Interesting Situation.......

This came to light tonight when my wife and I were eating dinner with some close friends.

My buddy is a civil engineer, and president of a company that designs, markets, and installs laminated wood electric power transmission poles. Every three years he leases a new vehicle and the company makes the lease payments. He’s always had Lincolns in the past, but this time around, he went to our local Ford dealer and ordered a new Ford Expedition with all the goodies, including a DVD player for rear passengers. Basically the same vehicle as a Lincoln Navigator, but considerably less money.

When the vehicle arrived a couple of weeks ago, he immediately noticed it did not have the DVD player. He was told the DVD player was a dealer installed accessory, so he took delivery of the vehicle and drove it for a couple hundred miles while the dealer ordered the DVD player. Bob dropped the vehicle off one morning after the DVD player had arrived, was told it would take about three hours, and was given an F-250 pickup to drive. After lunch, he called the dealer and was told it was not quite done. The dealer is only about 4 miles from Bob’s office, so he stopped in after work and was told they had a problem.

Upshot was, in the process of installing the DVD player, they’d shorted some wires, and first time the ignition was turned on, it fried most of the vehicle’s wiring. The vehicle will now not even run. Bob immediately called Ford’s Customer Service hotline, described the problem, and asked what they were going to do about it. There is now a standoff in process, with Ford wanting to try to fix the vehicle, and Bob insisting he wants a whole new replacement vehicle. Who knows what might happen down the road. He also suggested to Ford that they park the vehicle on the street in front of the dealership with a large sign saying, “Our Service Department destroyed this new vehicle”.

It’s going to get ugly.

Several years ago, a small town in Ohio could not get around to paying Bob’s company for some power line poles Bob’s company had sold and installed. Bob told the City Attorney, “If we aren’t paid within 30 days, I’m sending a crew down from Chicago to pull the poles back out, and you can see what the he11 you do with your wire”.

The City Attorney said, “You can’t do that!”

Bob replied, “Why not?. Until you pay us, they’re my poles. Until you pay us, I can take a chain saw, saw them into a pile, and burn them”.

A week later, Bob received a registered letter with a certified check for the full amount.

And you know what? I know Bob well enough to know he wasn’t bluffing. He would have done it.

As I said, I think things will get ugly before the situation with Ford is settled.

If Ford or the dealer can fix the vehicle properly, I think it's at their discretion not the person leasing it. It might be easier to just give another vehicle though.

As far as the power poles, if Bob had cut them down (or anything else) he'd be in serious trouble. If his company is owed money, they can sue for the money owed but they CAN'T take the law into their own hands. If the poles hadn't been installed maybe he could have taken them back but not after the power lines were attached to them.

Ugly indeed !! LOL

I can't remember exactly where I do remember a fellow north of me I'm thinking near Brookville.
My Brother had hauled many loads past hi place ... Guy Bought a Nice 1950 something Ford Pickup.. Had a major problem ?? But anyway after fighting Ford for over a year the guy poured a slab just to park it on his front lawn with a big sign on it . Ford dealer didn't like it and did offer to give him a new one to replace it.
After all he went through, the guy just went and bought a Chev, kept the Ford On the slab with sign till it rusted away.

I don't even know what color the Ex is or in what state all this is going down. Were it Texas,I would advise Bob not to use same approch he did with the poles because destroying them would cost his company many times over what writing them off would. I probably wouldn't want the Ex either but it may not be that bad if lease company pays major repairs under lease aggrement.

I remember many years ago seeing a brand new Mini car parked in a street with rust patches on it already. In the window was a hand written sign :"Never buy a car from British Leyland. Look at the state of this bodywork. BL will do NOTHING about it!"

First off, Ford did not damage the wiring, the dealer did. I don't see how Ford can be responsible for something the dealer did. Certainly there was no need to escalate the matter to the manufacturer until he tried to work things out with the dealer. It sounds like your friend has a short fuse.

I'm having a bit of a problem with "fried most of the vehicle's wiring". Huh? How much unfused wiring is in a modern auto? A few inches? This doesn't pass the smell test. I don't doubt that the dealer damaged some wiring, but "most" of it? Come on.

Your buddy needs to cool his jets and give the dealer a chance to make things right. Everyone screws up every once in a while. He's not going to get his vehicle fixed any faster by threatening the dealer. And he can forget about getting the vehicle replaced. Unless it's a total loss, the dealership is well within its rights to repair it.

Bob sounds like a person with oldfashion ideas about running a company. We have a local septic tank installer he calls himself that installed for a guy who would not pay, after 6 mos. without pay he went out there and UNinstalled it. Lawyers court etc. he reinstalled it with pay in full UP front! Bob needs a lawyer.

Ah, so if you sell something and it is not paid for you can't reposess it. I didn't know that.

So if you (employee) damages something that you are working on for your employer, then only you should be held responsible, not your employer? New concept to me.

I guess you can do whatever you're big enough to do. I once installed a business telephone system plus all the cabling inside a new furniture store. I got the run-around when it was time for me to be paid. Months went by, still couldn't get paid. One day I went back to the store and took down the phone system and pulled all the cable I could without ladders and major work, the rest I chopped off short so it couldn't be reused, walked around the desks and took the phones while everyone was using their cell phones to call the main office. I got a call from the main boss telling me a runner was on his way with my money, to please put it back. I charged for the extra time and didn't put it back till I was paid in full. That was the only time in all those years I had to resort to such drastic measures, but sometimes that is what it takes. I never stood for getting Scr**ed.

An employee of a Ford dealership is not a Ford employee. Ford dealerships are not owned by Ford. When you have a vehicle serviced by a dealership, there is an implied contract between you and the dealership, NOT between you and the manufacturer.

A local JD dealer sold an expensive pressure washer on credit to a local farmer who didn't make the payments.The JD dealer was going by his house one day an saw the washer setting in front of the farmers barn.No one was home so he loaded it up and took it back to the dealership.The dealer informed the farmer who called the sheriff.The dealer was ordered to bring it back in good working order.I think they had to do some work on it to make it spray right before they took it back.

As for me & standing on the dealership
side of the counter.. I peronally don't
care for the dealerships installing Ford
Licenesed Assessories when they were orderd
on the new units.. This is a Dealership
problem unless they can prove that there
was something wrong with the instructions or
the vehicle wiring in the 1st place.

First thing Bob asked, was why didn't a fuse blow somewhere? This whole thing smells to high heaven.

Frankly, I would never have gone to this particular dealer in the first place. Truth be told, I was once Service Manager at this same dealership under a different owner. I fired the guy who is now Service Manager. The dealership has changed owners twice since then. The reason I left was when the dealership changed hands, the new owner brought his own management people along with him. He offered me the body shop, but I'd known the guy before and didn't like him or the deal he offered me on the body shop, either one.

And I still think Bob is within his rights in demanding a new vehicle. When I was with GM, an overly ambitious salesman sold a little old lady a new car and sold her an undercoating package with it. Coupla days later, the lady came in and showed the Sales Manager a line in her owner's manual that said to the effect that undercoating the vehicle would void the factory rust warranty. The dealership wound up having to give the lady another new car and refund the price of the undercoating.

In that case, they simply resold the car to someone who didn't read the fine print in the onwer's manual. I predict the outcome of Bob's situation is they will give him another new vehicle, fix the original, and sell it as a demo.

I probably made the whole situation sound simpler than it actually is.

Son in law works for a dealer. Used to be Caddy, Chevy, GM and Chrysler. The owner dumped Chrysler about 6 years ago because of thier warrenty poicies. A customer had about 14K on a new Dodge diesel and the bottem end when on the engine. The customer wanted a complete new engine. Chrysler only wanted to repace the short block. It took 3 months of legal fighting toget the guys truck fixed. So the maker can be part of the problem.

In this case it's on the dealer only. 1 Seeing as the DVD is a dealer install option then the dealer goofed up by not having the vehicle ready before delivery. 2 Ford isn't responsible, the dealership is. It isn't a warrenty issue, it's a dealer issue (Legally it's in the "let the master answer" ball park as they are responsible for thier employee's action) and the dealer isn't going to want to eat the repairs plus the price of the new vehicle. 3 I agree about the smell test. Almost every vehicle made today comes with a standard wiring harness that has plug type connectors for any and every factory or dealer installed option available. And because they have made these plug in's dummy proof there is only one way to plug it in. So the cut and slash method of installing electronics should be over by now.

Rick

If the manufacturer isn't responsible for anything a dealership does, why do the manufacturers have extensive Customer Service and Customer Satisfaction programs?

When I bought my Ford (new, from the dealer) the salesperson sent me over to some other desk to give me the up-sell on rust proofing. I declined. The lady pressed it. Showed me some "news articles" about how great it was. Finally she resorted to insulting me and then sent me back to sales with the remark that I must not planning on keeping the vehicle very long.

That was thirteen years ago. Still driving that car. No rust on it, and that is with thirteen years of Minnesota winters.

yep.. even on my old 99 ford f350.. when i just went to put a non factory radio in it. i bout the 2 din encolsure kit, and the pack that has the antenna adapter and all the power and speaker adapters.. they plug neatly into the ford wire harness. then into my new radio.

plug and play. all wire colors ID'd and all.

soundguy

Repossession, Send them a cure notice, or better yet have it served by the sherriffs office. If they dont respond after 20 days, go get your poles, simple and to the point.

In order to reposess something, you can't just go pick it up. You have to go through legal hoops first and have all your ducks in a row. Otherwise, there'd be all kinds of people taking stuff back claiming it wasn't fully paid for.

In the State of Ohio he could of repossessed the poles. He would have had to go through the courts.

Goose, the dealers signs an agreement with the manufacturer that he is supposed to keep. Yes Ford will work to fix what the dealer messed up and if Ford gets enough complaints from customers about that dealer they will shut him down but they are not legally responsible for what happens in the dealers shop. As in this instance a mechanic messed up big time. Not a warrenty issue. Therefore not Fords problem other than customer relations. Ford most likely will work with the customer to get it resolved but they can tell the guy it's not their problem. I'm sure the dealer is trying his best not to replace the vehicle because he still has to repair it out of pocket and he would have to eat the depresation if he gives this guy a new vehicle. Unlike the guy I mentioned with the Dodge diesel who's problem was because of a defective engine. There the dealer did everything possible to make it right but it was Chrysler's problem not the dealer. And lemon laws will not apply because what happened isn't a factory defect.

Rick

Dealers carry liability insurance for just such problems. We had a young mechanic who would not ask questions, or heed advice and lied about what he had done. Insurance co paid the dealer for me to completely overhaul an engine that he had screwed up good.

Where in my post did I say to do it illegally? All I said was reposess. Your original post makes it sound like the one that is owed money is SOL.

Goose, if you ever worked at a dealership you know the answer to your own question. Sometimes dealers don't do the right thing. Manufacturers have figured out that they can't afford to lose a customer just because a dealer is being a jerk. But the way you describe it, your pal didn't even give the dealership a chance to make things right before he called up Ford.

People like your friend make life miserable for the 98 percent of people who act like reasonable human beings. He's figured out he can usually get his way by flying off the handle at the slightest provocation. Just consider yourself lucky if he's the only person you know who acts like that.

Actually, I have worked in dealerships. I've been a Ford Lincoln Mercury Service Manager and a GM Assistant Service Manager.

And if you'd read all of my posts on this thread, you'd know that when I was with GM the dealership wound up giving a lady a second new car because an over zealous salesman sold her, and had applied, an undercoating package when the owner's manual clearly stated that undercoating the vehicle would void the factory rust warranty.

And Bob did try talking to the dealer to what extent he could. Unfortunately, this dealer gives whole new meaning to the term "dork". He has spy cameras all over the dealership with monitors in his house. One noon when a salesman was eating a sandwich at his desk, the dealer called from his house and asked the salesman what was on the sandwich he was eating, just to prove he could tell what everyone was doing at any given time.

I also mentioned that at one time when I was Service Manager at this dealership when it was under different ownership I fired the guy who is currently Service Manager. He was overhauling the transmission on a car from several states away. The car owner was staying in a motel. At 12:00 noon on Saturday, this guy was about an hour away from finishing the job, but when 12:00 came along, he clocked out and went home. The car owner was stuck in the motel for two more days. It was the last straw.

And this is the guy who is current Service Manager in the place. I was actually disbelieving when Bob told me he had gone to this particular dealer.