(quoted from post at 20:31:12 11/02/11) Rich---you write..."Both classes centered around safe use and handling of a firearm, you could not pass the class if you did not handle the firearm 100% safe. Im actually shocked and surprised to hear people saying that they teach the current hunters safety classes in such a way that a person passing the class would be unable to safely handle a firearm as it relates to CCW in WI."
That is not what I said...
Rich, rest assured that the current hunter safety classes as well as the ones taught since the course started, do stress the safe handling of ALL firearms, but only long guns are actually physically used in the hands on training portion. That would be rifles and shotguns, the guns primarily used in hunting.
Firearms that relate to the CCW are primarily handguns. In the class that I am involved in, students are required to bring a long gun to the class with them if they have one. If they do not, we provide them with one. The students are not allowed to bring any handguns. The only discussion on handguns is when differnt "actions" and "magazines" of firearms are discussed.
My post reads...."I am a Certified Hunter Ed instructor for both gun and archery and there is nothing in the class that addresses use of pistols/concealed carry."
There never was anything related to CCW in any of the Manuals used since the course started.
What is taught are the 4 basic rules of firearm safety....doesn"t make a diff if you are handling a BB gun or a Bazooka.
1)Treat every firearm as if it was loaded
2)Always point the muzzle in a safe direction
3)Be sure of your target and what"s beyond it
4)Keep your finger out of the trigger gaurd and off the trigger until ready to shoot
The course doesn"t teach anybody how to even load, fire, or unload a handgun. And yes, the dedicated volunteer instructors will not allow a student to pass the course unless they can show the instructor thay they know how to safely handle a firearm-----the ones primarily used for hunting...not the handguns carried in a concealed carry fashion.
Tim
Tim, thanks for the long responce, allow me to clearify a few things. First off, you did indicate that classes now dont adequately teach safe firearm handling (pistols inclusive). Here, let me quote you.
(quoted from post at 16:26:21 11/02/11)
ANYONE who has ever taken and passed the WI Hunter Safety/Education Class is eligible to apply for the permit...I am a Certified Hunter Ed instructor for both gun and archery and there is nothing in the class that addresses use of pistols/concealed carry so IMO, the Hunter Safety Class should not meet the eligibility requirement.
That to me quite clearly indicates that you feel the hunter safety classes will result in students passing the class that cant/dont meet the requirements of the law. Of course we will have to ignore that the law was written to [b:d654bc4291][i:d654bc4291]specifically[/i:d654bc4291][/b:d654bc4291] state that a WI hunters safety class did meet the requirements but thats a different discussion. Clearly, at least the way I read your statements, that kids or adults comming out of the classes dont have the skills to adequately handle a firearm proficiently (long guns and pistols combined) and thats the whole reason that the training requirement was put in the bill as per Senator Galloway. Thats disturbing to me, on many levels. I agree with Lou from Wi. that safety, be it long gun only or all guns to include pistols is the same safety skill set and mind set. When a person is taught to not point a gun at someone, I was never taught to exclude pistols from that rule. Same with the rule to never put your finger on the trigger, they never said it was OK if its a pistol.
On the other side of the coin, you state that long guns are covered in hunters safety, excluding pistols for the most part. I understand that but in both of the classes I took, we were never taught everything there is to know about long guns, far from it. In fact, we were never taught even the simplist rule that when using target guns to be careful when removing a live round as it may leave the bullet in the barrel while pulling the brass. Thats a very common error but was never taught in my classes or any other one I heard of. Thats just one example but shows how big the world of guns are. I dont point that out to say the classes are lacking, its to point out how I dont believe the classes are ment to teach [i:d654bc4291][b:d654bc4291]everything[/b:d654bc4291][/i:d654bc4291], they clearly are not. Thats why I believe like Lou that safe gun handling is a general skill, not ment to be only taught to a specific type of gun.
I have seen the results of both of my hunters safety classes, from friends from school in my first one to relatives in my second one. I noticed a marked difference in the maturity of the junior high kids in my first class. After the class, they just didnt treat guns as toys before and had much better muzzle control after the class. With the adult class, they became much better at muzzle control and where that bullet will go. The bottom line, I would trust [b:d654bc4291][i:d654bc4291]any[/i:d654bc4291][/b:d654bc4291] of my fellow students with a pistol and CCWing after the class and I think we were taught very well. Just because we werent taught pistol specific gun safety, I believe it carrys over.
Last, you are not the first or only hunter safety instructer in WI that is vocal about weather or not hunters safety classes should be allowed for CCW in WI (and again, we need to ignore that the law was specifically written to state that it was). That leaves the only logical conclusion to be drawn is that the classes being offered by the people with those opinions simply dont teach any of the skills needed to meet the spirit of the law (since we already know that it meets the letter of the law) meaning that safe pistol handeling skills dont carry over from long gun skills and/or that they simply dont learn safe gun handling skills at all. Like I said, thats disturbing to me.
