electrical conversion

What is involved in converting an alternator with external voltage regulator, to a alternator with internal voltage regulator? I have a Oliver 1650, diesel, two six volt batteries hooked in series, with an alternator and external voltage regulator that is giving me nothing but problems.

Not to bad, I did that conversion on an 856 IH last winter that uses the same alternator as your Oliver.
What you have now, the external reg alt is a Delco 10DN. An internal regulator Delco 10-12 SI is a direct bolt on fit and the wiring changes are pretty minor, requiring only a jumper wire plugged into the original regulator plug and replacing the plug at the alternator with the correct one for a Delco SI series alt.

You can also hook an electronic regulator to the 10DN on the outside if wanted. The new electronic regs don"t have the issues the old mechanical regs have.

I changed my 1550. No trouble at all. If the 1650 is the same,you only have a single wire coming down to the alternator anyway. The rest just go from the regulator to the alternator that's on it. Unhook that one wire,take off the alternator/regulator combo and put the single wire alternator on. Hook that one wire up and you're good to go.
There was one more problem on mine though. for some reason,if it sat too long,it would draw the battery down,so I had to run that single wire to a toggle that I mounted in the dash,then down to the alternator so I could turn it off if it was going to sit. My brother worked in the auto parts store at the time and said the instructions said it was likely to do that. I don't know the hows or whys,I just know it did. The guy at the rebuild shop said it shouldn't. I don't know.

Well as such you can not convert an alternator with external V.R. to one with an internal one but you can replace the old one with a newer one and do some rewiring of things. Probably to easiest one to replace it with is one from say a 1980 Chev pick up no power any thing no AC. Then remove the wiring for the V.R. and wire it up as if posted here many many times

Rrlund found out why those 1 wire alternators aren't all that great. Just use an ordinary Delco 10SI. One wire on the regulator goes to the battery, the other to the ignition switch. Run it through a small bulb and you have a charge warning indicator.

Yeah, but you can buy a new external regulator that is all electronic and had no mechanical parts to fail. Only cost $13 new That is for the Delco 10DN alternator.

You can also buy a tiny transistorized unit that's only 1" square and it bolts directly to the back of the 10DN.

$13 for a new external solid-state reg.

http://cpgenerator.com/voltageregulators.html

$30 for an external solid-state reg that converts the 10DN to one-wire hookup if wanted.

One wire regs work fine when done right. SI series takes a little higher RPM then the CS series to first cut-in, but they all work just fine.

Ah but you still have all the extra wiring and at the point he is at he could have either a bad alternator and or a bad V.R. so ya he could buy a V.R. but if it is a bad alternator he then has to buy that also so which is better it would have to be up to him and which he thinks will work best

But very few 1 wires are done right and most are not even done by Delco/GM and are done by after market companies and those can be at best a night mare

I converted my JD-40 to 12 volt one wire alternator 4 years ago. No problems, works great.

I'd go with the 3 wire. I've got 2 tractors set up with the 3 wire and one that I got with a one wire. All three work. I don't really like the one wire because I have to start the tractor, let it idle for a bit then run it up to make it kick in. If I'm feeding a round bale thats start it and run it about 10 min to make sure everything is well lubed before I kick the RPM'S up. 5 min to feed the bale and another 10 min or so at high idle to charged the batts back up. With the 3 wire they start charging right away so I could feed the bale after the initial warm up and shut it down....go get a cup of coffee.....when it's -20 that extra time outside letting the batts charge isn't fun. Summer time is no problem cause after warm up it's getting run to do field work or haying. My 2 3 wires are set up with a diode rather than the light bum someone else mentioned. Both ways work.

RIck

No argument with that. I have no idea what his problem is, but he DID express repeated problems of some sort. Delco 10DN is just as reliable as the SI series. The weak link with the 10DN is the original external mechanical regulator. The new electronic regulators for $13 are a great fix IF the reg is the issue.

No argument with that. I have no idea what his problem is, but he DID express repeated problems of some sort. Delco 10DN is just as reliable as the SI series. The weak link with the 10DN is the original external mechanical regulator. The new electronic regulators for $13 are a great fix IF the reg is the issue.

You kind of lost me with all that. Takes little effort to rev up the engine. If the alernator is a 50-60 amp, once charging . . your batteries ought to recharge pretty fast.

A typical diesel tractor draws 150 amps of current for what . . . - 15 seconds to cold start? When the alternator starts charging at 50 amps, it will take 45 seconds to charge back the batteries, not 10 minutes.

Plus the fact that buying a GM alternator with a built in V.R. cost no more then buying one with out it built in and at times the one with out the V.R. can cost a good bit more so in turn in the long run it is cheaper to buy the one with the built in V.R. and if you buy like I do they have a life time warranty so if it stops working it cost you only time to replace it

If a 1650 is like my 1950's, it has an ammeter instead of a charge light, so a "one wire" alt will work fine. I find that the smaller the stator winding in a SI series alt, the lower rpm at which it will self excite. A 37 amp one wire Delco will self excite at less than 1/2 the rpm needed for a 61 or 72 amp one wire model.


I don't know where guys are getting those screwy Delco SI series "1 wire" alternators that draw down the battery ?
The aftermarket "1 wire" or self exciting regulators I have used for 20+ years sell for the same price as a stock "3 wire" regulator and have no connection to the battery, so it is impossible for them to draw down the battery.

If the tractor uses a "charge light", then the 3 wire alternator is the best choice, as connecting the charge light to the #1 regulator lead gives both low rpm charging and a functioning charge light.

One interesting fact, a "1 wire" alternator will function perfectly as a 3 wire type, so nothing is lost if you try a "1 wire" alternator, then decide you want lower excite speed or want / need a charge indicator light.

This is directly from an information sheet that was packaged with my last dozen box of "1 wire" self exciting Delco regulators.
I have done that, wired a 1 wire alt as a 3 wire and find it works perfectly as a 3 wire unit.

The 1 wire alt used as a 3 wire, does not need the #2 sense wire connected, but you might as well install it, it will not bother the 1 wire regulator and is in place if you ever want to replace it with a stock 3 wire regulator.

The 1650 has an amp guage like your 1950 and my 1550. As far as if or why they draw down the battery,I don't know any more about electricity than it can shock you. I'm just telling you flat out,it would draw down the battery on my 1550. After I put the toggle in it and started turning it off,10 years or more ago,it won't. Not opinion,just fact. Like I said,the local rebuilder says it shouldn't be doing that either. It just does.

I took the Motorola off my 2-135 White and went to a single wire Delco on that one and it's fine. No draw down.

I don't doubt that what you say about that one wire alt is fact, not questioning that at all. Just saying that a 1 wire alt done correctly will not do that.

There is a newer type 1 wire regulator that does connect to the battery stud and will very slowly discharge the battery. They excite at lower rpm, but to me the trade off of having something that slowly discharges the battery is not worth the slightly lower excite speed. Something similar was used in the very early Factory Delco 1 wire alternators that had the little red plug you could install in one of 4 positions to adjust the charging voltage, they would also slowly bleed the battery.

The one you had that would kill the battery either has that type of regulator, or has a bad diode in the rectifier pack.

For 30+ years I have repaired, rebuilt and modified those SI series alternators to meet my needs(1 wire, 3 wire, large / small output), so I know them well. I build my own 1 wire alternators so I know which type of regulator was used. Buying a 1 wire alt from an auto parts store can be a crapshoot, as you dont know what was used inside. If you own a digital volt ohm meter, you can use the MA section to see if the alt in question puts any drain on the battery. A correctly done 1 or 3 wire alt should register little or no MA draw when connected between the battery lead and the BAT stud on the alt rear. If it does show a draw, take it back and try a 1 wire alt from another shop.

I have a 1 wire alternator on my military Jeep& my JD A(both converted to 12 volt). Sits all winter and starts right up in the spring, never had a problem. If you put one on a tractor be sure to get the small pulley for it. John Deere only has to rev to about 750 rpm to charge with the small pulley.

What kind of problems are you having with the current set up?

I bought a one wire kit off the net from a company in Illinois and installed it myself in a 10 SI, it charges right off the starter at idle as it was advertized to do. It's on a 44 Massey using the generator pulley.

The batteries are not charging when the tractor is being used. When I operate the tractor for more than a couple of hours at a time the next day the batteries are dead. I can recharge the batteries and use it for about a hour and then shut it down and the next time it will start, even after setting for a week. This October I install new batteries, a new voltage regulator and a new alternator. I have been having this problem for a couple of years.

(quoted from post at 11:47:22 12/10/11) You kind of lost me with all that. Takes little effort to rev up the engine. If the alernator is a 50-60 amp, once charging . . your batteries ought to recharge pretty fast.

A typical diesel tractor draws 150 amps of current for what . . . - 15 seconds to cold start? When the alternator starts charging at 50 amps, it will take 45 seconds to charge back the batteries, not 10 minutes.

Click to expand...

LJD....It takes a little longer to start than 15 seconds when it's -20 out. Plus I've never had an alternator hit peak out put from charging. I have an AMP meter on the tractor with the one wire. For it to get close to 0 AMPS it's gotta run about 10 min hitting a peak output of about 25 Amps. And at -20 I start and leave it about 1000 RPMS for about 10 min. Then never run it faster than that while feeding a bale which only takes about 3 min. Then it takes about another 10 min at 1500 RPMs to get the alternator to kick in and for it to drop rom about 20-25 AMPS to near 0. When you get -20 to -30 you don't play around with battery charge. You make sure before it gets cold that everything is good and then be sure to keep the battery up on charge.


Besides that the alternator may put out 50 AMPS but just because you are trying to cram that in isn't a sure bet that the battery will accept a charge rate that fast. And that advertized charge rate isn't at 1500 RPMs....

I am going over to the 3 wire on the tractor with the one wire because it will reduce the amount of time I'm out in - weather. My 2 tractors with the 3 wire charge at about 500 RPMS as soon as the tractors start. Just too bad that they are big enough to move 1800 pound bales.

Rick