- Thread starter EricB
- Start date
I wouldn't perminatly increase the amp capacity of the generator breaker/overcurrent protection but bypassing it temporarly with a new breaker with same amps as origional may prove the present one is defective. Normal start amps is much higher than run amps on all compressors. Eventhough the generator is desighned to carry over 2500 watts surge,the compressor may be demanding more than that on start. Here is something to try if the new breaker also trips. Bleed the air pressure off before hooking the compressor up. Even if the compressor starts and builds pressure,it wont do it again without bleeding pressure off. If you have an inductive pickup amp meter,see what the start amps are while plugged in at the shop.
The trouble is it can (depends on motor design) take 5 or 6 times the current to start a motor then it takes to run it AND YOU GENSET MAY SIMPLY LACK THE CAPACITY. That's very typical (trip a breaker) in cases where the genny lacks capacity.
As an engineer I'm hesitant to advise you to use bigger breakers etc. ALTHOUGH YES BILLY BOB IT MIGHT "WORK" Your money your genny your choice NOT mine or anyone here!!!!!!!!!!!! Still, regardless if you try a bigger breaker, the genny may just not have the capacity. Other things may be to use a dual element time delay (Class K5 if I recall, designed to allow the short time extra current for motor start up) fuse instead of a circuit breaker or a breaker designed to allow for motor start up if any such exist from the genny manufacturer, but I sorta doubt that as they dont want to risk the genny windings overheating.
It can help if the compressor is fully unloaded i.e. NO PSI or air in the receiver tank and if it has been run a while say on regular AC power and all warmed up and then unloaded.
Also use of the shortest and a higher ampacity cord (at least 12 gaige0 from genny to compressor can help.
WARM UP THE COMPRESSOR THEN UNLOAD IT,,,,,,,,,,,USE A SHORT HEAVY CORD,,,,,,,CONSULT WITH THE GENNY TECH PEOPLE FOR ADVICE,,,,,,,TRY A BIGGER BREAKER AT YOUR OWN RISK (it could possibly "work" but not may advice)
John T
As an engineer I'm hesitant to advise you to use bigger breakers etc. ALTHOUGH YES BILLY BOB IT MIGHT "WORK" Your money your genny your choice NOT mine or anyone here!!!!!!!!!!!! Still, regardless if you try a bigger breaker, the genny may just not have the capacity. Other things may be to use a dual element time delay (Class K5 if I recall, designed to allow the short time extra current for motor start up) fuse instead of a circuit breaker or a breaker designed to allow for motor start up if any such exist from the genny manufacturer, but I sorta doubt that as they dont want to risk the genny windings overheating.
It can help if the compressor is fully unloaded i.e. NO PSI or air in the receiver tank and if it has been run a while say on regular AC power and all warmed up and then unloaded.
Also use of the shortest and a higher ampacity cord (at least 12 gaige0 from genny to compressor can help.
WARM UP THE COMPRESSOR THEN UNLOAD IT,,,,,,,,,,,USE A SHORT HEAVY CORD,,,,,,,CONSULT WITH THE GENNY TECH PEOPLE FOR ADVICE,,,,,,,TRY A BIGGER BREAKER AT YOUR OWN RISK (it could possibly "work" but not may advice)
John T
Geo-TH,In
Well-known Member
When it comes to breaker, I would not install anything bigger than what's there.
I find oilless compressors draw more starting amps than than a regular comp. My 3 hp oilless would trip a 20 amp breaker.
Second, I have a 3500 watt RV genny that has one 110v outlet rated at 30 amps. I'm not sure, but how many gennys have a 110v 30 amp out, unless it's an RV?
George
I find oilless compressors draw more starting amps than than a regular comp. My 3 hp oilless would trip a 20 amp breaker.
Second, I have a 3500 watt RV genny that has one 110v outlet rated at 30 amps. I'm not sure, but how many gennys have a 110v 30 amp out, unless it's an RV?
George
"I'm not sure, but how many gennys have a 110v 30 amp out, unless it's an RV?"
EXACTLY right George, I've owned a ton of Generator equipped RV's and they are designed to feed a 30 amp typical RV hook up, HOWEVER the majority are 4 KW, unlike the smaller 2.5 or 2.8 designed for an RV that only uses a 20 amp supply.
I have seen 30 amp receptacle equipped gennys, but those are usually on a bigger then a 2.5 KW unit Id say, more like a 3.5 or 4 KW...
Fun sparky chat
John T
EXACTLY right George, I've owned a ton of Generator equipped RV's and they are designed to feed a 30 amp typical RV hook up, HOWEVER the majority are 4 KW, unlike the smaller 2.5 or 2.8 designed for an RV that only uses a 20 amp supply.
I have seen 30 amp receptacle equipped gennys, but those are usually on a bigger then a 2.5 KW unit Id say, more like a 3.5 or 4 KW...
Fun sparky chat
John T
Does your compressor have any pressure in the system when trying to start?
I had a small compressor some years ago and used a 3200 watt generator to run it. I could get the compressor started if there was little to no pressure in the tank. Couldn't get it to start if tank already had pressure. To much motor load to get started.
I wouldn't up the size of the breaker. But if you do you may be buying another generator. Bigger.
I had a small compressor some years ago and used a 3200 watt generator to run it. I could get the compressor started if there was little to no pressure in the tank. Couldn't get it to start if tank already had pressure. To much motor load to get started.
I wouldn't up the size of the breaker. But if you do you may be buying another generator. Bigger.
Russ from MN
Well-known Member
- Location
- Bemidji MN
There is a reason it has a 15A breaker! That compressor probably draws 30 or more amps for a few seconds when it starts. My 1hp draws 50 for a few seconds.
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
Does the generator have a 20amp twist lock RV receptacle? Try it.
Not a chance of working if the generator has a 240V 15amp outlet. Only half of the generator is supplying the 120V outlets.
As previously stated if this miss-matched combo is going to work at all. The compressor must be at zero pressure to possibly start.
The compressor would be a heavy starting load even for one of those 120V only RV dedicated 3500/4000W generators. With one heavy 120V stator winding. They are built with a 30amp 120V twist-loc receptacle and no 240 capability.
Seen a Champion 4000W surge, 3000W continuous on sale for $400.00 which is a good deal around here.
Not a chance of working if the generator has a 240V 15amp outlet. Only half of the generator is supplying the 120V outlets.
As previously stated if this miss-matched combo is going to work at all. The compressor must be at zero pressure to possibly start.
The compressor would be a heavy starting load even for one of those 120V only RV dedicated 3500/4000W generators. With one heavy 120V stator winding. They are built with a 30amp 120V twist-loc receptacle and no 240 capability.
Seen a Champion 4000W surge, 3000W continuous on sale for $400.00 which is a good deal around here.
Yes you need a few more horses under the hood ! Harbor freight has great deals on their gen sets now and just a couple of weeks ago the big 6000 was like $100.oo cheaper. Also something everyone forgot. Is his Auto unloader working? When youre compressor shuts off it should go Pishhh. The motor will have one he--l of a time starting if there is head pressure in the pump. All of the symptoms you told us fit. Jeffcat
Geo-TH,In
Well-known Member
JohnT,
My 3500 watt genny has a peak rating of 4000 watts. I bought it used. It's a cheap chinese made champion. You can pick new ones up on sale for around $300, or pay over 5 times that much for a honda. I simply love mine because it can start just about anything on the 30 amp plug, it's 67db, very quiet, uses very little gas, very easy to start when it's warm. Takes more effort when it cold. I'm looking for a second RV genny with electric start.
George
My 3500 watt genny has a peak rating of 4000 watts. I bought it used. It's a cheap chinese made champion. You can pick new ones up on sale for around $300, or pay over 5 times that much for a honda. I simply love mine because it can start just about anything on the 30 amp plug, it's 67db, very quiet, uses very little gas, very easy to start when it's warm. Takes more effort when it cold. I'm looking for a second RV genny with electric start.
George
Whoopeee,It's not every day a country lawyer or an engineer sets himself up for a "GOTCA". Emagine if one was both lawyer AND engineer,that makes it once in a lifetime material.
"I have seen 30 amp receptacle equipped gennys, but those are usually on a bigger then a 2.5 KW unit Id say, more like a 3.5 or 4 KW..."
Hee hee hee,no kidding? The word USUALY might need to be replaced with the word NEVER plus the disclaimer "unless Billy Bob had messed with it" is missing.
"I have seen 30 amp receptacle equipped gennys, but those are usually on a bigger then a 2.5 KW unit Id say, more like a 3.5 or 4 KW..."
Hee hee hee,no kidding? The word USUALY might need to be replaced with the word NEVER plus the disclaimer "unless Billy Bob had messed with it" is missing.
Thanks everyone for your input. I'm aware that the amperage draw is critical on start-up as sometimes a 15 Amp breaker in the shop will also give out. The air bleed-off for re-start works every time and yes I should have a bigger gen-set. I'm glad I didn't get the gen-set for the specific purpose of running the compressor, however, I didn't know it is un-usable for this purpose....you live and learn. I figured someone on here would have run into the same predicament.
If your generator offers 220,most compressor motors can operate on either.
Electric motors are a different ball game on 220. So much so that compressors and other heavy applications should be run on 220 even in the shop. If you don't need full output of compressor,increasing size of pump pulley and/or decreasing size of motor pulley and adjusting psi cutout to lower pressure could be the answer in a pinch. No harm would result,
Electric motors are a different ball game on 220. So much so that compressors and other heavy applications should be run on 220 even in the shop. If you don't need full output of compressor,increasing size of pump pulley and/or decreasing size of motor pulley and adjusting psi cutout to lower pressure could be the answer in a pinch. No harm would result,
I apologize to anyone who was offended if my post was taken wrong, but I WAS NOT TRYING TO PLAY GOTCHA, ONLY TRYING TO HELP THE POSTER.
I've been here over 15 years and try my best to HELP NOT FIGHT and have spent countless hours which I enjoy to HELP PEOPLE and I DO NOT ENGAGE IN GOTCHA ON THE OTHER GENTLEMEN HERE. If they are incorrect, yes I will politefully and respectfully point that out so as to provide CORRECT information and possibly save a life as electricity is dangerous, and I never PLAY GOTCHA as accused, I only try to help people.
With respect to Generators, in my 40 years of Electrical Engineering and Farming and as a used Equipment Dealer if a Genset is equipped with a 30 amp receptacle YES INDEED ITS USUALLY (as I stated) on a larger unit. I have seen all sizes and shapes and brands foreign and domestic and "usually" 30 amp receptacles are on larger units although indeed, I have seen such on smaller also (but NOT usually), thus I carefully chose my word "usually". I learned years ago TO NEVER SAY NEVER, so since the 30 amp receptacles Ive seen (and a ton over 40 years) are "usually" (but NOT on everyone) on larger units that's the word I chose and which I stand behind as the most true and accurate.
Thanks for your post but believe me I was NOT trying to play gotcha, only trying to help others and provide the most true and accurate information to the best of my honest ability.
Best wishes, God Bless you, and you and your family have a Merry CHRISTmas
John T BSEE, JD Electrical Engineer and Attorney and yes, I worked hard for both and am darn proud of it
I've been here over 15 years and try my best to HELP NOT FIGHT and have spent countless hours which I enjoy to HELP PEOPLE and I DO NOT ENGAGE IN GOTCHA ON THE OTHER GENTLEMEN HERE. If they are incorrect, yes I will politefully and respectfully point that out so as to provide CORRECT information and possibly save a life as electricity is dangerous, and I never PLAY GOTCHA as accused, I only try to help people.
With respect to Generators, in my 40 years of Electrical Engineering and Farming and as a used Equipment Dealer if a Genset is equipped with a 30 amp receptacle YES INDEED ITS USUALLY (as I stated) on a larger unit. I have seen all sizes and shapes and brands foreign and domestic and "usually" 30 amp receptacles are on larger units although indeed, I have seen such on smaller also (but NOT usually), thus I carefully chose my word "usually". I learned years ago TO NEVER SAY NEVER, so since the 30 amp receptacles Ive seen (and a ton over 40 years) are "usually" (but NOT on everyone) on larger units that's the word I chose and which I stand behind as the most true and accurate.
Thanks for your post but believe me I was NOT trying to play gotcha, only trying to help others and provide the most true and accurate information to the best of my honest ability.
Best wishes, God Bless you, and you and your family have a Merry CHRISTmas
John T BSEE, JD Electrical Engineer and Attorney and yes, I worked hard for both and am darn proud of it
Bob Bancroft
Well-known Member
- Location
- Aurora NY
John; Would you e-mail me so we could chat privately?
John T, my apology for ill advised remarks.
I highly respect your conduct and value your willingness to share knowledge and tempered point of view.
Fellow YT members,please forgive any appearance of disrespect to our friend. Please believe me when I say it was intended as humor because I thought John T had slipped,which would be a first as far as I know.
I highly respect your conduct and value your willingness to share knowledge and tempered point of view.
Fellow YT members,please forgive any appearance of disrespect to our friend. Please believe me when I say it was intended as humor because I thought John T had slipped,which would be a first as far as I know.
No apology in order, but thanks for your kind words, I'm glad you see I didn't purposely intend to play the GOTCHA game.
ME slipped??? HEY IT WOULDNT BE THE FIRST NOR THE LAST TIME LOL Many times my fingers get ahead of my old brain and Ive had my share of mistakes grrrrrrrrr but not since Christ walked the earth have any of us mere mortals been perfect I figure. I still try my best to help and "often" I hope I do
When I was buying and selling equipment for a living and as a small business, I saw so many kind of gensets (and yes with all sorts of outlets) and many were so big n bulky n heavy and oddball looking, a few years back I cleaned up and hauled them off to auctions having no idea which worked and which didn't.
Are we havin fun yet?? I am and headed to Church then have a Sunday Dinner then take a nap
Catch yall later
John T
ME slipped??? HEY IT WOULDNT BE THE FIRST NOR THE LAST TIME LOL Many times my fingers get ahead of my old brain and Ive had my share of mistakes grrrrrrrrr but not since Christ walked the earth have any of us mere mortals been perfect I figure. I still try my best to help and "often" I hope I do
When I was buying and selling equipment for a living and as a small business, I saw so many kind of gensets (and yes with all sorts of outlets) and many were so big n bulky n heavy and oddball looking, a few years back I cleaned up and hauled them off to auctions having no idea which worked and which didn't.
Are we havin fun yet?? I am and headed to Church then have a Sunday Dinner then take a nap
Catch yall later
John T
No intent of beating a dead horse but you must realize I was saying to you that "I" got you because I preceved a trivial slip on your part which I had never witnessed before. Next to joking about a serious subject,the secound blunder was poor articulation of my thought. Hopfuly you feel much better knowing there wasn't even the mistaken impression you were doing anything unsavory. Simply poorly written feeble attempt at paying homage in a humorous fashion.
John T,
Yes. I have a 4000 watt belt driven generator that is duel voltage, It has a switch that in one position is a 120/240 volt, just like a transformer. Two 2000 watt 120 volt circuits, split duplex receptacle, and one 4000 watt 240 circuit, 240 volt duplex.
In the other position 120 volt 4000 watt, single receptacle, 30 amp I think.
I like to use mounted on my 17 hp garden to run my electric chain saw, using the straight 120 volts.
Dusty
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
Generators with that series-parallel switch are the cats pajamas.
No problem, thanks for the kind words. I just didn't think the word "usually" which I chose was a "trivial slip"...
I said that because even if 99% of ONLY larger gensets used that 30 amp receptacle, as long as there were any (and believe me in the several I saw over many years there indeed were) smaller ones that still had a 30 amp receptacle, I believe the chosen word "usually" was accurate. Of course, a person could say "mostly" or "most all" or "All Ive seen" or "probably" and be fine, I just chose the word "usually" and if that's not exactly the right word my bad lol I learned years ago NEVER SAY NEVER LOL
Fun chattin with ya and thanks again, and by the way, hey Im a mere mortal, NOT perfect, and have OFTEN BEEN WRONG and it will happen time and time again grrrrrrrrr but I stand by my word choice of "usually" when 30 amp receptacles are indeed "usually" (but NOT always as Ive seen different) found on larger Gensets.
Hey I enjoy humor also so I certainly DO NOT have a problem with your use of that, Im here to help PLUS have a little fun now n then
Merry Christmas, Jesus is the reason for the season
John T
I said that because even if 99% of ONLY larger gensets used that 30 amp receptacle, as long as there were any (and believe me in the several I saw over many years there indeed were) smaller ones that still had a 30 amp receptacle, I believe the chosen word "usually" was accurate. Of course, a person could say "mostly" or "most all" or "All Ive seen" or "probably" and be fine, I just chose the word "usually" and if that's not exactly the right word my bad lol I learned years ago NEVER SAY NEVER LOL
Fun chattin with ya and thanks again, and by the way, hey Im a mere mortal, NOT perfect, and have OFTEN BEEN WRONG and it will happen time and time again grrrrrrrrr but I stand by my word choice of "usually" when 30 amp receptacles are indeed "usually" (but NOT always as Ive seen different) found on larger Gensets.
Hey I enjoy humor also so I certainly DO NOT have a problem with your use of that, Im here to help PLUS have a little fun now n then
Merry Christmas, Jesus is the reason for the season
John T
Similar threads
We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today.
Copyright © 1997-2024 Yesterday's Tractor Co.
All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.
Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters
Website Accessibility Policy