Coyotes and calves

Seriously,have any of you ever had a calf that you KNEW was lost to a coyote?
The boys have shot a few and are always looking for them,but I'm starting to rethink the whole thing. I've never known them to bother calves,at least none of mine,but I'm thinking if we leave them alone,they might get some of these problem ground birds,turkeys,geese and sandhill cranes.
Wolves,that's a different story,but from what I'm seeing the coyotes aren't much more of a threat than a fox. Am I right or wrong?

I can't say for sure if a coyote in our area has taken a calf down. But the coyotes in our area are very large, at least 24 in at the shoulder, and well able to take one if they wanted to.

I have seen them chase a full grown deer.

I wouldn"t care what others try saying about one of them being of value , shoot them all . For each one you let live , it only means more will come around . I value my farm animals more than a fox or coyote . Thinking about how a farm animal has to suffer while they are ripped apart sickens me . So a slug into a preditor makes more sense to me . Kill them at first sight . God bless America & freedom to bear arms to protect .

Yes I lost a calf to coyotes.

Saw the newborn calf sucking it"s mother at 10:00 pm.

Next morning when I went out the cow was over the hill with the other cows eating hay. When I went to check where the calf was the nite before the cow followed me to the site. Nothing was left of the calf but the hide. Coyote tracks all around the site in the dirt. The cow went nuts pawing the ground and raising cane cause of the coyote smell I imagine.

Cow laid by the hide for 2days after.

At that point I declared war on coyotes. We get about 20 a year in a 2 mile radius of my house.

Gary

I have NEVER had a coyote attack a calf. I have watched them when they have been around my cattle for years. I concluded a few years ago that they are a good predator. They mostly hunt mice and birds. They catch lots of mice in my fields. I have seen them eating the afterbirth from a new born calf, but not very often. I'm often dismayed at how we think we "have to kill" any wild animal. Don't get me wrong, I do my share of hunting....for the meat. Coyotes get pretty rough looking sometimes, but they are a good predator for the most part. I have never heard of one attacking a calf.

Yes, I lost one when we used to run cows on the home place. Have not run cows for 20-25 years and coyotes are worse. Can"t even imagine trying to do that now.

slim

Same here. Have had no trouble with coyotes yet. I still wonder what'll be on their menus next when they've multiplied to the point they eaten all other wildlife plus cats and small dogs are gone.
I ain't waiting until the cattle are outnumbered. I've already two/three volunteer coyote hunters trapping and/or shooting them!
They warm my heart when I see'n'feel those furry hides.
Fernan

Ive not lost one yet, but the coyotes seem to get in the pasture and stir things up and i can only assume there after a calf. I did find a dead coyote in the fence here early this spring. Best I figure he mite been goin after a calf and got stomped. So far so good been lucky i guess but I shoot any and all coyotes I see near my fence.There gettin pretty thick around here where i live in IN. I dont generally let anyone hunt on us but Iv started lettin a couple of my really close friends I trust hunt coyotes. I really think if the coyotes determind enuff theyd bring a calf down no problem

(quoted from post at 07:26:32 09/06/11) Yes I lost a calf to coyotes.

Saw the newborn calf sucking it"s mother at 10:00 pm.

Next morning when I went out the cow was over the hill with the other cows eating hay. When I went to check where the calf was the nite before the cow followed me to the site. Nothing was left of the calf but the hide. Coyote tracks all around the site in the dirt. The cow went nuts pawing the ground and raising cane cause of the coyote smell I imagine.

Cow laid by the hide for 2days after.

At that point I declared war on coyotes. We get about 20 a year in a 2 mile radius of my house.

Gary

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And there you go. Gary has the proof. The only GOOD coyote is a DEAD coyote. The same goes for any other predator such as racoons and possums. If you let them live, they will only multiply and cause even more grief next year.

No, and we have plenty of them around, I guess they are like any predator and would sieze an opportunity if one came along but it would take a sick or hurt calf with an inattentive mother, or a newborn that the cow abandoned but even in those cases usually other cows will watch over the calf.

I've never lost a calf to coyotes, but we calve pretty close to the house, by Wyoming standards. I will guarantee it happens, but it isn't common. If you're losing calves to coyotes, you need some better cows. Our cows are pretty calm, and we use cattle dogs through the year, but the dogs learn not to get out of the pickup during calving. A good cow won't let a dog near a newborn.

David

Coyotes here are the size of full grown German Shepherds. That's why very few people run sheep any more, and attacks on calves are common. Anyone with small grazers and browsers like goats or sheep use guard llamas or donkeys. They ran my horse through the fence one night this summer, but she came away unscathed.

oh, and yes, we have had at least two documented attacks on humans by coyotes here in the past year, one resulting in a death.

I've never SEEN a coyote take a calf down, but I have found mutliated dead calves the morning after the coyotes were out carousing the fields the night before. I hear them yipping and barking and then I find dead calves.

Which came first - the death of the calf or the yipping of the coyotes? Don't know for sure.

Tom in TN

(quoted from post at 08:21:56 09/06/11) They ran my horse through the fence one night this summer, but she came away unscathed.

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We've got 4 mares that we imported from Missouri over the past few years. All grew up in the open. Guess there must have been coyote or wild dogs around cause they only tolerate our dogs in the pasture and even are pretty antsy with them if they have babies. But any chasing involving a dog and a horse has the dog in front hating life....

They kill deer and calves here as well. They are big eastern coyotes. I remember seeing on out west one time and I thought it was a fox, they just are tiny compared to ours. We don't have wolves out here though.

Small fields and short sightlines are normal here, you can almost walk right into one surprising both of you. Nearby there have been some attacks and one killing of a person but as far as I know the worst here is they will shadow you in the woods. Creepy when it is several of them and no gun handy.

I've seen them large enough to be capable, though ones I've shot were mangy and small. I have also seen a single one pushing a full size whitetail. I went back to our small pond, a deer came running at and literally right by me as if I was not or much less of a threat. I stand there longer, same deer comes back, from 90 degrees right, right past me again, he's doing circles, trying to shake something, its tongue is out, deer looks to be exhausted. As I stand there, I can see a coyote, a very large one, with nice fur, impressive given the size and looks. Some of them are brazen, I've had them come out very close to me, wishing I had a rifle. Now I carry a rifle during archery season, because I see them often as they are here most of the time. They are a real threat in hunting season and will try and take your kill if you have to leave it to get something to tow or carry it up the hill. I would not hesitate to believe some of these could take a calf if they wanted.

The yipping and barking are after they've made a kill.

We lost a foal early in the year, a friend had his horses at our place. He saw the mare pregnant the 1 day, then went to check on her a few days later. She'd had the foal but it was no where to be seen. After looking in the brush beside the paddock he found blood and very little of the unfortunate foal. Not to sure what did it, but we have large coyote packs running close by.When i am finaly home i will be actively pointing the pointy end of my rifle thier way..

A couple springs ago we lost 4 calves to coyotes. State game warden confirmed. They had the underside tear-up pattern of coyote attack. South west PA.

Never lost a calf to a coyote, and it's not because they aren't around. We got some big healthy looking ones here, they pass right through our pasture all the time. In addition to sightings and yips and howls at night, you can judge the coyote population around here by the wood chuck population - lots of chucks, not too many coyotes, and vice versa.

And I understand the question - in most of the stories that involve a dead calf and a coyote there's no way of knowing which came first, as Tom in TN points out. My neighbor across the street shoots every one he sees, I'm still not quite sure why. I think they might get some of his chickens - those would be the chickens that roam the woods 'cause his chicken pen... ain't much of a pen.

I wouldn't be totally surprised to some morning find we lost a calf to coyote, but we've been at it for quite a few years and I haven't seen it yet.

Bingo!

The issues is that you can never shoot them all. there's not enough time in eternity to do it. They replenish rapidly.

They are up here in the NY/PA border. Guys hunt them, trap them and they say the population never goes down.

That's my thinking. We have WAY too many pests around here without any predators. My cows are pretty darned protective. God help the dog that wanders out with them. I've even seen them gang up on a woodchuck and try to stomp the daylights out of it. I've seen coyotes out in the pasture. The cows go running and the coyotes head for the hills.
To be honest,for the damage that the birds do to the crops,if the coyotes could get them under control,it would be worth one calf a year.

remember one that was killed by coyotes in the last 10 years. - during deer season came up on them still on the calf. our pasture is in some rough river bottom. this drought has been pretty rough on everything. sold most of the cows this year. we guide hunts so don't mind when the numbers are thinned. the coyotes have a large impact on quail numbers here.

I was plowing Aug. 28th in the evening when I caught a glimpse of a fast moving object out of the corner of my left eye. I turned and see a Coyote heading flat out for Rusty. (Rusty being my miniature poodle that wants to be in the field or any place I am)I started yelling as loud as I could (HERE HERE HERE) as I stopped the tractor and started to get off. I have no idea why the only thing that was coming out of my mouth was (HERE) but it worked. The Coyote made a sweeping turn which started almost straight out from me and came within 20 feet of Rusty which had looked up from his mouse hunting. The Coyote continued his large turn and jumped over the creek, stopped and watched me head on the run toward Rusty. I scooped up Rusty and turned to see the Coyote heading to the woods. The Coyote was a big sucker. I would say it was the size of a German Shepherd. At first that was what I thought it was until it stopped and looked at me with its ears pointed up. It was better than half the size of my miniature horses.
Doing chores the next morning I tried to keep Rusty close by. He did good when I fed the mares up North but when I went into the Barn to feed South of the house he slipped away and when I cam out he was back in the field mouse hunting. I ran for the rifle and then to where I could see Rusty before I called to him to come back. Rusty loves to hunt the hay field until it grows back up above his head. That usually happens in a short time.
I have noticed less wood chucks than what I was seeing early on. On RFD TV one show was talking as to how coyotes like house cats. I have also not notices stray cats in the barn lately. Rusty is not much bigger than a well fed house cat.

Never a confirmed kill, but I did see one daring daylight raid right in front of my house 2 summers ago. I just happened to be looking out my window and the cattle were loafing by the creek. I saw a coyote on the other side of the creek sneaking up in the tall grass towards a new calf. Kind of belly-crawling real slow. I ran for the rifle and just as I got outside one of the cows had sounded the alarm and my herd bull tore off through the creek after it before I could get a shot off. I think if it would have been dark, or the calf had been bedded down away from the herd, things could have ended differently.

About 5 years ago I had one calf "disappear" and for a few days afterward the herd took on a whole different personality. I was walking along the creek with my 6yo son and dog and the whole herd charged at us at full speed in a tight formation. Scared the heck out of me, but turns out they stopped about 30 feet away, inspected my dog, and started grazing again. It was really odd since she's out there every day, as am I. I can't say that a coyote killed that calf, but I know they ate it.

Last year Nancy found the remains ( head ) of a calf in one of our fields.

Notified our neighbor that it was probably one of his calves.

We have some large coyotes on our farm.

Heard the coyotes down in "the bottom" this morning about 2:30am.

Our neighbors on the Justiss ranch have at least 4 donkeys on patrol in the pasture next to us.

The donkeys are supposed to chase away the coyotes.

Losing a calf crop can be very expensive.

They are a major problem. One or 2 will distract the momma cow and the rest will sneak in from behind and kill the calf. I keep an eye and ear out for them during calving season and have my old bolt action 30-06 on stand by to take care of them. only used it once but they will try.
Alex

NO, never in 65 yrs of raising cattle have i actually seen a coyote take a calf.seen them get sheep but not a calf.heard about it all my life,folks saying they would,but never actually saw one.probably lost 30-35 to DOGS that I actually saw,in fact i shot 9 dogs in one week once,had every neighbor in the county mad( most of them got over it when they started losing cattle).every one claimed their dog woulnt kill a calf,even when the neighbor had a video of them killing a full grown cow!AND your game ranger who says he can tell the difference between a coyote and dog kill is pulling your chain,both will feed on a carcass exactly the same way.only difference,is a dog will eat one while its still alive,a coyote will at least kill whatever first.I actually saw a coyote snatch a lamb right out of a pen once with my neighbor and i leaning on the fence.newborn lamb barely able to stand,coyote came out of the brush went through one side of the board fence snatched the lamb and went out the other,never even broke stride.happened so fast we just stood there sort of shocked!quite honestly,ive never even really seen our old cows even act scared when a coyote walked past them.never even looked at them as far as i could tell.ive seen dogs kill cattle,horses kill cattle,donkeys kill cattle ,even their own mothers kill calves,but ive never actually seen a coyote kill them.and something else strange,ive never talked to anyone who actually saw one being killed by a coyote,plenty who said someone else saw it happen, and ive seen a hundred times coyotes feeding on a carcass ,but never anyone who actually saw it themselves.not saying a coyote couldnt kill one,im sure they could,but i think it would be a rarity.ive heard they will kill a lot of deer fawns,and i could see where if there was a lack of smaller prey they would.one thats grown used to eating deer,probably would be more likely in my opinion to kill a calf maybe.

Years ago, I actually saw it happening from about an 8th of a mile away. One of our cows had just had a new calf when several coyotes decided to try to get the calf. The cow went kind of crazy and started jumping around, trying to stomp the coyotes or drive them off. I was yelling and approaching at a dead run, so the coyotes took off. Unfortunately, the cow had, in her wild jumping around, landed on the baby calf's head with a hoof. By the time I got there, the calf had quit breathing, and I realized that there was no chance of saving it. I just left the dead calf there and within a couple of days, the coyotes and magpies had completely removed it.

I gunned for coyotes for years after that and downed a few. But that was the only calf loss we ever experienced from coyotes.

Yes,,,And dont let anybody tell you they wont..
One winter when there other food got in short suppley they even ganged up and killed two of my donkeys...Never never never leave a new born calf of less than 2 weeks old out in the pasture oround here or its gone.

I Heard The the Gov Let a Whole Tractor Trailer LOAD of Coyotes out over Near the Walkins Glen Race Track a few Years Back/ It was one of there Fly By Night Deals ! They are doing these things with All Kinds of Wild Life. Even Rattle Snakes .So Look out !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have had coyotes kill calves and full grown goats onmy farm.Eastern Coyotes are large and natural born killers.

I live straight North of rrlund, in same county. We certainly do have coyotes here. Hear them doing a yip session, on about a weekly basis. Usually in the late hours of the night. Usually doesn"t last long, and running out with a rifle and spotlight is nonproductive. Think they roam a fairly large area, and sweep back through an area on an almost random basis. Since we raise a specialty breed sheep, we"re very worried about losses. Have three llamas as gard animals. Have not suffered any losses. Llamas are very alert, and will attack a predator coming into the pasture. Think their size alone keeps the coyotes at bay. Never had coyotes around here when I was a kid. Sure would like to have a bunch of hunters come in and take a bunch of them out. No small game to speak of here anymore. I like rabbits and quail, partridges and pheasants. Sure miss them.

Randy,
I am due east of you and coyotes were pretty thick here when I moved in my place 8 years ago in the "boonies". At the time I had 2 English Mastiffs that would run them out, but at night the coyotes would come right up to the house within 50 yards, sometimes running between the house and the barn.
They would come up my tree rows and actually sit on the other side of my pond watching us at the campfire. Dogs would see them and take off on a chase, but mastiffs are the worlds fastest dogs.
After 5 years of the neighbors/cousins hunting them, now I"ll see one or maybe two at a time. I use to see 4-6 in a pack every few days.
I just nailed one the other day in a dead run with 30-06. 55 lb male. Neighbor heard his lab and something else growling, on his back porch his lab had drug a back quarter of a deer out of the woods and 3 coyotes were taking it from his dog, on the porch! He shot two of them.

With the size of them over here, I see no reason they why the wouldn"t go after a calf if they were hungry enough. Growing trees, mice and deer are my biggest problem. Coyotes get mice and fawns but I really don"t care to have them too close to the house.

Rick

I have lost calves every year for the last five years or so. I have seen them and tracked them so I know it is coyotes. The DNR has a park over on the other side of the valley from me. They brought coyotes in there ten years ago. They are thick now and the DNR denies that they are a problem. One will keep the cow busy and the others get the calf.

I have lost two dogs just this summer. They came home all chewed up from fighting with the coyotes. Then a few days later they did not come back. I found them later that day ,dead, and tracked the coyotes back to the State park. We have since killed thirty-two of the things. I used to let them be thinking they would help control the deer and turkeys. I now hunt them anytime I have extra time to do it.

If I still have trouble next year I WILL start poisoning the dens. If the DNR want them here then the DNR needs to pay me for my losses. If a dog kills one of my calves and I can identify who owns it they have to pay. I think the state should have to as well when their policies causes loses.

Pile on DaveII and others that think it is bad to poison animals. I want to hear what Dave would say when it is one of his horses.

We're in North Central Nebraska, in the heart of the Sandhills(look it up on a map and see how isolated we are) and we calve out about 900 or so head of cows every spring. Our family's been on the same place since the 1880's...I, and my granddad before me, have been avid coyote hunters for fur, so we've been around and seen alot of coyotes and their doings...One thing rings true above all the rest below- you never know WHAT'S gonna happen when it comes to a coyote!

I've never personally witnessed it, but I've heard of 'em pulling a half-born calf out of a cow...I'd believe that if possibly the cow couldn't get up and had been down a long time...

Like mentioned- a good cow will NOT let a coyote anywhere near a calf...newborn or not! Those that've seen coyotes eating a newborn calf, I'd bet good money the cow had a dead calf and eventually gave up and went to eat- then the coyotes moved in(that's how they make their living). For the guy who had the cow come back to where the calf was and raise cain in the area where he'd been eaten...that cow smelled BOTH coyote and calf...I regularly have them do that with just where a dead calf was that I'd picked up earlier before the cow got back.

I only know about coyotes around here...these "eastern coyotes as big as german shepards" don't exist around here. But one things for sure, there's never been a "pack of coyotes" that has killed a critter in these parts....a coyote, around here, is a solitary animal...you may see two together at times, but that's cause they're mating. A "Pack" of coyotes, at least around here, means there's dog blood in there, and, at least in these parts, we just don't see them in packs. Ever. It may sound like one at night, sure, but that's just pups talking to each other about what a pleasant evening they're having.

All in all, to answer the op's question, no, out of 40+ years of calving out 600-1000 head of momma cows each spring(and some in the fall way back when), I've never seen a coyote kill a calf. I know it's occasionally happened to a weak or abandoned calf and have seen the results of that, but the good healthy ones...nope.

Friend was bow hunting from a tree stand.3 coyotes sat under the tree looking at him for 2 hours.He carries a Navy 36 with him now.Maine bow hunters can carry hand guns.I had a good look at 2 coyotes that were trapped.They are big here,look like skinny German Shepards.I hear them at night.Fellow told me he shot two that were trying to take a newborn calf.Other cows were defending the mother and calf.Ive seen a coyote eating pear drops and they are coming into the side yard eating apple drops.They will kill dogs and they killed a woman hiker in Canada.The small game and deer population is way down here.Coyotes move into an area, eat the game and move on.People who say they are not dangerous are fools.

I don't about as big as a German Shepard but several were killed here on my farm last year during Deer season that scaled in the 50-60lb range.Some people claim they are a cross between Coyotes and the Eastern Red Wolf, anyway they're mean and can do alot of damage.

Here in S.E. Mich, near Fern I have never lost any calves either and I have all my cows calve out on pastures a long ways away from the farm. Matter of fact we don't even shoot them unless they are near the barn and house otherwise they can kill all the fawns they want.

EAT MORE VEAL !, 50'000 coyotes can't be wrong!

I will say one thing,many times,in fact most times when you see a coyote around a new calf they are not trying to eat it.but they are after its manure,very rich in milk and vitamins that a new calf gets from its mother,and its a delicacy to a coyote(or your dog).some cows will try to drive them off,some wont pay them any mind whatsoever,that all depends on the disposition of the cow.dont believe it, just put your cows up in a pen where you can watch them calve and see.coyotes gets blamed for a lot of things,such as eating quail.actually its very very rare to find quail remains in a coyotes stomach,same with bobcats.according to a 10 year study finished a few years back by the oklahoma wildlife department that was the most complete one ever,the number one killer of quail besides weather and habitat loss,is of all things snakes,and right behind that house cats.could coyote kill a calf,without a doubt yes,do they? no one yet seems to seen it actually happen but it probably does happen some.believe it or not i called in a bobcat once that weighed very close to 35 lbs.farmer whos land i was hunting,said he had been losing calves,and once i shot that cat it stopped.but folks dont blame bobcats for killing them.i shoot coyotes,always have,but i dont try to kill every one i see.and heres a little fact most folks may not know about them,killing one actually INCREASES the population!they are genetically engineered to increase litter size when numbers are reduced by some means.according to the us fish and game, in a article i read just last night, gov trappers kill @500,000 (reported) each year.they estimated,that to to actually lower the population of coyotes,we would have to kill 75% of all the coyotes in the country to see any reduction in numbers whatsoever!i dont think it hurts any thing to shoot them,and lots of states urge you to,but they are more concerned about the deer they kill instead of calves ,because deer are biggest money makers for the state wildlife departments.i ,personally ,am more concerned with my calves being struck by lightning than being eaten by coyotes.

Your post sounds like the total BS the
USHS would put out.Dead coyotes don't have larger litters,DUH! they don't have ANY litters.They aren't flies that lay millions of eggs there is a finite number and a good trapper can just about exterminate them in a given area.If your theory was correct there would be no such thing as an endangered species and there'd be a year around hunting season for endangered species because it increases their numbers.

no ,you lower the population and the litter size increases.the limiting factor is food and available range.ever seen a doe with two or even three fawns? thats because theres a abundance of food.thats a simple fact that anyone can understand,the more food the more carrying capacity plain and simple,its not some bs or rocket science.and for your info there has NEVER ,EVER been a trapper that can eliminate the coyote population,its been tried for over 200 years in the US alone,and anyone who says he can is a flat liar,or extremly ignorant!.AND most places there is a year round season on coyotes, their numbers are increasing and spreading everywhere,and folks hunt them now,in greater numbers , than ever!its one of the fastest growing hunting sports there is!.go ahead and shoot them, for every one you shoot there will be another one or two next month or next year.dont believe it, try to kill them all, you wont succeed any better than anyone else has.doubt you'll save many calves doing so.if coyotes killed calves on more than a very rare opportunistic level,the whole bovine species would have died out long ago just from the sheer numbers of predators.

(quoted from post at 12:38:10 09/07/11) no ,you lower the population and the litter size increases.the limiting factor is food and available range.ever seen a doe with two or even three fawns? thats because theres a abundance of food.thats a simple fact that anyone can understand.......

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I have to disagree, your theory works in nature, but put men with guns out there, and populations can be eliminated....... Google American Bison or Passenger Pigeon and see what happened.

If we could make a market for coyote fur, the population would dwindle overnight. There just aren't enough people out there with guns.

I'm not opposed to hunting coyotes or anything else. I'm the biggest pest eliminator there is. There are just too many houses on too many acres where people like seeing the cute wildlife out their patio doors.

Back to your regularly scheduled topic........ <rant off>

Tim

You are right on. I was in the wildlife field in my younger years and the most difficult thing to explain to the general public was population ecology. Predator control rarely works economically, it is mostly a goverment subsidy. We have more people hunting coyotes then ever and we can't control the pop. Bison and passenger pigeions are not a equal comparison.

is a market in furs of coyotes,always has been,but fur isnt worth much during summer, last i checked they were selling for $7.looks like were pretty evenly divided here as to which folks say they will and those who think they wont,funny though even the folks who say to shoot every one they can say they are seeing more coyotes all the time.wonder why that is?LOL ive been around them for many many years,rarely does a day pass i dont see at least one.even back when i was a small kid,and we would actually have "wolf hunts" folks argued about this same thing.strange though,big sheep ranchers would hire full time trappers/hunters that did NOTHING else but trap,poison, and shoot coyotes ,cattle folks never bothered.wonder why that was?the ranch hands were out just as much,saw as many or more coyotes ,and some would shoot them, but unless one was coming up to the house no one bothered much with them.in fact most old ranchers considered them sort of helpful in keeping the dead carcasses cleaned up.kind of like buzzards.a lot of this goes back to the old countries,where the settlers came from,over there wolfs were a problem and a lot of superstition grew up around them that was transfered to coyotes here.like i say I shoot them,carry a gun every day,in truck or tractor,but you and i and every other hunter in the country are not going to kill them out.not if everyone of us hunted every day.cyanide guns couldnt do it(ive used those ) strictnine in a carcass wont do it( done that also) trapping wont do it (have traps out now, do every day) rifles wont do it thats been tried also for years,dogs wont get them all (i even done that).like i say ,and every game department says also, theres just as many now ,in more places than ever.they've simply adapted to live off humans.and to them were just another source of food.they will eat your dogs food,your hogs slop,dig up your vegetables,eat your boots right off the porch,dine on your trash,eat your pets,they love cattle cubes,and they can survive in the desert and downtown new york city.your not killing them out,shoot all you want,you wont see less,and in fact you will see more because the replacements will be younger less cautious ones.

We have more people hunting coyotes then ever and we can't control the pop. Bison and passenger pigeions are not a equal comparison.

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I agree, around here there are more people hunting than ever, but 30 years ago we didn't have coyotes here. There hunters aren't multiplying as fast as the coyotes.

We had an abandoned homestead at what we used to call the north farm, when I was growing up. It was overrun with woodchucks. When I was 13 and allowed to carry a gun by myself, I started walking the mile up there almost every day, sometimes twice a day, all summer. I promise you, by the next spring, the population had a very large dent in it. The soybean fields surrounding the farmestead showed the absence of chuck damage. By the following fall, I barely went up there anymore because there weren't enough chucks to make it worth the trip.

I guess that's not an equal comparison either.....

Why was there so much controversy when they repopulated the wolves at Yellowstone?? Because there were still people alive who remembered killing the population off and didn't want them brought back to kill cattle and sheep?? Which is exactly what happened when the wolves decided to ignore the borders of the park.

Again, not an equal comparison, I'm sure.

When I was in high school, every kid in the neighborhood trapped, me included. There wasn't a section of ditch that didn't have muskrat traps in it. There were years when farms didn't have any 'rats in the ditches because we over trapped them. I can take you down the same ditches this winter and will show you more 'rats than have been there over 30 years. There are prbably only 4 trappers in the county instaed of 4 in every section.

Once again.... not an equal comparison.

I just can't imagine that the answer to the problem is don't shoot anything and they will control themselves........ sounds like the same way of thinking that the knuckleheads use when they say cops shouldn't chase criminals, because someboday might get hurt....

I may be wrong though.....

Tim

....and another thing......

A couple of boxes of D-con never seems to increase the population of mice/rats.

I know.... not an equal comparison.......

Tim

You are dead wrong I had a pack of coyotes around my farm trapper got 13 of them and no more problem for about 2 years,more moved in trapped them down again.I guess you unload a bunch of rats to control the population? Tell US Fish and Game to declare year around hunting and trapping to increase Endangered Species populations.

Ah, if the world were only so simple. The biggest cause of endangered species is loss of habitat. There is no loss of habitat problem for coyotes, they've proven they can thrive just about anywhere...

not a comparison to a coyote in any of this,a coyote is a pretty unique animal.first of all it will eat anything.a wolf,a muskrat,rats,and mice wont.in fact very very few animals,with the possible exception of humans will.no other animal has such a diverse diet.if one thing is scarce they simply switch to another,or they eat them all at the same time which almost guarantees their ability to survive.very few animals have the ability to do this.a cow will die if you throw it out on johnson grass in certain conditions,where the other cow thats fed johnson grass constantly it wont bother at all.horses,dogs almost any other animal will do the same,they need to gradually have their feed changed.next thing that helps tham is they are very very smart and adaptive.most animals arent.deer can adapt very readily,and lots of animals will over time.but a coyote can adapt within minutes.try raising one from a pup and you'll see.a dog needs constant reminders to stay on top his game,a coyote doesnt,once he has it its there and he never loses it, and in fact will push you to remain ahead of him because they are constantly pushing the boundaries just a little.they never stop hunting,and like a zebra,no one has really ever bred or trained the wild out of one.while they can be taught most every thing they always retain that wild side that you never know when will surface.and they are always thinking.they have an almost uncanny ability to remember things that they bring from the wild.a coyote is sort of strange also in that it caches food.not for a day, as a lot of other animals will ,such as a dog hiding a bone,but they will come back months later to that exact spot and dig something up.what kept their range down in the past was never their ability to adapt,but the presence of larger predators that preyed on them,such as the wolf,owls,eagles etc,not their inability to increase their range.just like foxes are becoming more and more prevelent in oklahoma, coyotes are adaptive enough to almost overnight slide into a place vacated by the removal of any competition.wheather you like them or not they are here to stay,, but I will give you a tip on how to get along with them better.having kept them as pets in the past.first and foremost,never ever under any circumstance leave a carcass of a cow,calf,sheep,whatever laying in your pastures to let "nature" take its course.99.9% of the time that nature is none other than the lowly coyote.i have little sympathy for a person who complains of a coyote getting his sheep,chickens or calves when they actually feed the coyotes the same things on a regular basis!you are when this happens actually TRAINING that coyote to eat your animals!they are NOT dogs that eat what you put in their bowl,and if they dont seem to like it you give them something else.they are very very very much top of the line predators.a wolf cant hold a candle to them,a bear its to laugh,no other predator in the world PERIOD is as effecient.their only saving grace is their size,and the fact that they are so effecient,makes it very easy to keep their bellies full.BUT they are also oppertunists and they are smart enough and adaptive enough to make the most of every situation and they will take a handout every time.if you feed them calves,why would you be surprised if they kill one? youve trained them to do so ,and given them the go ahead!anyone who doesnt understand this just doesnt realize how smart these creatures really are.trust me in this,if you believe that coyotes will regularly kill your cattle,burn evry one that dies naturally,or pay the rendering folks to come pick it up.if you leave them lay,your simply shooting yourself in the foot!

point is they keep reapearing,did your trapper say he got them all?bet he didnt,and i would be willing to wager you couldnt get him to.if you like having them trapped out every couple of years fine,you wont get them all, and you can kepp calling that trapper for your and his lifetime,and never get them all.you can get a bunch in one place but as soon as you quit they will be back.myself ,i prefer a little different approach,i simply let them sort themselves out for the most part.they will naturally thin themselves.after all a coyotes home range is only 1-3 square miles and they dont really like intruders.when you get a family group,(which is what your trapper did believe it or not ),mice and things that are the normal prey for these animals increase,almost overnight.along comes a coyote from a neighboring place ,finds a overabundance of food,finds a mate and starts having litters.since food is abundant,and that normal range is so greatly narrowed,you dont even see them,they increase until food again starts to become scarce and your right back in the same old cycle again.your not hurting the coyote population in any way shape or form.your simply increasing the boom or bust way of nature on a minute scale on your property.probably 90% of those coyotes you trapped out would have died of natural causes anyway.the remaining ones would have simply moved on to find new ranges of their own,or have been driven off by the older more mature one protecting their own home range.let me guess, your trapper showed up in the fall,september october time frame?right? probably said he was busy till then,if he told you anything at all?old trick that keeps the uninformed thinking they are really getting something done.and really cleaning up the coyote population.trouble is he simply caught the young coyotes,ones that wouldnt have survived the winter anyway,and the others,the strongest ones ,ones that had the ability to survive on their own simply moved on like they would have anyhow.LOL played the game a long time myself.chances are about 100-1 that he never got the older more mature animals to start with,and they simply ,since their prey again became abundant, stayed out of sight until again they had another bunch of pups.and yes a overabundance of rats becomes self limiting simply because they starve,as will every creature from earthworms to humans. coyotes because they eat every thing from earthworms to human bodies,along with thousands of types of plants,will survive where even a rat or human cannot.ery very few animals can thrive on such a varied a diet as coyotes,and a coyote will literaly thrive where you yourself will starve.that and that alone is what sets them up to increase their range exponentially.