liability/doing the right thing...update

from before::
sold my little tractor a couple weeks ago. Buyer test drove/checked everything out, I explained everything, all work /maintenance done, but told him he was buying a 47 year old machine and anything could happen. Few days ago, get a call that the tractor is shot and the headgasket is the problem. Will cost 2k to fix it. Called them back and asked what happened. Coolant empty, oil level overfull. Asked for grey foam and there was none. Said they only used the tractor once for ten minutes or so. Said OK, email me exactly what the problem is, who diagnosed it, and the hours off the meter. Haven't heard from them. Don't want to put it to anyone, but where would you draw the line? They signed a BOS that stated as inspected and no gaurantee. Tried to contact them again because a headgasket replacenent is 200 bucks max but they don't answer.



FF to today...
Get an email that they had it to a shop and the HG is fine but it needs new pistons, rings, cylinders, and the rubber orings at the bottom of the sleeves......... cost of 3000 euro.........

Parts they are talking about plus needed gaskets including a headgasket is 400 euro (450 max)... Sounds like the shop is really proud of their work or maybe the know the folks and don't wanna do the work for them...
Anyway, they asked me if I knew someone that could do the work needed....

Thinking it is a good time to cut ties with them because I can't see that they were honest with me to begin with (all these problems coming out of 10 minutes of operation)..... The kid that I got the other tractor from could do it in short order, but doubting their honesty, can't bring myself to get him involved with them and have a feeling I'd always be in the middle....

Anyway,
this is a 3 cyl diesel..... any idea what could cause the damage they say in such a short time??? It sicks not being able to trust folks.I'd really like to help them out but don't wanna get stuck in the middle of something....

They only ran it ten minutes or so. (Yea right). They bought the tractor knowing it was old. They drove it liked it and signed the papers. The problem is now theirs.

Unless they ran it out of oil. Nothing I know will do that much damage in ten minutes or so. Also what does or so mean. One hour,two hours all day.

Sounds like they screwed up and want you to pay for it. To me it is a scam.

Tell em you will fix it for 3000 euro and then get the kid to fix it and split the profits.

Actually I think they are scamming you, cut all ties.

The only way I know that damage could have occured in a short time is if they drained the oil out of it and drove it empty. I have a tractor that needed that type of work but it came on slowly over more than a year. The compression finally got so low on one cylinder that it wouldn't start.

Even if the tractor you sold them was very low on oil, it was up to them to service it correctly before using it. I think I would tell them the tractor is now their problem.

It's called an overhaul. Most tractors will get at least one sometime during their life. Many will get multiple. They are needed after many hours of use wear out the sleeves, pistons, rings, bearings, etc... Whether or not this tractor was sold with the previous owner knowing it was using oil, low on power, hard starting, etc... and wanted to get rid of it before he had to spend the money, or if it just was unlucky timing for the buying party as to when the problem came to a head cannot be determined over posts on a forum. All in all, it's up to the buyer to check it out, and make a decision when purchasing used equipment, unless it was sold with an expressed warranty. No warranty, as is, means just that.
David

Tell them I have a 3 cyl Detriot I'll sell them reasonable if they pay shipping ... LOL

if they wanted a warrenty they should have bought a new one. tell them to go pack sand

If the engine had an o-ring break on a cylinder and dump the coolant into the oil, that could happen in an instant. I have a JD 2440 and when it had 3,000 hours I checked fluids, started it and drove a mile to get an auger and when I came back there was too much blow-by and the oil was grey foam. $6,000 later I had a rebuilt engine! Time is an enemy of those o-rings and hours don't always matter.

If I had sold it right before it failed, the new owner would have had the bill for $6,000. Luck of the draw when dealing with used equipment. They bought an old and used tractor and need to learn that lesson and you gave no warranty and your price reflected that.

I still have my 2440, have spent way too much on repairs that should not have been needed on a gently used low hour tractor, but I need one and have to pay up one way or the other.

I think if they waited long enough the oil will put the water back to the bottom of the pan and it will look good on the stick, but there should be foamy goo somewhere.

I would have to say you have done more than your part to try and make things rite. If they had bought it and it did that as they were loading it or rite after they got home then I would feel like I should give them there money back. But who really knows what they did or how they treated it after a few days or weeks. sold a kid a truck one time and two wekks later he called said I sold him a p.o.s and that the motor had locked up and the main bearings were spun and he wanted his money back. I told him noway that I had just rebuilt it a year ago. So I did a little askin around and found out he had takin it out runnin the snot outa it and burryin it in the mud adn the day before he called he had filled the engine with water when he burried it deep in a mud hole. You just never know what they actually did with so many dishonest people in this world. Cut the ties youve done your part. You knew it was good when you sold it so id leave it at that.

We traded a Ford 960 with very weak tranny and good engine to dealer for a different tractor.

Year later the dealer mentioned, he sold the 960 to someone and they came back said the engine was shot.

We said no, engine was good, better than the 960 we kept. Dealer wasn't coming back to us, just making conversation....

Kinda strongly turned out it looked like the new owners left it sit out without capping the exaust, and wrecked the engine themselves with putting only an hour or 2 on the engine.....

--->Paul

You got any thing els for sale,,,,,You sound like a good guy to buy from,,,,,You know,,,Nice and easy,,,,,LOL
Or how about Daughters,,,,Got any daughters,,,

(quoted from post at 09:37:20 11/27/11) Nice and easy,,,,,LOL
Or how about Daughters,,,,Got any daughters,,,

Click to expand...

No... But if I did, and a punk came around with an attitude like that, I'd beat him so bad that he'd turn queer and never look at another girl....he may come lookin for your boys then...


got anything to sell????

Whooh....ok

It's funny when ever someone is looking to buy an
older crawler tractor, the best advice is to have
someone knowledgeable check the machine out for
you, even if you have to pay them. When you buy a
used car they always recommend having an
inspection done by a 3rd party. I don't see how
buying an older tractor or any other equipment is
any different. Actually it's not any different
when you're buying a house or property. The buyers
have to do their due diligence. You weren't
forcing them to buy your old tractor.

Dave you will find that many buyers are just as crooked as the so called equipment jockeys. They want you to pay for them to get a new motor overhaul.

I sold a JD 2020 diesel five years ago. I gave them a 50/50 power train warranty , IF the work was done by me, good for 100 hours or 180 days. The buyer came back to me One year later complaining that the tractor had dumped the water in the engine oil. I said fine bring it out to me and I will look at it and will treat you fine. They said no way as I was a crook selling bad tractors. What the ???? I asked where they had heard that. They told me that their good friend that had the tractor at his shop told them that. He told them it needed new pistons, sleeves, bearings and the crank shaft ground. What!!!! This tractor was over hauled 150 hours before I sold it to them. So I went over to the "friend" and jumped him about bad mouthing me. He showed me the motor he had completely took apart and had it scattered all over his shop. The sleeves still had the cross hatch in them. The bearings did not even have a scratch in them. What had caused the problem was a sleeve o-ring had failed. I asked him why he was telling them that it need all new parts when at the worst you where talking rings, bearings, and a overhaul gasket set? He point blank told me that he wanted to buy the tractor from them so he had ran the bill up so they would not fix it. REAL NICE FRIEND!!!

So how did I handle it??? I call the couple up and arranged a meeting with them at their home. I took the County sheriff with me as a witness. I had taped the "friend" on a little dictation recorder. I played the tape for them. They still did not want to believe me.

I gave them two choices of what I would do:

1)I would repair it for just the parts cost, no labor charge. The parts where less than $400 dollars.

2) I would buy the tractor back for what they gave me for it less $20 for each hour of use. Plus $75 dollars an hour for the time it would take me to get it out of the friend's garage. Since he had demolished the tractor for no good reason. All that he should have done was dropped the pan and removed the cylinder head. There was no reason to completely disassemble the engine.


They refused both still saying I was trying to cheat them. What a pair of idiots. So I said they would be hearing from my lawyer. Why they ask? I told them they where defaming me with their accusations. I did what I promised. My lawyer sent them and the friend a real nice letter explaining what would happen if they still defamed me.

The main reasons being was that the tractor was out of the warranty for three different causes.
1) It was well over the 180 days. 13 months by now.
2) They had not even given me a chance to find the problem and correct it myself. My warranty clearly stated the repairs have to be done by me or someone I approved. Not some" friend".
3) They had used the tractor for 160 hours. Again much more than the 100 hours stated in the warranty.

They did take it to small claims court. I took a copy of the purchase order and the judge did not even take five minutes to rule in my favor.

The tractor??? I got to buy it back when the "friend" got a divorce. His wife was real glad to sell it to me as it was still in pieces. The "friend" never could get it back together.

Moral of the story. Many buyers are LIARS. They will buy an old tractor cheap. Then try to get it made new by the seller even when they knew it was well used when they bought it.

I don't think I would do a thing for them as far as money back, or money out of your pocket. See what the kid will do it for. Tell him to put a bunch of profit in it for himself and give you a price. Give the new owners a price 300 bigger and see if they take it. All walk away happy. Of course if they just seem like outright dishonest people, just walk away.

You sold it 'as is' thats what it means.The 10 minute thing is BS.Like a fellow I knew that used to own a parts yard and he would sell some whole tractors he'd tell people you drive it around as much as you want, check it out etc etc etc but when you pay for it its your tractor and NO guarantee.

I don't know what to think..... Wife's company has an attorney on the payroll that is available to employees within reason. She's gonna take our copy of the contract and give him a heads up just in case they get stupid..... They didn't seem like bad folks when they were looking and picking up the tractor.... Something told me to put the hours reading of the day they looked at it on the BOS and have them verify they were the same at pickup.
Guess I'll just cut the cord and let them go.....

Anything else will be sold via ebay................

I wouldnt do anything honestly. Buyers can be as big of crooks as sellers.

All tractors and equipment i sell on the bottom of the bill of sale I have the statement "The item on this bill of sale was sold in "AS-IS" condition with no warranty expressed or implied what so ever" followed by the buyers signature.

In 1995 I sold a tractor to a guy in the next county. Along with the bill of sale with above statement, he was given the manual and all service records of everything that was ever done to the tractor for the 12 years I owned it. In 1998 3 years later I recieved noticed that I was being sued.

Went to court, guys attorney went through how I committed fraud in that I failed to inform his client that tractor would only last another 200 hours of use and because of this I should be responsible for an engine rebuild. (Yes thats what he said). I pulled out bill of sale with statement and guys signature. Judge asked to see it, he got it, asked guy if he signed this, guy says yes but.... Judge cut him off saying it was sold in "AS-IS" condition in which he knew up front as indicated by his signature and dismissed the case.

Long story short, guy let his neighbor use tractor to push snow, neighbor loaded the engine down with either to get it started which caused the engine to go bye-bye.

You are not a mechanic and have not passed yourself off as one. You are not an expert as to the actual condition of the tractor. You were honest the the buyers about all you knew about the tractor and how it had performed for you.

I would talk to the guy you had doing the work for you on this tractor and explain the whole situation to him. If after hearing all the facts he is willing to get involved I would pass his name on to the buyers. Other than that I do not think I would have any more to do with the situation.

Having the lawyer look at the BOS is a good idea and make sure that you have no obligation to the buyer. If it was sold 'as is', then I would not expect that you would.
As far as the tractor goes... I somewhat remember reading through the rebuild chronicles from a year or two ago and thinking at that time that this day WOULD come based on what you had done to it...
Wether or not the thing is bad or they're just scamming you... who knows... but I wouldn't be surprised if it was bad. Just sayin'

Sometimes too... $hit just happens and it wasn't their day....
BT/DT too.

Rod

Actually all sales are considered as is/where is unless there is a written copy of a warranty that both parties have agreed to. Words mean nothing unless it's in writing.

You have a signed bill of sale. It states "as-is",
and like the other fellows have stated, it sounds
like you have gone WAY beyond being fair; bad luck
hits randomly. But don"t make it YOUR bad luck!!

Cut the cord, burn the bridge. They don"t sound real
honest, being untimely in their responses as you
have stated. Protect yourself!

Don't be a sucker, walk away. you are being used.