
Thoughts on barn building and post installation?

I like to put the post on top of the concrete rather than the concrete around the post, for the reason you described. Around here 3' is the minimum to bury to get below frost line for a building, so it is a lot of work to lay that many blocks. I did that for the building here that houses the tractors and sawmill but the wings are post construction. There are different kinds or degrees of treatment done to posts and I do not understand the distinctions among them.
Zach

If you are concerned about rot, you could pour a series of footers with threaded rods sticking 8 3/4 inches above the top. Make sure that each footer is level with the rest. You can then bolt a sill plate (an 8x8 pressure treated if that's what the rest of the barn will be framed with) across the bottom and build from there up. That way none of the wood is sumerged in the concrete or dirt. You can use a barrier under the sill.

My old barn is 4x4 on concrete piers that are pretty small. The current barn is only 12 x 16 and just big enough to house the hay. Want to get the hay up in the loft and thee animals in side to protect them and hay feeding area from the elements.

The way I understand pole setting is like this:

Dig hole 48" deep then put 6" of concrete inthe hole, let harden. Then set the pole on top of the concrete pad. Then pour pea gravel around the pole filling the hole to the top. This is the way so that water will drain/seep away from the pole into the soil.

I had to get a permit, so ask your county building inspector what he wants. My posts had to be 48" deep.

X2

Midwest sent concrete cookies for the bottom of the holes.
Anti-uplift blocks got installed around the bottoms of the poles.
Contractor filled with 1 1/2" limestone all the way up.

(quoted from post at 15:51:05 12/16/11) I am planning on rebuilding my old barn this summer and also build a storage shed for the equipment. There are a lot of pole buildings going in around here as there are in other places in the country. I see most dig a hole, put the 8x8 post in and then pour concrete around the post. I assume the 8x8 is pressure treated. How long is a post like this good for before it rots off? I live in Washington on the west side, so it it a bit wetter here than in other places and I worry about the post rotting off.
I had thought about taking the 8x8 posts and secure them to concrete footings using the metal shoes that you can purchase at Home Depot and other places. Maybe dig the same hole, fill with concrete and put int the metal shoe to hold the post.
My dads old barn that lasted for 50 years just had conrete pads 2 ft x 2 ft x 4 or 6 inchs thick that the main posts in the barn sat on. The barn stood up under some pretty heavy winds a earth quake or two. The barn not having the shakes replaced on it finally did the old barn in.
Thoughts on barn building and post installation?

Click to expand...

Problem solved..............check out Perma Column
http://www.permacolumn.com/what_are_perma-columns.asp

Most of the bury requirement is to resist lifting, in a windstorm. Check with your building department. I did one once, with steel strap buried in 24" concrete filled hole, then bolted the 6 X 6 to it. Was using homemade lumber, so didn't want to bury because it wasn't pressure treated.

But then, I didn't seek the participation of the building dept., either. . .

i second the perma-column

Pour a wall. Blocks are quick, cheap and WEAK.

Only did one in Mich. We dropped bag of cement in each hole. Understanding was they will set up soon enough and there is your pad. Dave

I've built five pole barns. I always dig a hole about 42inches deep. Then put about 6 inches of concrete in the bottom and set the presure treated pole on top of the cement. Back filled the hole with the dirt I dug out of the hole. The first was 35 years ago and there have been no problems with it. That was a 24x40 ft. I have a 32x72 with 14 ft. sidewalls that I built 22 years ago and have had no problems. I live in Mi. where we get alot of frost and cold weather. Not saying I did it right but that was the code here when I built the first one.

Saw one at a farm auction recently that had round concrete footer about 12 inches above the ground line with post on top of it. They had embedded angle iron in the concrete on each side of the post and lag bolted them to the post.

I just took down a building that was built in 1990 and pulled the posts out of the ground. I then broke off the concrete and the wood looks brand new. The catch is, in 1990 you could buy treated wood with arsenic in it. I doubt if the wood now would last as long.

I had a Morton brand building built in 1981. Their technique is to use 3 short pieces of 2x something that are very highly pressure treated and bury in concrete. The tops are different lengths and they complete the framing by bolting 3 more pieces on and going on up.

Seemed like a great idea at the time, but the "foundation" if you will is shot (rotted) and has been for at least the last 5 years. Any day I expect it to blow away.

My newest barn is from a different barn builder and he uses a full 5" square treated timber for verticals and bury in concrete. He also had a 1/8" or so, square plastic sleeve about 4' long that you slip over the pole prior to insertion in the ground that keeps the pole away from the elements...so I added that at $25 a pop. The new ban has a shed as an extension of the roof and I did not use them on the shed part as I didn't want rain water to fill them up and rot out the posts. I figure if those fail I can easily replace them.

Around here, if you don't stick it in the ground, or in the case of steel, bolt it to an anchor embedded in a concrete slab, then you can plan on talking your neighbors into letting you retrieve your barn from their south 40.

HTH,

Mark

The absolute smartest thing you could do is use perma column. You can get them for any size standard post you want to use. The posts are pre cast concrete, under pressure with metal brackets to fit the posts. Ellis

Sounds like a good idea. Termites and water have a problem dealing with concrete. I know they make adapters that can be imbedded in concrete and you can attach a pole via a large bolt. That should work ok.

Mark