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Ethanol

J

john in la

Well-known Member
Location
What part of in La do you not understand
Is it just me or do others see a problem with ethanol. I am really trying to understand the reasoning behind the use of ethanol but find it real hard to do.

First; The government subsidizes ethanol. This is a real sticking point for me because I believe every industry should stand on its own. If it is not profitable government subsidies (and/or tax breaks) is not the answer.

Second; The government just about crams E10 down our throats with the Renewable Fuel Standards (RFS) making it very hard to find 100% gas made from oil.

Third; There is talk that we will need to go to E15 or higher to meet the RFS of the next few years. In fact I believe congress voted on or at least considered removing the E10 cap allowing (but not mandating) the sale of E15.

Then I read a article in a local magazine where the governments own test show that some motors will not run on E15 without damage severe enough to prevent finishing the test.

So what am I missing here???????

e15test.gif


http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y137/johnLA/e15test.gif
 
Great article in BoatUS last month I think, dispelling and proving ethanol myths.
so they says. It doesn't help small engines or Marine engines that I have owned.
 
I just have to say that way up north here ware you can ice up your gas tank i really like to fill up with ethanol when available to keep the watter out....I had tanks when you couldn't get enough heat or smiler product to get you going but a little ethanol really works great..
 
I been runnin e10 to e85 for the last 30 years it is here to stay get used to it.The big oil Co are tax subsidised why not ethanol?At least it is made here
 
http://westernfarmpress.com/government/brazilian-ethanol-imports-likely-increase-under-california-lcfs-program

Not all of it is made here.
 
The use of Ethanol in gasoline has been around for 24 years in regulated states. It has the advantage of providing mor Oxygen in the combustion cycle, reducing un burned HC. It is also responsible for increasing the Octain rating of the fuel. It can and does clean residue from old fuel (leaded and traditional unleaded that contained high levels of additives to build Octaine. It can and has caused issues with fuel filters and the need to change them often at first. It can and has caused old marginal synthetic rubber components, to soften or fail. In my opinion Those components should be replaced periodically any way.
It is a farm product. It reduces polution in all equipment when cleaned and adjusted (minor) to allow it to be successfully used. It has a small penalty in BTUs, offset by Old Farm Tractors being able to use higher compression than when new.
Personally I have operated every vehicle I have owned since 1980 on it. with no loss of function, reliability, or grief. I replaced the fuel filter in my 51 GMC PU once when filling it for the first time in Arizona. No issues at all.
Spark plugs last 100K Miles. oil is cleaner when changed, pistons and combustion chambers are very clean and deposit free when removed. No valve or seats distruction has taken place on any of our family's vehicles from F20s to New cars, including High Output Chainsaw 2 strokes, and outboard engines. (2 and 4 stroke). It is just not an issue at all. Jim
 
Lucas has come out with a additive to slow down the corrosive action of E-85. The ethanol companies have put out literature on what damages can happen when using E-85.
 
It's very simple, John.

It ethanol made economic sense we taxpayers would not need to subsidize it.

Alternatively, we could simply remove the tariff on Brazilian ethanol made from sugar cane and import all we wanted for much less than we can produce it here from corn.

It's yet another nonsensical greenie feel-good waste of taxpayer dollars.

Dean
 
Since corn has gone up the Farmers have received 8 billion less in subsides per year at a cost of 6 billion for ethanol subsides.

The subsides are slated to end 1/1/2012 unless congress changes the present law. Ethanol will still survive without the subsides just like it did in the 70's, 80's and 90's.

I hope they do not renew the subsides and let ethanol stand on it's own and it will.

Ethanol was used from the early 70's until 2004 with no subsides.

If you want to use imported oil instead of home grown ethanol you should be allowed to. That's the way it is here in the midwest.

Talk to your local gas station and tell them to put in more pumps. They have to sell ethanol but they can also sell regular unleaded if they had enough tanks and pumps.

We also export ethanol to Brazil and they export to us.

Gary
 
Or you could simply pour in a can of generic Dry Gas during the coldest periods like we all did for decades.

Dean
 
"...it is here to stay." Don't bet on it.

Big oil companies are NOT tax subsidized.

Dean
 
"Spark plugs last 100K Miles. [O]il is cleaner when changed, pistons and combustion chambers are very clean and deposit free when removed."

These benefits have nothing to do with ethanol.

Dean
 
Here we Go AGAIN , search ethanol in archives for more info , , I use e-85 in my 50 yr old CASE gassser tractors in summer , and e 50+blend in winter , with a few ounces of seafoam , i will run e-50 in my other more modern gasser vehicles , Do not use ethanol in Small 2 cycle motors!,, The Vapor from ethanol does not always vent into exhaust and in some 2 cycle motors can gum up bearings and cause them to lock up.. I Use 93 octane in all 2 cycles,add couple tablespoons of Sea foam to a gallon of 2 cycle gas ,,
 
With respect. I have turned engines inside out since about 7 years old on a Maytag washing machine powering my bicycle. I have seen the changes and noted the fuel types as engines got cleaner and it coinsided with those changes from leaded to unleaded, to ETBE Ethyl Tertiary Butyl Ether A mistake), Methanol (a mistake) and Ethanol. I have been there. I do not have a faith based attitude toward fuel. Jim
 
Gary you seem to be up on this stuff. I seem to recall reading that the subsides that the goverment paid out to support ethanol all went to the big oil companys. I guess kind of like a charge to blend the ethanol with the gas. If I am wrong please set me stright. Thank You.
Bob
 
Gary
We have 7 refineries within about 60 miles of me that have on site gas loading racks and 2 other refineries that feed the pipe line only.
Of the 7 places that tankers can load gas only 1 of them offers 100% gas. This means if you do not have accounts at this rack you can not get 100% gas. This rack only supplies no brand gas so all the branded stations are forced to sell ethanol in my area.

I am all for using local products. I say drill baby drill. Just do not force me to use something that by this News Report put out by the U.S. Dept of Energy will damage my new from the factory engine severally enough that it will not even make it threw the test 2 out of 3 times.
 
i wish i could remember names and dates.
Henry Ford yes that one when he was building either the model T or A it was his desire to fuel them with ethanol.
the man that was president at that time had a person in his cabinet that was in pocket of big oil. can you guess where this is going?
that cabinet member convinced the president that ethanol was a bad idea. so ethanol was killed at the goverment top levels.
Ford being a farm boy liked the ethanol idea as it was a way to put more money in the farmers pocket and sell more tractors for himself.
i bet you will never read this in any history book.
 
So how can you explain that brand new motors that came direct from the manufacture could not even make it long enough to finish the test. This happened to 2 out of 3 motors per the artical.

Remember I am talking about E15 in marine and other small motors and the fact that the government is thinking about increasing the presentage allowed.
 
IA GARY You are incorrect!!!! Ethanol has been subsidized since 1978. They just changed it to a blender tax credit rather than the excise tax exemption in 2004. The following is on the link posted below.

Ethanol has been produced for fuel in the United States for at least 26 years. The industry launch was initiated by a subsidy of 40 cents per gallon provided in the Energy Policy Act of 1978. Between 1978 and today, the ethanol subsidy has ranged between 40 and 60 cents per gallon. The history of subsidy changes is provided in Table 1." -Purdue University
History of Ethanol sudsidies
 
I posted before about ethanol. It is evil. It wouldn't be that bad if we didn't have the OBD systems with electric fuel pumps and the sensors. Current vehicles aren't that bad, but vehicles built between 1980 and 2005 are constantly going through fuel pumps. Marine engines and small engines are even more at peril from this politically driven nightmare. The big problem with small and marine engines is that they sit for prolonged time with the ethanol sitting in the tank aborbing moisture.
 
I"m thinking he is not from this world, but maybe the planet Uranus? can you say "depletion allowance"?
 
110,000 miles on my 95 Ford Taurus-changed plugs at 100,000, regular oil changes,same fuel filter it came with, no issues, burns E10 since new.

107,000 miles on my 94 Dakota-regular oil changes, same fuel filter it came with,new plugs at 100,000, burns E10 up to E30 since new, no issues.

84,000 miles on my 2000 Dakota-regular oil changes, same fuel filter it came with, burns E10 and E30 since new, no issues.

22,000 miles on my 99 Dakota-regular oil changes, same fuel filter it came with, burns E10 and E30 since new, sits in storage over winter with E10 in it and starts and runs like new when taken out of storage, no issues

Honda generator-E10 since new, regular oil changes, stored with E-10 for long periods, no issues.

Honda power washer-same as generator.

17 JD tractors with E10 in them for extended periods, no fuel lines replaced, no carb meltdowns, no water in sediment bowls.

No fuel lines replaced, no fuel pumps gone bad, no bad engines.

$5 billion subsidies paid to REFINERS to blend the ethanol.
 
MSD, I respect your disagreement on this issue, but, I do disagree. You know the same government that is behind us having to use the junk fuel of ethanol, won't let the US Coast Guard use it in those RBS boats, with the Honda outboards? For some reason, even after the engine warranty expires, the Coast Guard has to use ethanol free fuel. There are allowances for extreme emergancies, but every effort has to be made to not put ethanol in those boats. I was at Station Lake Charles when the message came over. Wonder why the Coast Guard isn't using such a wonderfull fuel?
 
The reason for the Coast Guard not using it is that ethanol draws moisture. Methanol does too. Matter of fact all alcohol does. It makes keeping marine engines running a nightmare.

As for MSD and others that think ethanol is the second coming of the great one. Let them use whatever they want but let me have the same choice. I don't like how it runs in my vehicles. Its shelf life is terrible. Those that say other wise make me a lot of money each spring when they go to get their gas equipment going and it is varnished up. So keep using it I need the work.

Also I don't see any of the ethanol huggers feeling any sympathy for the livestock producers that are taking it in the shorts because of high feed prices. Yeah the "by products" are supposed to even that out. Lets try $85 per ton wet gluten feed and $190 per ton 18% gluten pellets. Thats is really cheap, NOT!!!!

So when grain prices hit the bottom the next time I don't want to see any subsidies for the corn producers that are reaping huge profits right now. Let them sell their $10,000 per acre ground and sub-rent that $500 per acre rental ground they just had to have.
 
I never could figure the logic in paying for good gas and have to spend more money to make it do it"s job. ???????????
 
Every time the subject of ethanol comes up...not gasohol or methanol....cuz so many don"t know the difference..especially those out of the Corn Belt....interesting to see the ignorant, but especially mis-informed comments, and the confusion. For those of us in the Midwest who have used 10% for DECADES with NO problems, or who have purchased flex-fuel vehicles that are MADE for E85..........it is hard to understand the concern. Last week I filled our 2003 flex-fuel Dodge van with E85, which was 80 cents under gas,....we get 11% fewer mpg....do the math....with our 7 years experience of fuel records, how are we losing (not LOOSING) money? I figure we are money ahead with a 40 cent spread. 80 cents is more of a bonus. Regarding subsidies- the "blender credit" is paid to oil companies (that"s not a subsidy?) for blending eth into gasoline. MN had a 10-20 cent subsidy for small eth plants for a few years during their startup, limited to their plant size...something like 10-20 cents/gallon for a plant under maybe 20 million gal/yr? I look at it as an incentive for a new industry to get established..it takes time ..sort of like when your mother said, eat your vegetables, they are good for you!
But, by a stroke of his pen, our then Gov Pawlenty, wiped that out and brought it back under a reduced, delayed schedule.
 
Few topics get folks so worked up here as ethanol.

My opinion: Pull the subsidies and let it stand on its own. There is a role for ethanol fuel: it's really the only oxygenate additive available since MTBE was discontinued. (ETBE, another oxygenate additive, is derived from ethanol.) But it is debatable if it's really necessary to add oxygen to fuel; federal requirements to do so were dropped in 2006.

There is very little hard evidence that ethanol production will reduce our dependence on foreign oil. But it remains politically very popular, as the agribusiness lobby is quite powerful and holds influence with both political parties. It says a lot about Congress that they won't eliminate this particular barrel of pork.
 
Want to save 13 cents on your next 1 lb box of corn flakes? Get rid of the corn.
 
I am not in favor of any subsidies for corn or ethanol but I don't think there is proof that ethanol is increasing the price of corn.

My grandson has a mixing plant using the ethanol mash to feed thousands of cattle. His out put is limited to the fact that there is not a supply of mash in reserve. The mash is all being fed. If the mash is not there and the cattle bulk feeders are empty the cattle feeders buys corn at a higher cost. If there was no ethanol the feeders would be feeding all the corn that is used for ethanol as well as what corn they are now using when the mash supply is not there.
 
I bought a flex fuel truck.Not that i wanted it flex fuel but it just was. Then i find out that the insurance company wants more to insure it cuase it has a certain letter in the vin# meaning it is flex fuel. Everybody wants a cut. So even if i burn e85(i wont) it eats away at the savings.
 
Why is there little or no Congressional support for ethanol? Why hasn't one single presidential candidate so much as utter the word ethanol? Because ther is absolutly no support for it outside of the corn industry. Study after study has proven it to be an inferior fuel, except those studies funded by the Iowa Corn Promotion board. It's a band-aid solution at best.
 
Another view. My pickup is an 88 with 292,000 miles on it. My car is an 89 with 117, 000 miles. My tractors (5) are 41 to 63. All these machines run fine. That's why I buy gas at Co-Op which only sells pure gas. Wonder why.
 
VALERO the largest refinery in North America owns several plants and is thinking of more as the demand increases. Now the by-products are being exported and also fed here. Jobs,taxes and many other things are provided by its use. Think about cleaner air less money spent abroad and the list goes on and a few boats dont run on it neither does a steam engine get real. Its here to stay or would you sooner drive a plastic car with a lawnmower engine.
 
Ethanol is corn belt politicl pork, period. There is no free market economic reason for an ethanol plant to exist if not for the good old American taxpayer. It may or may not go away in the next few years depending on whether we suffer another economic collapse which finally brings forth a conservative movement to replace the government in the next election. Barring a major calamity nothing will be done about any of the waste, it will be business as usual.
 
Actually this year Brazil is importing US enthanol b/c of shortages there; China is importing corn b/c of shortages there creating the high corn prices....
 
> This is a real sticking point for me because I believe every industry should stand on its own.

Why is ethanol the _only_ industry that is ever supposed to be held to that standard?????

I don't understand. The govt subsidises every new and most old industries out there, but ethanol is the only one that gets any grief for it.

If you cut all the subsidies to everyone else, I'm all for a pure ecconomy with no govt assistance. But why do you pick on _only_ ethanol?

Which is having it's subsidy ended in less than 2 months so jeez you got your wish.

What other industry in the USA is getting cuts in their subsidies???????

Sheez.

I don't think building a corn ethanol plant in La would be very wise - doesn't make sense _there_. If they get switchgrass to ever work out, that crop will make higher sugars in the south, that would make some sense in your area. Just like corn makes a whole lot of sense to use here in the upper midwest - corn is cheap, plentiful, easy to grow, the DDG makes great feed for our livestock, and we don't have to ship in as much petro fuels when we can make it right here from surplus cheap corn.

Ethanol is a good product, most engines if tuned properly hit their 'sweet spot' of efficiency with about 15-25% ethanol blend, can use a lower cheaper grade of gasoline to blend with the ethanol, and the more stable ethanol gives a smoother controlled flash point that burns better in the engine - all together saves a lot of crude oil or we'd all be paying a lot more for our fuels.

Ain't nothing 100% good for everyone everywhere ethanol has it's issues and problems too. Perhaps you work in an oil field down there and like the lingering ecological effects of MTBE and don't care about others? Seems like you are quoting the political dogma of the oil companies, which live pretty high off the hog on their govt subsidies...... Can we cut them too, or is this a one way street you want to protect the oil companies?

--->Paul
 
Paul, You don't know what you are talking about, oil companies are not subsidized by the taxpayers, as a matter of fact, many tax deductions and credits available to all other industries in the USA are not available to oil companies.
 
Paul, most people don't know what they're talking about when it comes to ethanol, what it does, and how it effects engines. You can't talk sense to them. Science and real facts have no bearing.

Ethanol is the modern day boogeyman. Any engine-related problem is blamed on ethanol.

Threw a rod? Couldn't be because there isn't a drop of oil in the crankcase, could it? NAW, it's gotta be the ETHANOL in the fuel!!!

Anecdotal evidence weighs heavy with this crowd. Here's my experiences:

I have a Super H with FIVE YEAR OLD ethanol fuel in it. Starts right up and runs fine. No Stay-Bill or anything else in it. Still smells like gas even.

Last fall I helped a neighbor cut up a large tree that had fallen down in his yard. The gas I used in my 1975 Mcculloch chainsaw was E10, and had been sitting on the shelf for at least a year. Saw ran as well as it ever has.

I have three other tractors, two trucks, a weedwacker, six other chainsaws, a pressure washer, snowblower, a push mower, and two generators. All have E10 fuel and all sit around for months between startups with no Sta-bil, mostly because I forget. They all start right up when I need them, no problems.
 
Again, such benefits are NOT due to the addition of ethanol but rather the removal of tetraethyl lead. Ethanol is NOT necessary to remove the lead.

Dean
 
Dick L that wonderful wet mesh is 65% moisture content, 7% protein, heavy on the sulfur. You have to really watch feeding too much or you get "brainer cattle" that walk in a circle back wards and then 80% die.

Lets look at it on a dry matter basis:

Wet corn gluten mesh
2000 lbs x 35% dry matter(65% moisture)= 700 lbs of dry matter
700 lbs x 7%= 49 lbs of true protein per ton

Dry Corn
2000 lbs (35.71 bu.) x 85% dry matter(15% moisture)=1700 lbs of dry matter
1700 lbs x 8.5%= 144.5 lbs of protein.

So it takes three ton of the Wet feed to equal one ton of corn. IF you do it on an energy basis it is even worse. It takes 4.2 ton of wet feed to equal one ton of corn.

Right now since cash corn is under $6 the economics don't work right at the moment but guys will not change their rations for a while.

A ton of corn is 35.71 bu. x 6= $210.69

A ton of wet gluten is $85.00

So it would cost $250.66 to equal a ton of corn in feed matter.

When the wet gluten was under $20 per ton it was cheaper but it had risen in cost here due to Cargil buying it up to mix into a sweet bran they are shipping south to Texas in coal cars. It caused a real shortage this last month around here. This really hit the guys hard that counted on it to feed. Many of them had not put any silage up so they where scrambling to find other feed stuffs. It also had followed corn prices up last year too.

I have feed it before but my cattle are sold on a grade and yield system. When they where finished on the wet gluten feed they had a lower premium when slaughtered. I stopped feeding it four years ago.
 
The depletion allowance is NOT a taxpayer subsidy apart from tax deductions available to ALL businesses.

Rather, it is simply an accounting term used for depreciation of a wasting asset. All businesses can depreciate wasting assets.

Do your research. I recommend starting with accounting 101.

Dean
 

Nothing new about government subsdies of favored industries. Before the Revolutionary war, a youd girl, Eliza Lucas, figured out a way to grow and process Indigo on her father's plantation in SC. Indigo makes a blue dye and England wanted to encourage it for their textile industry. After the Revolutionary War the Indigo subsdiy was dropped and Indigo growing was no longer profitable.

I check my gas milage regularly. I get about 1 mile per gallon less on gas with ethanol.

My understanding is that ethanol can be made better with sugar cane, which can be grown in LA, FL, and HA. Don't know why there isn't a push to use sugar cane. They haven't figured out how to use Switch grass yet, but it get a lot of attention.

KEH
 
Guess I did miss where the subsides were here before the latest blenders credit they are using now. But those subsides were small in comparison to the subsides the farmers were getting cause of cheap corn.

JD no one is twisting your arm to buy more feeder calves to finish out to loose money.

If cattle aren't making money don't buy them. The price of cattle has gone up and will continue to do so with high corn. The reason being that guys like me that have no permanent pasture, sold our cows to grow more corn. With corn headed to $4.00 or less with one good crop nation wide,you cattle guys will be reaping the dollars. Takes a few years to rebuild a cow herd to get those numbers back up. In the mean time cow guys will do good.

Now lets look at the other side of your business, selling machinery. Can you keep up selling? Where is all the money coming from to buy the machinery?

Maybe in your neck of the woods the machinery is not moving like here because you have more livestock in your area. I don't know. But down here in SE Iowa the dealerships cannot write the orders fast enough.

Not trying to be a smart a$$ just having an open discussion here.

Gary
 
(quoted from post at 21:02:31 11/28/11) Lucas has come out with a additive to slow down the corrosive action of E-85. The ethanol companies have put out literature on what damages can happen when using E-85.
Click to expand...

Lucas has developed a bunch of products that do nothing more than take money out of your pocket and put it in theirs.
 
There are those of us who are well read in this subject and have the proper background to understand the issues.

It is so extraordinarily simple. Remove the direct subsidies and watch what happens.

Anecdotal evidence is not persuasive.

Dean
 
Kieth the main reason for not using sugar cane for ethanol in the states is shelf life.

When sugar cane is ready for harvest they have about one week to process it into ethanol or else it goes bad.

So if all the cane is ready to harvest in one month here in the states then the plants will set empty the rest of the year.

I understand that in Brazil they can spread out the growing season because of their local.

That is why sometimes Brazil buys ethanol from the US. They just bought (50 million gallons, I think) from the US last week. They run a little short certain times of the year.

Gary
 
That is both a funny & sad comment. Oh boy.

The oil industry started in the early 1900's, and was much, much, much more subsidied and supported with govt help than ethanol ever will be. Many of those big oil tax breaks and subsidies continue to this day. Ethanol is a new technology, and as with any such, cannot compete with the well entrenched and subsidised and aided older energy supplies. You can't start a new infrastructure and compete with a well established and govt subsidised one - what a foolish thought.

Compare apples to apples, and big oil has had way more govt assistance, and continues to have such, than ethanol ever will.

Just this year Congress voted to save the $12 billion (a drop in your govt subsidy bucket) that were supposed to be cut from Big Oil subsidies, while at the same time voting to cut the Ethanol blenders credit. You Big Oil guys got it on easy street, got it so fat & easy. You been getting govt help for so long you don't even know what you are getting!

Once again, ag takes it on the chin, while Big Oil gets the govt gravy.

Myself, I'd prefer all businesses make it or fail on their own, but govt doesn't operate that way, they pick & choose and throw money around. And wwhen they do, it's unfair to support one subsidy but not the other. As I said, I'm all for eliminating any help ethanol gets, as long as we eliminate all the help Big Oil gets, and elminate the 33% help Big Wind gets, and elminate the help coal & hydro and natural gas get......

The govt subsidies everything, especially Big Oil, pretty hard to say otherwise with a straight face!

So long as they do, all the other energy technologies need to recieve a roughly equal subsidy to get established and to compete in the real world.

I too wish govt would go back to police, fire, infrastructure building, regulate fair business practices, and otherwise let the marketplace take it's own course. But - that ain't how it is. Big Oil gets their big pice of the govt pie, the other energy sources need to get something too.

--->Paul
 
Dean we may get to see what happens very shortly.

The subside is slated to end in January 2012.

What will happen? the price of corn will drop and it will be business as usual for the ethanol companies.

The oil companies the receive the blenders credit will back down a few cents on what they will pay for ethanol and life and ethanol will move on.

Just my view.

Gary
 
We were worried that Brazil would flood the USA with ethanol once it got going in the USA. Everyone thought sugar cane was such a better efficiency of making fuel.....

Funny how it turns out - this year Brazil is using about 20% of our entire USA supply of corn ethanol, importing it to their country. Sugar is more valuable as sugar from their limited cane supply, so they import our corn ethanol for fuel.

In Florida the biggest cane setup there has sold out to the USA govt - the govt bought their land for wildlife habitat, and so is 'subsidising' the sugar industry in the SE USA to move itself into South America - look it up on the internet, folks never pay attention, but we are using govt subsides to not grow cane, to export jobs and production to other countries over the next few years.... Florida is all excited about it because of all the high dollar construction jobs created to return the cane fields to 'natural' wildlife areas - not seeing the big picture that those are short term jobs, with long-term industry leaving their state. Kinda sad.

More sugar will be produced in my state I guess - sugar beets and corn, as time moves forward. Sugar cane is being abandoned in the USA. Hawaii is abandonig it also in favor of hotels and development.

--->Paul
 
Agreed.

Brazil, being an equatorial country can grow three crops of sugar cane per year. In such situations ethanol as an engine fuel MAY make some sense but the jury is still out.

It will be interesting to see what happens when Brazils new (astonishingly, partially US taxpayer funded) deep water oil fields come on line.

Dean
 
As far as I know.

If not, it is obviously due to the government forcing ethanol down the throats of all consumers whether they want it or otherwise.

Dean
 
Oh no another Ethonal fight.

Seems kinda funny to me that most people who argue in favor of it have a green agenda or are profiting from it (farmers). Now if we could just get the local Ethonal plant to make a profit...........

Braazil import something from us at a higher price than they can produce it??? Good one! Now thats funny! You were joking right????

Rick
 
I keep hearing about these subsidies but no one seems to know what they are. Subsidies paid to corn farmers actually increase the price of corn - hardly a subsidy to the people that buy corn.
 
(quoted from post at 22:27:57 11/28/11) 110,000 miles on my 95 Ford Taurus-changed plugs at 100,000, regular oil changes,same fuel filter it came with, no issues, burns E10 since new.

107,000 miles on my 94 Dakota-regular oil changes, same fuel filter it came with,new plugs at 100,000, burns E10 up to E30 since new, no issues.

84,000 miles on my 2000 Dakota-regular oil changes, same fuel filter it came with, burns E10 and E30 since new, no issues.

22,000 miles on my 99 Dakota-regular oil changes, same fuel filter it came with, burns E10 and E30 since new, sits in storage over winter with E10 in it and starts and runs like new when taken out of storage, no issues

Honda generator-E10 since new, regular oil changes, stored with E-10 for long periods, no issues.

Honda power washer-same as generator.

17 JD tractors with E10 in them for extended periods, no fuel lines replaced, no carb meltdowns, no water in sediment bowls.

No fuel lines replaced, no fuel pumps gone bad, no bad engines.

$5 billion subsidies paid to REFINERS to blend the ethanol.
Click to expand...

BINGO!! Right there IS THE TRUTH!!! Unfortunately a good number of the folks who have voiced their opinions in this thread refuse to believe the truth.
 
seafoam is used only in 2 cycle gas ,, since all fuel has at least e-10,.. paul you are right ,,, i dont have the e nergy to argue with some of these folx , ,, BUT I KNOW WHAT WORX on my farm
 
Ok,,,I may be going out on a limb here but I'm gonna gess that your not a real big fan of the ethanol program,,,LOL,,,But hey,,That ok to.
 
Surely you cannot be arguing that the use of ethanol for motor fuel is not driving up the cost of corn?

Dean
 
Oil does not receive government subsidies, this is a fact, what is reported in the socialist media as subsidies are simply tax deductions and or tax credits for doing thins the federal government wants done. As far as tax deductions go, the ethanol industry has received 55 times the dollar amount of tax breaks that oil and natural gas get when you break it down per energy unit, the energy produced by the two industries is not in any way comparable. Yes, oil companies get tax deductions for doing business, the same as all industries, the only way to end that is change the tax code.
 
We went to Kauii and it rained most of the time- so we spent quite a bit of time on the "dry end" of the island. Vast areas that used to be sugar cane, now just idle. Sure seems like they would be re-establishing the crop, if for no other reason than to bring down the price of fuel on the islands.
 
You have no argument here just amazes me when harmful gas was sold for 24¢ a gallon would last all year in a machine and start on command with hardly any carburetor problems .. now we pay over $3.50 and still have to pay extra for extra products to make it work ????
 
(quoted from post at 11:06:46 11/29/11) You have no argument here just amazes me when harmful gas was sold for 24¢ a gallon would last all year in a machine and start on command with hardly any carburetor problems .. now we pay over $3.50 and still have to pay extra for extra products to make it work ????
Click to expand...

And on the same note, even with all the modern electronics technology incorporated into todays cars, the miles per gallon has not improved one little bit over what we got when a gallon of gas cost just 24 cents.
 
Brazil has been importing at least since last spring and maybe longer. They are making more on sugar from cane than ethanol. So they are buying ethanol from us. As I said it was just announced yesterday on the radio that they bought 50 millon gals. last week.
Read about it here.
 
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