Author	[Modern View]
Nisse 12-27-2012 20:00:59 65.172.42.253 Report to Moderator	I was using my dad's 240 volt stick welder in his shed and half the fuse panel went dead. I have replaced all the cartridge fuses and switched the fuse holders, but the one side is still completely dead. Nothing is arced or melted that I can see. I know i should probably just upgrade it to circuit breakers but would like to get it working again for the time being. Any ideas what else I should try? Thanks, John [Reply]   [No Email]
Nisse 01-04-2013 11:35:25 173.17.158.240 Report to Moderator	Re: Half of 60 Amp fuse panel is dead in reply to Nisse, 12-27-2012 20:00:59   Was able to look at the panel quickly at Christmas, checked with my volt meter and one of the legs is dead, the problem appears to be a double pole breaker at the panel that feeds the shed. It is triped and wont reset, the problen is there is no way to kill the power to the panel besides pulling the meter. There is a transfer switch at the pole for a PTO generator, but since dad hasn't had livestock for a decade it hasn't been used and don't think it is a good idea to mess with it. I never have had to pull the meter or pull a breaker out when it is hot, do you think I should work on it or call an electrician? I really wouldn't mind just pulling the breaker, am I right in thinking that as long as I don't touch the rails I'll be fine? Thanks, John [Reply]  [No Email]
Russ from MN 01-05-2013 21:06:43 68.235.89.15 Report to Moderator	Re: Half of 60 Amp fuse panel is dead in reply to Nisse, 01-04-2013 11:35:25   Maybe the breaker is tripping because the wire is broken in the ground or somehow shorted to ground. disconnect the wire from the breaker and see if it still won't reset. Are the breaker handles tied together as they should be for 220V? If a double breaker is tripped there should be no power on either leg. [Reply]  [No Email]
buickanddeere 01-04-2013 14:55:43 216.183.133.196 Report to Moderator	Re: Half of 60 Amp fuse panel is dead in reply to Nisse, 01-04-2013 11:35:25   Transfer switch should still work. Just check for potential before touching anything. Failed breakers are all too common. [Reply]  [No Email]
d beatty 01-04-2013 11:54:09 50.151.124.6 Report to Moderator	Re: Half of 60 Amp fuse panel is dead in reply to Nisse, 01-04-2013 11:35:25   I would not pull the meter. Our electric company only allows their men or an authorized electrician to remove meter. If you get an electrican you should have him put in a main through out switch on the panel. [Reply]  [No Email]
Nisse 01-04-2013 14:32:10 65.172.42.253 Report to Moderator	Re: Half of 60 Amp fuse panel is dead in reply to d beatty, 01-04-2013 11:54:09   Don't think I will pull the meter myself, talked to the co-op and they will do it, just have to schedule it a couple days ahead. Was more wondering about pulling the breaker, I have replace several before but never when the panel is live. Going to take a closer look at it tomorrow, supposed to be warm(about 25 degrees). Thanks, John [Reply]  [No Email]
d beatty 01-04-2013 14:38:53 50.151.124.6 Report to Moderator	Re: Half of 60 Amp fuse panel is dead in reply to Nisse, 01-04-2013 14:32:10   John like I said before if it can be done put a disconnect switch between the meter and box so if you have to do this again you won't have to call someone out. [Reply]  [No Email]
nisse 01-08-2013 20:01:38 65.172.42.253 Report to Moderator	Re: Half of 60 Amp fuse panel is dead in reply to d beatty, 01-04-2013 14:38:53   I got the problem fixed this weekend, turned out to be real easy. I never actually looked at the one panel until Saturday, just took my dad"s and brother"s word there was no way to kill power, it turns out that there is a 100 amp main breaker. I just replaced the bad 60 amp breaker and everything is fine. Thanks for all the help. John [Reply]  [No Email]
merlynr 01-09-2013 07:33:27 166.137.101.173 Report to Moderator	Re: Half of 60 Amp fuse panel is dead in reply to nisse, 01-08-2013 20:01:38   Glad you got it fixed and so easily. Makes you feel good when it's something simple and you're in the middle of a project. [Reply]  [No Email]
barnE 12-30-2012 19:57:26 67.172.83.183 Report to Moderator	Re: Half of 60 Amp fuse panel is dead in reply to Nisse, 12-27-2012 20:00:59   Find electrician with a Wigginton "wiggy voltage' tester in his hand. Solenoid type heavy and dependable. He will find your problem in a second. New fancy meters will have you chasing rainbows. 40 years tells me this. Please respond Dave [Reply]  [No Email]
buickanddeere 12-28-2012 08:35:06 184.151.61.170 Report to Moderator	Re: Half of 60 Amp fuse panel is dead in reply to Nisse, 12-27-2012 20:00:59   Measure line to line for 240V when looking for the dead line . Otherwise the dead line can still have a back feed from the live line through a 240V load. And appear to be energized. Happened at home once with a failed main breaker. And at my Sister"s summer camp with a failed breaker to bus bar connection. [Reply]  [No Email]
Nisse 12-28-2012 12:16:21 173.17.158.240 Report to Moderator	Re: Half of 60 Amp fuse panel is dead in reply to buickanddeere, 12-28-2012 08:35:06   Thank you for all the suggestions. I do have a meter and have a fair amount of experience with new wiring, but not much with fuses. Will be a while before I can look at it, will report what I find. Thanks, John [Reply]  [No Email]
Russ from MN 12-28-2012 07:47:09 68.235.89.15 Report to Moderator	Re: Half of 60 Amp fuse panel is dead in reply to Nisse, 12-27-2012 20:00:59   When you find the problem please update us so we can all learn The cause! [Reply]  [No Email]
El Toro 12-28-2012 07:45:35 108.3.143.30 Report to Moderator	Re: Half of 60 Amp fuse panel is dead in reply to Nisse, 12-27-2012 20:00:59   If aluminum wire was used as the feed wires there may a lot of corrosion either at the fuse panel or where your wires are being fed. Probably should have a good electrician to check it. Hal [Reply]  [No Email]
Russ from MN 12-28-2012 07:45:29 68.235.89.15 Report to Moderator	Re: Half of 60 Amp fuse panel is dead in reply to Nisse, 12-27-2012 20:00:59   Like everyone else said, you have to have a meeter! If you live in a cold climate like I do you might have a broken wire underground from the frost. I have had it happen! Get a meter and trace the problem, find the problem before you start changing components! [Reply]  [No Email]
Dick L 12-28-2012 07:27:10 184.8.58.116 Report to Moderator	Re: Half of 60 Amp fuse panel is dead in reply to Nisse, 12-27-2012 20:00:59   You need a cheap volt meter to check wire lugs on both ends of the fuse to ground. And all the way back to where you have power if needed. [Reply]  [No Email]
old 12-28-2012 09:16:10 209.86.226.58 Report to Moderator	Re: Half of 60 Amp fuse panel is dead in reply to Dick L, 12-28-2012 07:27:10   I have tried that before and got a good reading at the box but still not enough getting to the tool for it to work. Not uncommon to get a false reading with a meter and when that happens it can get you to the point of pulling your hair out. BTDT to many times and when the Captain of the ship is yelling he want such and such fixed that does not help either also BTDT [Reply]  [No Email]
Dusty MI 12-28-2012 11:18:30 76.250.62.134 Report to Moderator	Re: Half of 60 Amp fuse panel is dead in reply to old, 12-28-2012 09:16:10   Put 1 test lead to the top of the fuse and the other lead to the bottom of the fuse. If the fuse is blown you will get a reading, provided there is a load on the line, no matter how small. If there is no reading the fuse is good. Dusty [Reply]  [No Email]
John T 12-28-2012 12:17:23 216.249.82.117 Report to Moderator	Re: Half of 60 Amp fuse panel is dead in reply to Dusty MI, 12-28-2012 11:18:30   Yeppers, there shouldnt be much of any voltage drop across an almost dead short circuit... John T [Reply]  [No Email]
old 12-28-2012 13:26:39 209.86.226.19 Report to Moderator	Re: Half of 60 Amp fuse panel is dead in reply to John T, 12-28-2012 12:17:23   I did miss the word FUSE but as I said seen more then once you get what looks good as in 120 volt on one leg but find that it is not a true volt reading and it reads good but no amps behind that reading [Reply]  [No Email]
old 12-28-2012 11:28:08 209.86.226.54 Report to Moderator	Re: Half of 60 Amp fuse panel is dead in reply to Dusty MI, 12-28-2012 11:18:30   What I am talking about is the fact that a meter can sometimes see voltage say at the area of a box where the wires hook up but in fact not have true power there due to just enough of a connection to read voltage on a meter but not have any real current value to do work with say a motor [Reply]  [No Email]
merlynr 01-06-2013 07:59:50 166.137.101.153 Report to Moderator	Re: Half of 60 Amp fuse panel is dead in reply to old, 12-28-2012 11:28:08   My son lost one leg of feed from transformer pole and when we tested power panel my digital vm showed 120v seperately on both sides, but no 240v across. chased it around for a while with the transient voltage on the bad let, but nothing on 240 v would work, Went and looked at the transformer and could see one leg was broken off caused by hi winds (gusts to 60). Power co had it fixed in 1.5 hrs [Reply]  [No Email]
RodInNS 12-28-2012 06:45:38 216.118.158.123 Report to Moderator	Re: Half of 60 Amp fuse panel is dead in reply to Nisse, 12-27-2012 20:00:59   The problem could be anywhere from the panel out to the transformer.... You just need to trace back to where you have good power on both legs. I've seen where the lugs on the back side of the meter have basically burned off with the results you describe. Rod [Reply]  [No Email]
John T 12-28-2012 06:09:42 216.249.82.117 Report to Moderator	Re: Half of 60 Amp fuse panel is dead in reply to Nisse, 12-27-2012 20:00:59   If one side is dead out at the shed (and all the fuses, supply and load side BOTH are all good), the problem could well be a loose or burned connection at EITHER the SUPPLY (like home or barn etc) orrrrrrrrr the LOAD box at the shed. Or heck maybe one of the feeder wires out to the shed opened up????? Id inspect all the lugs and cables and clamps and terminals to insure the screws/bolts are good n tight and the wire or terminals arent all burned and carboned. Rememember, the problem could be back at the box that feeds the shed instead of at the shed itself!!!!!!!!! Welding draws high current so I bet you will find a loosed or burned or carboned up connection/terminal/clamp at the supply or load boxes (assuming all fuzes are okay) NOTE a voltmeter might not show all the problem (unless its totally broke open) since they are such high resistance and draw so little current, its that high current draw welder that really tests the circuit. PS if youre talking 120/240 volt single pahse three wire, there should be 120 volts from EITHER hot leg (L1 or L2) to Neutral but 240 volts from Leg to Leg. Since you mentioned "shed" and if its been wired for years theres a darn good chance there were only three wires ran out there, two Hots and the Neutral. Regardless, that shed electrical service (older 3 or newer 4 wire) should still have a Ground!!! John T [Reply]  [No Email]
mkirsch 12-28-2012 06:06:39 64.80.110.74 Report to Moderator	Re: Half of 60 Amp fuse panel is dead in reply to Nisse, 12-27-2012 20:00:59   Are the main fuses in those black box fuse holders that insert into the panel? Last house I rented in lost a leg. The fuse holder went bad. Can't get new ones anymore, but the landlord found a little mom-n-pop electrical shop that had used ones, and was open on a Sunday. Got us up and running until he put in a modern breaker panel. [Reply]  [No Email]
Duner Wi 12-28-2012 05:10:53 216.226.80.242 Report to Moderator	Re: Half of 60 Amp fuse panel is dead in reply to Nisse, 12-27-2012 20:00:59   My welder in shop worked same as yours. I had a bad connection inside the box. Flat copper strips were not masking contact at a joint. [Reply]  [No Email]
mick in il. 12-28-2012 04:10:50 99.116.135.29 Report to Moderator	Re: Half of 60 Amp fuse panel is dead in reply to Nisse, 12-27-2012 20:00:59   Just had this happen at my BIL's house, took me a hour to find. His was one side of his fuse holder not making a good connection. It would hold the fuse but not enough for a connection. Done a lot of wiring over the years and this was a new one to me. [Reply]  [No Email]
MarkB_MI 12-28-2012 00:34:58 75.219.182.8 Report to Moderator	Re: Half of 60 Amp fuse panel is dead in reply to Nisse, 12-27-2012 20:00:59   You do have a multimeter, don't you? If not, first step is to buy one. A cheapy will do, you can buy a pretty decent DMM for less than fifty bucks these days. OK, go to the where power comes into the panel. Check hot to neutral on each leg. Check it both on the actual conductor coming in as well as the lug where it's attached. You may find it's good on input cable but bad on the lug; that's a common problem if the screw wasn't properly torqued down and started arcing. At any rate, work forward or backwards until you find where you're losing power. Tip: Check the voltages under load, meaning the switches and breakers are turned on, and you have something turned on for each leg. Otherwise the voltage may look good if though the connection is bad. [Reply]  [No Email]
old 12-27-2012 21:43:35 209.86.226.30 Report to Moderator	Re: Half of 60 Amp fuse panel is dead in reply to Nisse, 12-27-2012 20:00:59   Could be a number of things I know I have had it happen more then once to my shop. Bad connection at either end of the line between boxes. Had that happen and just a simple tight up the line into the box and fixed it. Also had a wire from one place to the other go bad and need to be replaced or spliced [Reply]  [No Email]
Greg1959 12-27-2012 20:23:54 69.176.13.178 Report to Moderator	Re: Half of 60 Amp fuse panel is dead in reply to Nisse, 12-27-2012 20:00:59   burnt connection on the incoming line to the fuse panel. might try to check the contacts coming into the box... [Reply]  [No Email]
Mark - IN. 12-27-2012 20:23:03 50.151.180.95 Report to Moderator	Re: Half of 60 Amp fuse panel is dead in reply to Nisse, 12-27-2012 20:00:59   240 in the shed? Coming off of the house panel I bet? You have lost a leg, so what/where is the source of the leg? A single throw double pole in the house? Maybe he used two separate ckt breakers in the house panel out to the shed and you are overlooking it? The bottom line, you lost a leg, so whats the source of your legs? If its in a shed, I assume its coming from another source, the house panel. What are your legs there out to the shed? Good luck, be careful. Mark [Reply]  [No Email]
Donald in Kentucky 12-27-2012 20:21:58 72.169.224.97 Report to Moderator	Re: Half of 60 Amp fuse panel is dead in reply to Nisse, 12-27-2012 20:00:59   Check the other end of the line at the house or the Meter to see if u blown a breaker or fuse. U need a VOM to check the voltage to fine where u are losing the voltage [Reply]  [No Email]
Ted in NE-OH 12-27-2012 20:15:52 72.16.19.80 Report to Moderator	Re: Half of 60 Amp fuse panel is dead in reply to Nisse, 12-27-2012 20:00:59   Check supply side of panel, if it is dead check upstream where the power comes from maybe a fuse or circuit breaker there. [Reply]  [No Email]