power inverters??

Anonymous-0 · Nov 13, 2011

Anyone use them??? Getting ready for winter and filling remote water tanks and want to streamline a little. Last year's brainstorm (generator and a sump pump) works real good but is kinda awkward. Don't want to give up the speed/volume of the pump but would like to skip the generator. Battery on the tractor is strong enough and the charging system (alternator) is good. An inverter should be safe enough (to the charging system) shouldn't it?

Thanks, Dave

Geoff NY · Nov 13, 2011

Why not skip over the middle man and get a pto driven pump?

Anonymous-0 · Nov 13, 2011

(quoted from post at 05:23:39 11/13/11) Why not skip over the middle man and get a pto driven pump?

don't want to get off the bucks.... 70 bucks for an inverter that I can get a whole bunch of use from vs 300 for a PTO pump with one use a couple months out of the year..... Still watching ebay for a good priced used one tho.....

omahagreg · Nov 13, 2011

Depends on how much power you need to run the pump. Inverters are VERY inefficient. If you need more then electric razor amperage, you probably don't have enough battery to run it! Plus, the more they put out, the more they cost!

LJD · Nov 13, 2011

I've got and use over 20 of them ranging from 750 watts up to 10,000 watts. Mod-wave and sine-wave.

My entire house, shop and barn run off of inverters and I do lots of electric welding.
So, don't believe silly stories about how they don't make good power.

The inverter MUST get the power it needs from whatever battery you use. The alternator gets used for recharging the battery when that inverter is NOT in use. For high draw, DC voltage drop to the inverter is usually the biggest issue. During a surge, if incoming DC drops to 10.5 even for second, some models will automatically shut down.

Plenty of rugged 2000 watt (4000 watt surge) mod-wave inverters around for $130-$150.

A so-called "true" sine-wave inverter will be more pricey and be more inefficient. But for some electronics, you need the sine-wave. Especially for most battery chargers and microwave ovens.

LJD · Nov 13, 2011

The 2000 watt inverter that Harbor Freight sells for $129 when on sale is very rugged. I built an entire house using one of a couple of RV batteries.
2000 watt continuous and 4000 watt surge.

Again, don't believe silly claims to the negative.

Many cheap mod-wave inverters are 95% efficient.

Anonymous-0 · Nov 13, 2011

(quoted from post at 06:44:50 11/13/11) I've got and use over 20 of them ranging from 750 watts up to 10,000 watts. Mod-wave and sine-wave.

My entire house, shop and barn run off of inverters and I do lots of electric welding.
So, don't believe silly stories about how they don't make good power.

The inverter MUST get the power it needs from whatever battery you use. The alternator gets used for recharging the battery when that inverter is NOT in use. For high draw, DC voltage drop to the inverter is usually the biggest issue. During a surge, if incoming DC drops to 10.5 even for second, some models will automatically shut down.

Plenty of rugged 2000 watt (4000 watt surge) mod-wave inverters around for $130-$150.

A so-called "true" sine-wave inverter will be more pricey and be more inefficient. But for some electronics, you need the sine-wave. Especially for most battery chargers and microwave ovens.

Max watts on the sump pump is 400... so a 1000 watt inverter should cover me? Anything heavier, I have a generator to cover if needed. Just want something to use on the tractor to transfer water. Decent 12 volt pump costs as much or more than an inverter and the sump pump pumps almost 10 times the volume. Max run time would be 15 minutes with normal only a couple minutes.

Dave

LJD · Nov 13, 2011

Standard "rule of thumb" is to use twice the max draw rating. I suggest go three times unless you've tested and know for sure what the pump draws when cold at first start. It's that first split-second spike that can drop battery voltage below 10.5 and trip the inverter safety-breaker.

Problem is - many inverters are sold with bogus specs and don't do near what they claim.

I can't speak for every one out there. I can tell you a few that DO work as advertised.

If you buy from a place that specializes in inverters, they are apt to not sell what does not work. The AIMs 1250 full time and 3500 watt surge for $99 is probably all you need.

http://www.theinverterstore.com/the-inverter-store-category.php?cat=MSW

The Harbor Freight 2000 watt unit.
The AIMS 1500 watt unit.
The AIMS 1000 watt unit.
The AIMS 1250 watt unit.

A while back I got a "good deal" on several new 5000 watt Black & Decker inverters (rated for 10,000 watt surge). None could even run a small RV sized refrigerator. So, I got an AIMs 1500 watt and it's worked flawlessly.

I've also found that Vector brand also rarely perform as advertised.

Tony in Mass. · Nov 13, 2011

Got us thru the halloween blizzard. A wallyworld 1000 watt, old, Y2K strategic reserve- plugged into a 3.3L '94 dodge caravan cigarette lighter. Powered the steam boiler, cell phone chargers, hotplate, fridge and small space heater- not all at the same timea, rotated around, furnace till boiling good and house HOT, fridge till cold and turned itself off on its own, etc etc. The van burned about a pint and a half an hour. Or less than a third of my 4000 watt 5hp that had no choice but to go full bore under load or not. No more gas gens for me, not if these inverters keep improving and doing the job with ounces insted of gallons.....

Maxx · Nov 13, 2011

LJD · Nov 13, 2011

A 1000 watt inverter would draw 80 amps at 12 volts DC when being used at full capacity and close to 200 amps when under surge.

I have never heard of any car or truck with an 80 amp cigarette lighter or power port. My Grand Caravan has 20 amp ports. The male plug itself could not even handle that kind of current.

I've also never heard of any company selling a 1000 watt inverter with a cigarette lighter plug. Any inverter I've seen that large requires hard-wiring or big jumper cables.

Do you have some sort of custom made power port?

Tony in Mass. · Nov 13, 2011

Whatever eh? I is not in my lap to read numbers, or recite technical data. All I know is the F@#$%^& thing did the job.
I will bring it in at lunch, all enlighten the www with all the finer details.
Dave wanted to know if inverters work, and mine does its job, that's all.

JDseller · Nov 13, 2011

I have a Cobra 3000 watt inverter in my service truck. I got it used out of an old scraped semi truck. I gave ten bucks for it. I have two deep cycle marine batteries hard wired on the truck to make jump starting things easy. I just added the inverter. I did wire it with 4 gauge wire to the batteries. I rarely have to use my gas generator since I put the inverter on the truck. It is nice to be able to use a hand held grinder without a gas engine running wide open. Had it for four years now.

Friend has a horse shoeing business. HE was always complaining about having trouble finding electric to run his equipment at some of the horse barns he goes to. I wired one like this in his truck and he loves it. He can run his forge and a grinder/polisher with out having to hunt a plug 110 plug.

I have attached a link to one on Ebay that is the same model as mine. it is 1500 watt continuous and 3000 watt surge. It is $129 plus frieght.
COBRA 3000 WATT DC TO AC POWER INVERTER, CPI 1575

Anonymous-0 · Nov 13, 2011

thanks guys..... that's the way I'll go. Mine will be bolted to the tractor fender and hardwired to the battery. Best deal I found is on a 2500 watt one.

thanks

LJD · Nov 13, 2011

I'm not nit-picking. Just stating fact. With an inverter, there has to be as much power going in to as, as comes out of it. Actually, it needs a little more on the input.

So, It takes maybe 1100 watts coming from your cigarette lighter in DC to make 1000 watts coming out the other end in AC.

Basically, that is NOT possible.

400 watts is the usual maximum for any cigarette lighter powered inverter and 300 watts is more the norm.

buickanddeere · Nov 13, 2011

Depending on the size of the alternator. A
heavier cable back to the battery/inverter
connection maybe a gain.

LJD · Nov 13, 2011

That ad is the sort that fool people. That is a 1500 watt inverter, not a 3000 watt inverter.

A reputable seller would post that inverter as 1500 watts with a max 3000 momentary surge rating.

buickanddeere · Nov 13, 2011

LJD Is this unit any good? The thought is one of these for a UPS for the computers/entertainment system.
Another application would be our hunt camp where the solar panels don't always keep up.
Is there an inveter that is sealed enough to survive under the hood of a pickup driven in salt spray?

ebay 200588923592

LJD · Nov 13, 2011

If you're buying a "special" it might not have a thermally controlled fan and it runs all the time. No big deal for outside use. But inside an RV, that fan can drive you nuts. The better ones only have the fans come on when needed which is just about never.

Main thing is to get it wired correctly. A 1500 watt inverter with just a four-foot wire run requires #0 cable. A 2500 watt inverter is likely to need quad cables or 2/0 (or bigger) depending on how long the wire run is. If over a 10 foot run you'll need 4/0 cable, or bigger.

Too small a cable size seems to be the main reason why inverters don't work as people expect.

On a car or tractor, it's normal for battery voltage to drop to 9 volts when cranking. But with an inverter, it cannot drop below 10.5 volts and that's not always easy to do.

LJD · Nov 13, 2011

Xantrex (Trace) basically no longer exists anymore as a company. They were taken over by Duracell.

I mention that because I suppose they now sell some stuff that is made by some off-the-wall company in China.

That being said, Xantrex has long had a great reputation with the solar industry. My cabin has dual Xantrex 2400 watt inverters.

Also, I have several Duracell inverters that were actually made by Xantrex they have been excellent.

Funny thing is that a few people left Xantrex and started their own inverter company which is now close to being #1 in the solar world. Company is called Outback.

Anonymous-0 · Nov 13, 2011

OK, I found an even better price on a 1000 watt constant and 2000 watt surge. Pump is 400 watt. Tractor battery is big and 100 ah. Cables will be 18 inch max but closer to a foot. How thick of wire will I need?

Thanks, Dave

Tony in Mass. · Nov 13, 2011

This is the weapon that won the weather war earlier this month. The only thing I wish it did better was run the 14 inch electric chain saw, I have no idea what that draws.... I am buying more and better of these things, and experiment...

LJD · Nov 13, 2011

For a 1000 watt (2000 watt surge) you need . . .

One foot needs #8 copper for a 2% voltage drop.
Two feet need #6 copper for a 2% voltage drop.
Three feet need #4 copper for a 2% voltage drop.
Four feet need #2 copper for a 2% voltage drop.

A two foot run with only a 1% voltage drop needs #2 copper.

That all said, a 2% drop is fine and you only get that much drop when running at full 2000 watt surge load which is likely to be rare.

power inverters??

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