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Anonymous-0

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I rent land from a guy I went to high school with. A farm kid, he went to the army, college, and the west coast and I guess did well. He ended up buying most his dads and grandpas farms, and at a auction bought some neighbors land. He worked 1031 exchanges as well as anyone. I rent 480 farmland acres from him and anouther guy we went to school with rents 1120 acres, about 1/2 farmland and the rest pasture. He has always been fair, helps when he is around, and accepts a little below the going rate for cash rent. So a land auction is comming up. 320 acres next to him. We all want it. Tonght he is in town and took us out to supper and finally says, "I would never tell you guys how to farm" and "you guys would never tell me how to be a land lord, and we all recognize everyone has a right to try to make a living". "However if either one of you bids against me on that land, I won't rent anything to either of you". I guess I will set this one out and hope to rent some more land from him next year.
 
Now THERE is a guy with people skills. Hope you and your other buddy appreciate the fact that he was straight up front with you AND fed you dinner............
 
Wow. Sounds like a real square guy. Have your wife bid on it for you. He only said you couldn't bid on it. Unless you need the acres, I would scratch him off the friend list right now. Had a so called childhood friend that I grew up with double cross me ten years ago. I haven't spoken to him since.
 
(quoted from post at 01:37:17 08/19/11) Wow. Sounds like a real square guy. Have your wife bid on it for you. He only said you couldn't bid on it. Unless you need the acres, I would scratch him off the friend list right now. Had a so called childhood friend that I grew up with double cross me ten years ago. I haven't spoken to him since.
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I didn't see any doublecross or mixed words. He laid it flat on the table and gave them a choice. He's prolly not the type of that'd ask a neighbor's permission to fence HIS property or except them tresspassing.....

What's not to respect??? He may be a richard, but he put it out straight without hiding or ducking...
 
In any case, if he pulled something like that on me, I wouldn't be renting anything from him again after this years lease was up and I wouldn't be speaking to him again either. Some people don't have morals and evidentally he is one of them.
 
Of course if you did bid against him anyway,,,, it won't mean anyhting if you won and had your own place.

Can't you hire a agent to bid for you, or phone bid so you remain unknown?

L.
 
(quoted from post at 03:05:02 08/19/11) Can't you hire a agent to bid for you, or phone bid so you remain unknown?

L.
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Some of you folks kill me...... Guess there are no Hancock's in your family tree................

Oh well, to each their own....
 
I would puke up his dinner and run that bid sky high until either I bought the property or thought I had bidded high enough. I wouldn't let him buy my silence. That's why we fight to keep our rights. Hal
 
It all boils down to how much you want to rent his land.He'll probably bid over market value anyway since he has the $$$ and wants the land so all you'll accomplish is driving up his price and loosing your rental land. Also you and the other renter would be bidding against each other anyway so your chances of getting the property is pretty slim unless you have a rich Uncle to fund you."Money talks BS stands there with their hands in their pockets at an auction".No sense in getting rich if you're not going to use the $$$ to your advantage.Reminds me of an auction a couple years ago local small dealer knew I wanted a certain tractor and he knew I was pretty much going to buy it but he ran me up anyway about $500 over other bidders.Thats fine I ran him up on about 10 pieces that day and cost him at least $2000 more than he'd of had to pay if I hadn't been bidding,he stays off my items now at sales.
 
Can you agree on that if you can get a 5 year lease renewable when 2 years are left on the lease? Sounds like a good chunk of your operation is ground leased from him. I suggest you work with him and not against him. I don't agree in principal with what he did, but if you depend on him for leased ground you gotta work with him. If he charges low rental rates you could be quite profitable.
 
How does that take care of the future? This guy sounds like he likes to keep track of things so at some point the friend's ownership will come to light meaning the end of renting the landlord's ground. I don't if Chris can afford to make such a powerful enemy that has no problem being a factor in the the local land owning picture. It isn't right to bully like that but that often is life.
I don't know that I should say anything about the local land owning situation and the players in it. I've heard some pretty unflattering comments about certain people. I've heard that one landowner years ago was paying a local bank's loan officers to undermine competitor's loan applications. It sure is not right but the point it is people will go through great lengths, ethical or not, to get their way.
 
I like his honesty.He could have not told you this. After the sale when you did not get the property but had bid against him you loose your rented ground and wonder why." Where business begins friendship ends" Family is whole nother story.
 
So.........what's the problem? The land owner sounds like a stand-up guy to me. I rented a lot of acres from a lot of folks; I was friends with some of 'em and some of 'em I barely knew; with some of 'em, I had a detailed written lease; with some, it was just a handshake, but in every case, it was a business arrangement.
 
I just wish my landlords would have been that honest with me. Been back stabbed a few times.
The balls in your court. Mark
 
As a temp landloard I'm up front with the guy renting most of my crop land. If I were in your landloards boat I'd have said the same thing. Renters around here are coming close to fighting over land so finding someone to reant the land would be no problem. My renter is a great guy and has become a close friend. I'm ammused by his actions over the last few months because I told him that next year is his last year. With me startng to farm I want my land back. I'm not quite ready for it yet but in another year I will be. He would like to keep renting it. He's been calling and offering favors and things! He even offered to cut an bale 13 acres for me! Last year he was selling me hay (about 10 bucks under the going price and he delivered it) and now this year he's offering to help for free?????

In your shoes I'd have to decide if the land I'm renting is that important to my operation or if owning the land would be a better deal for me in the long run. That is up to you.


Rick
 
I would prob tell him to stick that lease up his arse and go pound sand and leave the table right there. :roll:

He would prob outbid me on that land,but its the principal of it.
It's still a free world out there and i hate Bullies,which clearly showed he is, when he told you guys.
The dinner was just his defuser to come over as mr nice guy.
 
Be thankful that he doesn't wait until after the auction to mention that you are former tenants. No way would I help someone by renting him ground when he repays me with competition at an auction, unless there wasn't another choice. Sightly different situation if he was family, but still likely would "toe-the-line" and pass this auction.
 
I call that a win-win for you. You know not to get in a losing situation, and you got a free meal. I found that I would much rather deal with a total tool, than with somebody who isn't honest with you. The tools are always tools - you know what to expect. It's the guys who backstab you while telling you how great you are that are the worst. I'd go to the auction with the guy, socialize and work with him. He might need a little help, and it can't hurt you. BTW, family can be the worst to do business with.
 
Unfortunately, the Golden Rule prevails, in both senses, here- "Do unto others", and "He who has the gold makes the rules." Telling you out front was the stand-up thing to do, and you obviously need him more than he needs you. May not seem fair, but thats the way life is.

He'd have out bid you anyhow, and if you took the righteous indignation approach of Bison and Retired Farmer, he'd still end up with the land, and you'd be walkin' down the road talkin' to yourself. Never take somebody on unless you're sure of the endgame.

He sounds like a decent guy, and taking the hard line with you was probably not real easy for him- as evidenced by the fact that he took you out to dinner to make it as painless as possible. I'll bet you and the other guy will be treated fairly in the future, partly out of guilt. He's probably not done acquiring land, and I'd continue to cultivate the relationship (pun kind of intended).
 
Farm ground prices have cycles, and we are in a strong upsurge right now pushed by high crop prices which are in turn pushed by huge state and federal subsidies for ethanol production.

Those subsidies may soon get cut. There is no way to predict how high land prices will go or how long it the trend will last, but it will turn.

My advice would be to buy yourself a home place, with cash, to live on and retire on, if you don't already have one. Watch the long-term land price trends and be happy to have a decent landlord. If you are patient, you can buy lots of land in the next downturn.
 
I like the pun. As for sending my wife to do my bidding, my wife and his wife are cousins. I think he would be on to me right away, he is not the kind of guy that would not miss a detail like that. And Yep, we come from a small town. I agree with most and think he did me a favor. Do I now, with land prices at a all time high, realy want to go several hundreds of thousands in debt? Rented land cash flows better than buying land anyway. If I am renting I can walk away from it, and he rents below market. I hope he gets it. Some times though serious outside money comes in from guys from Denver, Phoenix and Minneapolis. Each has his own farmers, and frankly I get treated better by my landlord in California. Those guys were all on the same high school basketball team that lost the regional championship back in the 1970's, still competative, they are still blaming each other for the loss.
 
Lots of variables, hard to call it from a distance, but in general a good business deal should benefit both parties. If he doesn't feel he'd be losing something by losing you as tenants, then there's something wrong with your rent deal. You might be losing that rented land no matter what else happens.

But if you didn't say to him right then and there that you wouldn't tolerate being threatened, it's too late anyway - he's won.
 
I would have said, Hay Buddy, I agree with your thinking completely. If you bid against me on that land I won't be renting from you next year.
 
(quoted from post at 20:46:20 08/19/11) I would have said, Hay Buddy, I agree with your thinking completely. If you bid against me on that land I won't be renting from you next year.
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100% correct ldj. And having done that do you think this other guy would say "Hey I appreciate you being honest and up front with me - you're a great guy!"? Not a chance...

He's holding the rent deal hostage, and you're giving in to him...
 
If I were in your shoes, I'd go with your first thought, sit this one out. land auctions against neighbors is a lose/lose situation I think, lots of hard feelings. If he wins, you could get a chance to rent more. If he loses the bid, be thankfull that you were on the sidelines. Sounds like a swell landlord to me.
 
I would go to the auction with him and bring your checkbook. If he bids higher than you want to go then its a non issue and maybe you'll get to rent more land like you said.

BUT, ask him at what price he plans to push it to and you'll stay out of it until he's reached his limit then no hard feelings if you jump in at that point. If he won't commit to a price then let him know if the auctioneer says going once...going twice...and he's not holding top bid, then you're going to jump in if he falters.

The last thing you want to do is not go to the auction and have him puss out on the price and you weren't there to pick up the ball. Then you both get to watch the out of towners farm it.
 
Your land lord did you a favor. He could have not said a thing and just rented to the next fellow that bid higher than you. Also do you really want to buy land when it is at historical highs?????

I have a good friend that has done very well. He has been buying land the last few years. He has told me the stock market has gotten to unstable for him to stay in it. He is willing to bid pretty high on ground because he want the security that it has against a bad economy. The land will raise and fall but will always be worth something. Stock in companies can become worthless.

Also your land lord may have been telling you in a way that he was going to buy that farm. He may have sold land in CA that he has a lot of capitol gains on. He may need that ground to sink those profits into. Us farmers think $10,000 acre ground is crazy high. He may have commercial land out there that is selling for twenty time that. So he can get a lot of land here for a few acres there.

It is also strange that the most confrontational guys are mostly out of farming. If you are not currently renting ground you have never seen the pressure on being able to keep renting ground. You might be giving what you think it crazy high and the next fellow will beat that buy 20%.

Two farms just rented for next year here, $490 a deeded acre. That means that the guy is paying rent on the road ditch and half the county road. Makes the farm-able ground right at $530 per acre.

A farmer can rarely compete with out side money in a land biding contest.
 
(quoted from post at 22:51:21 08/19/11) Don't believe it was a threat, just a fact if he bid against him.
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Exactly............... I'd be leary to do business with anyone that woulkd argue with the guy's actions. No bullying, no threat, just a simple straight forward statement that left them to do as they wish. What's not to respect about a guy that started out in the dirt, [u:7f58b63461]volunteered[/u:7f58b63461] to serve his country, made smart money/business decisions (and guesses), and came out ahead of the game And still has the decency to show his tennants/friends the respect and common courtesy of laying it out straight for them.

That's better than most folks get from someone they actually call a friend and most family members...........
 
It's a threat, plain and simple.

If the current rental agreement is a good business arrangement, then the auction should have no influence on that. The fact that he links the auction to the current rental shows clearly that it's NOT just business. He thinks he can push you out of the way before the auction evens starts. No good business man would risk losing the auction AND losing a good tenant.

Again, as a test reverse the positions - tell him that you won't rent from him again if he bids against you - see if he thinks you're just showing good business sense and that you're doing him a favor. I'm betting that he'd see not see it that way that he'd clearly see that as the threat it is, and probably react accordingly.

Now if he had said that he intended to buy that land, and that he had pretty deep pockets and figured that you bidding against him would just result in him having to pay a higher price, so please don't bother, I'd see that little different. But linking the result of two different business deals together is NOT good business, it's a threat.
 
No doubt it's a threat... but it's by no means the first threat that was made in business and it won't be the last.
I don't see why everyone thinks the guy is stupid... or this stuff about losing a renter. If it's like most other places then there's likely 20 more beating down his door to get the land and probably willing to pay more. When you're dealing with an a$$ in that position the ball is in your court as to how you want to handle it. If you know that somebody else will get the ground if you peeve him... and you need the ground more than you need to buy it... why rock the boat? Ending up with nothing just to prove a point is pretty damn stupid in my book. Ya haven't really proved much if you're sitting there with no income, payments to make on gear and your two thumbs stuck up yer arse.
I've had to deal with jerk-off's like that before... and I've dealt with them as long as necessary... but the best thing to do is get clear of them at the earliest oppertunity and they can keep their drama to themselves.
Owning land right now, particularly through debt is probably not the smartest plan either. I'm of the opinion that a reckoning is coming before too long and interest will rise considerably...

Rod
 
If you're the renter, you got to make your own decision. If there's more land for rent in the area than there are tenants you might decide one way, if the situation is reversed maybe it's best to yield. You got to do what's best for you. But it's clearly a threat, and you should at least acknowledge to yourself exactly what it is. Pretending it's something else will not help you make the right decision now or next time.

I think throwing down enough cash to cover your meal would at least let the guy know you need to be dealt with as a business person. If the guy thinks he can walk all over you for the price of a meal he'll do it again - I wouldn't expect to be treated any better in the future. So I'd definitely agree that the best thing is to get yourself rid of this guy and find a better landlord - once this guy thinks he's can intimidate you he'll do it again.
 
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