Borrowing or Lending Money Vent

Hello,

It finally happen to me. Well..... may be I let it happen. I have helped this guy out many times. Always fixing things for him, so he can go out and make some money. Out of work and unemployments benefits for many months. So it started with money for gas last summer. Got it back no problem. He stopped coming around when I turned him down when he came for more money. He told me that I will get my money back,(NOTHING BUT POCKET MONEY FOR ME). I guess I expected a little too much for my efforts. I guess that won't happeng againg! Thanks for letting me vent. I'm done now!

Guido.

I loaned money to son, daughter and 2 brothers. I made them sign an interest bearing NOTE specifying that they owed me the money. All of them paid me back as soon as they could - and they never asked to borrow money from me again!

You know what they say. If you loan a guy 50 dollars and he never pays you back, it was worth it. Best not to let it get started in the first place. Tom

Those little touches which make it make it hard for borrowers to convince themselves that you knew all the time that it was actually intended to be a gift have the effect of making you a less attractive source of loaned funds. Family members often consider getting things in writing to be cold and uncharitable, but "misunderstandings" over loaned money have to be one of the top five causes of hard feelings in families.

Stan

Itoo am in a situation with the need to vent!! My son has 4 boys and it seems like there is NEVER enough money to go around-- School pictures have to be paid for,school meals have to be paid for etc.
Well they got into hauling junk and cleaning up some of the piles in the county.
4 years ago I had a NEW flatbed trailer; they wanted to borrow it as their trailer wasn"t enough -- like a fool I loaned them the trailer -- I had to go get it several times for my use --- each time it had a NEW dent or ruined tire or something. Today was the last straw -- I told them when they bring it home this time it goes in my yard --- NOT theirs and it will stay there!! I have always hated to see trailer fenders mashed and crumpled and torn -- Mine is NOT quite there but going that direction -- I am done.

Sorry for the rant but I am done !!!! I should NOT let it start but because of their money situation I felt that I could help that way.

Our family has borrowed money back and forth for years without any problems. No papers signed, just a Got To Have It Back by a certain date to make payments or whatever. Have been doing this for year's without any problems. Every body understands a hand shake is a binding contract.

Been there!!

I have done this many times, been on both sides of the deal. I've learned 2 things from doing so...

There is no better feeling than helping somebody out and then getting paid back for doing so.

There is no worse feeling than helping someone out by borrowing them money, then not getting paid back. Even worse if they snub you after screwing you.

I've never figured out why some people intentionally stiff someone. It seems like a friendship or family member is a lot to lose over something piddly like money.

Last fall a guy who rented a neighbor's barn asked if he could buy some of the cornstalk bales I had stacked in the field 1/4 mile from his barn. He wanted 11. They're big squares that averaged 1200 pounds each. He paid for 3 and took them with his skid loader. Later I took the other 8 up to him to get them off the field. He didn't pay for those 8 bales and now they're used up, the horse is gone and so is he. I'm only out $200 but it leaves a sour taste in my mouth. Jim

Always state the terms up front, clearly. Payment in cash UPON delivery. Tom

Wasn't in the family but a guy i thought was a friend.Loaned him a elevator to put bales in a barn and it came back broken at the bottom end from turning to short. It was perfect when he took it,but he swears it was that way when he picked it up. Guess he wasn't such a friend after all.

Loaning money without holding collateral risks having the borrower treat you with destain and/or disrespect when it comes time to repay. We know respect and frindship can't be purchased. When you loan property or money the recipent will often view your act of generosuty as attempting to buy thier favor of you.

I had a so called friend really P me off me! We always knew he was cheap. He had money but spent it stupidly, like buying an IH 574 diesel with a broken crank, from his work, for $2000 but instead of fixing it, it's been sitting apart in his garage for approx. 15 years! All it needed was the crank, everything else was good. He had a mechanic lined up to fix it and a good used crank available for $1000 or so. He's worked at the same job for over 45 years!

I had a garden tractor in excellent condition for sale and he said he would buy it for $1300. I said I'll take it to your place as long as you promise to pay for it cause I really need the money. He said he'd pay for it when he got paid. I kept getting excuse after excuse and in the mean time he and his 2 brothers were using it. They lived on a farm with 1 brother having a seperate house. Of course I heard about the cable to engage the blades breaking like it was my fault. I kept asking and I went and took the key when no one was home. He even called and asked if I had another key! I said no and played dumb. A week later I went to see him. "I can't pay for it now cause I have to pay the taxes or we'll lose the farm." I said, you've been using it for 3 month's and didn't even fix the cable you broke. Then he said his brother was really mad at me. I suspect his brother figured out I took the key. I got a friend and went and picked the tractor up when they were at work. This isn't the only time him or his brothers have used my stuff and broke it. I still talk to him on occasion but wouldn't borrow him the change for a pay phone. I could have sued him but that would have made more of a problem. I can't say I'll never loan/sell to a friend but I'll be real selective if I do.

The number one cause of wars within a family has to be when wills are involved! Still think the best line ever was on WKRP in Cincinnati;

"Since you're an all or nothing type of person...
Since you can't have it all...
You get nothing!"

I believe we all have stories like this; either money, or equipment, or time. And like all of you I grits me no end when somebody fails my trust. On the other hand, many times it works out well. I get more and more cautious about such things but ultimately I can't let the most recent SOB cause me to turn my back on the the next chance to help someone who may really need the hand-up, proves my faith in them, and ends up being a better friend. Like you, I vent, and vent and move on. If it weren't for good people like you the SOBs take over the world.

Same as most here Ive BEEN THERE DONE THAT.. In my small very reasonably priced (as compared to in town) country law practice the ones who have promised "Oh don't worry you know me I will pay you" ARE THE ONES WHO DONT PAY while those with less resources seem to be the ones who do pay. I've done my share of pro bono work and glad to help someone in need and I have bills to pay also but those who can afford to pay a reasonable fee but skip out P me off grrrrrrrrr still I don't generally go after them legally, what goes around comes around. Its funny when maybe a year later they need help and come to me and I remind them of the last episode and tell them to pay up and then I will consider helping them again IF PAID IN ADVANCE THIS TIME LOL

If you loan money or do favors that which you speak of sorta GOES WITH THE TERRITORY, you have to try n help best you can but don't go overboard and be prepared to take a loss now n then...

Nuff said

Ol John T

Kind of reminds me, when doing favors, like pulling someone out of a snow drift, the ones that have the least ability to pay, are the ones that insist on paying. And the ones that can don't.

Dusty

Human nature dosen't change. Shakespeare has a line in a play that says "neither a borrower nor a lender be.' The Bible warns against cosigning loans. Looks like we would have learned after all these years.

KEH

If you go on Judge Judy let me know so I can watch the episode.

Old saying about lending money to a friend.

"If you lend money to a friend you will loose both the money and the friend."

The saying has an element of truth to it. It is hard to know what to do. It is simple not to lend money or help out someone but in hard times we would be a sad community when we help no one.

I have lent money many times over the years. Here is how I always looked at it. I looked at the money as a gift in my mind. I NEVER said a thing about repayment after the loan. I got repaid about 75% of the time. I was not hurt or out of shape because I looked at it from day one as a gift.

The only thing I do is that if I did not get paid back then no more money later. I used the reason that my retirement money is real tight right then so I do not have it myself.

Actually since retirement that is not just a line. I do not have much "extra" money to lend/gift.

As with all things in life it is judgment call. You have to decide before you lend the money how you want to treat the act.

I borrowed about forty thousand from my parents when I started my business. It was the type of business that had to run for awhile before there was any profit. But I had them on a payment schedule and paid every month. When my mother passed on,(my father had passed about twenty years earlier) we had to settle things up and I found that I had over paid by nearly three years worth. I let it go though because none of my three siblings had much.

Wait... The original post says he got PAID BACK.

I don't see where he loaned any more money. The guy just stopped coming around.

What is the point of the rant?

We don't loan money (if anyone asks we just say we don't have it, period) and don't ask anybody but a bank for it. A few years ago my wife's mother traded her fifth-wheel travel trailer for a motor home and didn't need the tow vehicle ('05 Silverado LS Crew 2500 with real low miles, its only use had been three trips from Ohio to Florida and some around town). She also had a nearly identical '04 that was paid off . She tried to sell on CL but had little interest and the usual "I'll come and look at it" but never show up (to be fair we were still in a recession in reality if not in technical fact).

We expressed interest since our then current tow vehicle was getting unrealiable but there was no way we could pay what she wanted and didn't want to get a loan on it. She cut the price for us by $4,000 . We didn't have all the cash and ask if we could float a few 1,000s until the following spring, even though she had a loan pay off to make on it. She dipped into her own savings to pay it off and give us the title. Paid her off on time and all's good between us.

I guess it's our nature and upbringing to not stiff someone on something, money or goods or whatever... unthinkable. That's why when I hear that sort of thing it just p!$$@$ me off to no end.

I can rite a few chapters on lendin myself ,, only thing I can say to defend myself , is that I thought I was acting in Ch r is tian humility

Hello,

Lot of responses are pretty much how I acted. Did it just to help. HE asked to BARROW, so I was told you'll get it back. Never asked for it back. NO...... it did not break the bank (POCKET MONEY ONLY!). Last time i saw him is when I turned him down for more. He said he was hungry and the fridge was empty. I gave him a loaf of bread, and some luncheon meat, told him I'll get you some money. When I got back to give him the money, he was eating just the bread. So He was and is in need. BUT a little respect would have gone a long way.

Guido.

Loaning money in the family can be touchy. I was guilty at one time myself.

When I was about 18 (44+ years ago), I bought my Aunt's car for $500. She and her sister never married and were like a 2nd mother to us kids until they both passed on. I didn't have the money at the time but I gave her a promissory note. I went to college, got married, got a job and one day about 20-25 years after the loan, wife and I were cleaning out some old papers and we found a copy of the note. My wife was furious to hear I never paid her back. She immediately wrote out a check (with interest) and we gave it to my aunt the next time we saw her. She had never mentioned the loan in all those years (while my wife and I were gainfully employed and successful in our careers). When my aunt died, her will had a statement that the loan was to be forgiven upon her death. Evidently she didn't want anyone to find the note and hold me to it. She was just that kind of person. I felt bad that I had forgotten it all those years, but I would have felt worse if it wasn't repaid prior to the reading of the will.

Hello JML,

I would have done the same in your place!
I may have not forgotten as well......... may be. But making right is what you did.
Must people would have not done what you did. BUT...... like me, it would have kept you awake at night. I guess some of us still have some form of conscience,
Have a good day................Guido.

GUIDO, yup, conscience is a rare thing today. So is personal responsibility which we have tried hard to instill in our kids.

When my oldest daughter went to college (over 10 years ago) we got her a credit card. Expenses were paid with a mix of scholarships, investments we made for kids' college years ago, loans, her savings. We told her we'd back her up and pay miscellaneous expenses on her CC. Well, got a bill with a $50 florist tab. WTF? (Her friend was having a bad day.) Next one had a $100+ dinner bill at a high end restaurant. Again, WTF? (So and So's birthday and she put the bill on her CC and got cash from everyone else, which she spent).

So, we told her that our scrimping and saving while she's living it up is not fair. She gave us the "you don't understand" speech. Ok, we said, we'll back you up BUT...... it's a loan and I started a spreadsheet. Smartest thing I ever did. We didn't even look at the details of the bills. Didn't get our shorts in a knot over every frivolous (to us) expense. Just put it on the Excel sheet. "I need my car upgraded". No problem, I put it on the spreadsheet. It took a lot of pressure off us (and her). When she graduated from Law School, she started paying us back monthly.

Her 2 sisters started college knowing there would be the dreaded "spreadsheet". Even their friends mentioned "the spreadsheet" in conversation.

We did tell them it's interest free which we consider a decent "gift" and they're paying off their other loans faster, but I look at the combined six-figure plus final amount as an investment that will help in our retirement (we put their repayments in a separate account). Now, we didn't nickel and dime the kids either. There were numerous items that didn't end up on the "spreadsheet" that we considered very worthwhile to help them in their education but at least we don't feel they've taken advantage of us either.

By and large they understand personal responsibility as we see it in how they conduct their adult lives. I attribute a lot of that to the example we've shown them by how we live our lives and making them accountable for their actions as well. May not work for everyone but it sure worked for us.

Hello JML,

SPREAD SHEET!!! You really know how to get their attention. HEY! you do what works for you and them. No book written can apply to each individual case.
Later.................Guido.

My plan exactly. I consider some of the loans that I never got repaid as some of the best money I ever spent. Keeps the POS from ever getting near you again. It gives you a legit reason to call them a loser in public too.

I very seldom post on this type of thread, but will on this one.

Regarding the statement of people who have the least being the ones who pay I agree. I had a disabled friend who lived strictly on disability, and barely had enough to get by. More than once he borrowed money from me, and I always looked at it from the point of view that he really had things tough, and if he did not pay me back I could get by with out it. I never mentioned it to him, but each time he paid me back.

On a different note, I have a cousin that she and her husband have a business that does fairly well. I do not care for the husband, but my cousin and I have always gotten along pretty well. He called and asked how much I would charge to plow and work his garden up to get it ready to plant, and I told him only the gas it cost me to haul the tractor over there twice and the gas for the tractor. When I finished he said he would be by next week to pay me the $25 I figured the gas cost me. I have not heard from him in over a year, and consider it a good investment, though I do miss visiting with my cousin.

I don't lend more than $20 bucks and forget about it. Had one I don't see often hand me a $20 last week and said he still owed me for a post drill from last summer.

Always nice when someone hands you some money and says they owed it to you but never saw you to pay you back. Happens that way more often than not.

"If you lend money to a friend you will loose both the money and the friend."

Years ago I quit lending for that very reason. I have been paid back many more times giving than lending. Not always cash but usually paid back, most times with interest as far as I am concerned. Of course I am very picky who I give to.

Another thing I never do is co-sign. My wife came to me once and asked about her doing it. I told her, go into it expecting to pay the bill. She did, and will never again........

Hello John*,?-!.* cub owner,

My vent was, that since I turned him down last time he asked for more, he has avoided me. I know he needs help still, but now.... he has burned the proverbial bridge. I can take a lot of abuse, BUT..ignore me, and I will gladly return the favor,

Guido.