Author	[Modern View]
Brett Helmkamp 07-28-2012 05:41:46 67.236.72.7 Report to Moderator	I do a lot of tinkering around in the garage but mainly work on old tractors. These old hardened bolts and metals are far better than the crap made today. I am in need of some good drill bits that can handle "old" steels and hardened metals but can also drill through wood and anything I want. Sears sells a nice Cobalt 29 piece set and a titanium 29 piece set. Both are $90. Where do I go? Are these good sets? Which is better? Is there a better brand of bits out there? THanks [Reply]   [No Email]
Eric in IL 07-29-2012 09:31:51 208.124.70.178 Report to Moderator	Re: drill bit questions in reply to Brett Helmkamp, 07-28-2012 05:41:46   There are several posts in this thread stating that once a coated drill is sharpened the coating is lost. I agree, there will be no coating on the tip, but the tip has no function other than providing relief for the cutting surface or "flute" of the drill. So what does it matter if the coating is removed from a tool surface that should not touch the work when the drill is sharp ? Now, if these posters are thinning the web or grinding split points, I can understand their thoughts. This post is not intended to promote the "worth" of coated tools, I am just trying to understand why some think "all is lost" after sharpening a coated drill. [Reply]  [No Email]
RodInNS 07-29-2012 12:44:30 216.118.158.123 Report to Moderator	Re: drill bit questions in reply to Eric in IL, 07-29-2012 09:31:51   Because the tip then heats up very quickly and chips away the cutting surface... Cheap coated drills generally use inferiour quality steel and rely on that coating and when it's gone there's little value left. It's been my experience that once a cheap drill has been sharpened it seldom holds an edge as long as the original... and I can assure you I do know how to sharpen a drill. Rod [Reply]  [No Email]
Eric in IL 07-29-2012 13:37:42 208.124.70.178 Report to Moderator	Re: drill bit questions in reply to RodInNS, 07-29-2012 12:44:30   I understand and agree with your thoughts on the cheap coated drills. I personally believe that BOTH the tool steel AND the coating are poor quality on the cheap bits. I was thinking about coated bits made from high quality tool steel when I asked the question. Sorry if I inferred any references of anyone doing substandard cutter sharpening. [Reply]  [No Email]
RodInNS 07-29-2012 08:54:03 216.118.158.123 Report to Moderator	Re: drill bit questions in reply to Brett Helmkamp, 07-28-2012 05:41:46   I've always been rather skeptical of titanium and cobalt drills... most of the cheap ones are just coated and when you sharpen them the coating is 'gone'. Then you're left with a rather cheap, poorly made HSS drill. I did break down and buy a 21 piece cobalt set from NAPA the other week. That was more like 160 bucks... but after I break the drill off and resharpen a new cutting edge on the remaining half of the drill... lo and behold it cuts like the original. Wether or not the crapsman stuff will be like that... I don't know... but I doubt it. Rod [Reply]  [No Email]
charlie n 07-28-2012 19:53:15 96.35.9.190 Report to Moderator	Re: drill bit questions in reply to Brett Helmkamp, 07-28-2012 05:41:46   I bought a 29 piece set from this outfit at the Louisville show this year.They ain't cheap but they are killer. http://www.wintersdrillbitcity.com/ [Reply]  [No Email]
john d 07-28-2012 19:04:48 69.11.151.27 Report to Moderator	Re: drill bit questions in reply to Brett Helmkamp, 07-28-2012 05:41:46   Look for drills made in the USA. Really good High Speed Steel (HSS) drills will probably drill those old bolts. If not..... you can always pick up a few carbide drills. In spite of the name "High Speed Steel" run the drill at a slow speed, and flood it with some sort of lubricant. Cutting oil, or pipe threading oil, works very well. Even WD40 is better than nothing - don't drill stuff dry and expect the drill to last. Center-punch where you want to drill, and start with a small drill, working up to the size you really need. Be patient. Put enough pressure on the drill to MAKE IT CUT! If it simply sits there and rubs in one spot without cutting, some steels will actually work-harden and be even more difficult to drill. Keep the drill sharp. If you know how to do this correctly on a bench grinder, great! If not.... Either learn how from someone who really knows, or buy a quality drill sharpener. Titanium and Cobalt drills are generally not the answer for home shop use. If you need to drill more than a few bolts in order to remove them, seriously consider investing in a set of HSS drills that are LEFT-HAND drlls. Once they get a good bite into a bolt, the bolt often un-threads! Wholesale Tool [Reply]  [No Email]
jackinok 07-28-2012 10:18:59 64.250.209.109 Report to Moderator	Re: drill bit questions in reply to Brett Helmkamp, 07-28-2012 05:41:46   ive personaly had good luck with those cobalt bits,but be aware theres cobalt bits and then theres cobalt coated bits. spend the extra money and get the true cobalt ones. i drill alot of hardened stuff and i like them ,my opinion of course. [Reply]  [No Email]
Eric in IL 07-28-2012 08:14:14 208.124.70.178 Report to Moderator	Re: drill bit questions in reply to Brett Helmkamp, 07-28-2012 05:41:46   "I am in need of some good drill bits that can handle "old" steels and hardened metals but can also drill through wood and anything I want." For the hardened metals you need carbide bits. Hopefully you don't work with too much hardened metal. The idea with hardened metals is to do the machining before heat treating then use some form of grinder to do finish work, if needed. A good set of High Speed Steel bits is what you need for the remainder. That is assuming "anything I want" is softer than 40 on the Rockwell "C" scale. Dick L , I agree totally. [Reply]  [No Email]
Wile E 07-28-2012 07:50:32 68.188.184.133 Report to Moderator	Re: drill bit questions in reply to Brett Helmkamp, 07-28-2012 05:41:46   You need to go to www.mscdirect.com and buy your drill bits, Be sure to buy High Speed Steel. A set of fractional drill bits up to 1/2" should be about $100 [Reply]  [No Email]
Bob - MI 07-28-2012 07:14:30 24.231.153.6 Report to Moderator	Re: drill bit questions in reply to Brett Helmkamp, 07-28-2012 05:41:46   Cobalt is a steel additive that increases "red hardness". This is a key component in turbine engine blades and vanes for his reason. This means as the bit heats up it will last longer. Now, if Sears actually has a high enough chemistry in that steel to achieve that I would be surprised. Titanium drills are a bit misleading. What you see is a titanium-nitride coating on high speed steel (the gold stuff). This is intended to increase the surface hardness and make for better chip flow. Once the bit is sharpened the coating is gone and you have exposed HSS at the cutting edge. My guess would be that they are coating low-grade steel to get it to last longer. I would be looking at MSC or some reputable industrial supply house for better quality if you want longer lasting drills. [Reply]  [No Email]
Dick L 07-28-2012 06:55:35 50.51.150.255 Report to Moderator	Re: drill bit questions in reply to Brett Helmkamp, 07-28-2012 05:41:46   I buy mostly high speed drill bits for my tool shop. Cobalt will out last a high speed in tool steel if and I say if used properly. I found it cheaper to use high speed bits even with experienced tool makers because of that. Cobalt mill cutters will last longer than high speed but most of the time. In a tuff job I jump to carbide for both drill bits and mill cutters. I only use carbide insert cutters in the CNC lathe. I only use high speed drill bits in my home shop except for some really hard stuff and then I use carbide which is not often. Then I only buy the size I need for that job. [Reply]  [No Email]
SDE 07-28-2012 06:38:32 174.124.56.123 Report to Moderator	Re: drill bit questions in reply to Brett Helmkamp, 07-28-2012 05:41:46   Speed is an enemy of tool life. A tool is cutting or it is rubbing. Rubbing is friction and friction is heat. And the heat kills it. I do alot of drilling in cast iron at work. Cast iron has sand in it and hard spots also. Each will kill your drill bit. When you resharpen that coated drill bit, you have removed that expensive coating from the point and you are now using a high speed drill bit. Old iron has became age-hardened and that is something we just have to live with. SDE [Reply]  [No Email]
tractor300 07-28-2012 06:12:07 74.36.163.136 Report to Moderator	Re: drill bit questions in reply to Brett Helmkamp, 07-28-2012 05:41:46   This is just my opinion and experiences. You couldn't give me a truckload of cobalt bits if I had to use them. I've had the best luck with regular Hanson steel bits. Several years ago I was working on a project and had to drill quite a few holes so i bought 3 bits, just in case. One bit did the whole project without sharpening. It was a Hanson. Like I said, I'm no expert, just my experiences. [Reply]  [No Email]
rustyfarmall 07-28-2012 06:09:54 67.55.162.174 Report to Moderator	Re: drill bit questions in reply to Brett Helmkamp, 07-28-2012 05:41:46   "Cobalt" and "titanium" are both little more than sales gimmicks. Go to an industrial supply business such as MSC or Grainger and see what they have. For what it's worth, ALL drill bits will eventually need sharpening, so you need to learn how to do that. [Reply]  [No Email]
Brian Williams 07-28-2012 07:11:18 50.41.36.72 Report to Moderator	Re: drill bit questions in reply to rustyfarmall, 07-28-2012 06:09:54   True cobalt and titanium plated or TIN plated cutting tools will significantly increase tool life if used properly. I have been a machinist most of my life. However, they are gimicks when they are sold by cheap tool manufactures and maybe Craftsman. Buy from reliable machine tool makers if you want real quality. Just my opinion. You know what they say about that..... [Reply]  [No Email]