What size amp breaker

Not to sure what size amp breaker I need. I will be running a new outlet on its own breaker to run a washing machine and a sump pump. I was thinking a 20amp but not sure.

Assuming you have 12Ga. wire, 20A would be correct.

Code requirement for a washing machine is 20 amp with nothing else on the circuit that is not laundry related.

Yes I am using 12 gauge wire.

Newer homes have the sump pump on its own dedicated circuit with no GFI protection. You want to keep the sump pump ready to run anytime it's needed.

If the amperage of the washing machine and sump pump combined are more than 16 amps you shouldn't run them both on a 20 amp circuit at the same time. The idea is that you shouldn't load a circuit with more than 80% of what the breaker is rated at. A 20amp breaker is the correct breaker for 12ga wire.

What does your local authority say, they are the rule? The rest of us are just making it up.

Hello Wisconsin Cowmann

They should be on 2 separate circuits.

Guido.

Youre "not sure" what size breaker to use????

The size of the circuit breaker depends on the ampacity of the wire youre trying to protect!!!

If the wires ampacity is 20 amps like typical for 12 gauge copper residential wiring branch circuits THEN YOU WOULD USE A 20 AMP BREAKER

THATS BEING SAID and your basic questioned answered, here are some other things you may or may not wish to consider, your home and money your choice.

To begin with, if I was installing a sump pump Id consider use of a seperate dedicated circuit for it alone BUT ITS YOUR HOUSE AND UP TO YOU AND/OR ANY LOCAL GOVERNING AUTHORITY (NOT anyones opinion here) if you do that or not, but if you did.....

Assuming the pump draws less then 16 amps continuous, I would run 3 No 12 copper THWN insulated wires (Black Line, White Neutral, Green Equipment Ground) in 1/2 inch counduit or 12/2 w/Ground Romex fed by a single pole 120 volt 20 amp circuit breaker in your panel........

At the sump pump (if plug connected) I would install a NEMA 5-20R Receptacle AND CONSULT LOCAL AUTHORITY NO "OPINIONS" HERE but its my very rusty "opinion" if in an inaccessible location and if dedicated for the sump pump you may be allowed a non GFCI circuit BUT WHAT I OR ANYONE HERE THINKS DONT MATTER, CONSULT LOCAL AUTHORITY as to whether a non GFCI is permitted and if a dedicated circuit for the pump only is required........

NOWWWWWWWW if you run a circuit for a 120 volt washing machine its basically the same, if its max continuous load is 16 amps or less, run 3 # 12 wires (Hot, Neutral, Equipment Ground) to a NEMA 5-20R receptacle and protect the branch circuit with a 20 amp 120 volt single pole circuit breaker.........

FINALLY if you run a single 20 amp 12 gauge wire branch circuit protected by a 120 volt single pole 20 amp circuit breaker for BOTH the pump and washer, the max combined (for both) continuous load must not exceed 16 amps. Ifffffff the continuous load is no more then 16 amps for both and if its permissible to use non GFCI for the pump and iffffffffffff the local authority permits it (sump pump on same circut as washer) then the branch circuit (3 wires) can be 20 amp rated wire and a 20 amp single pole circuit breaker in your panel.

DISCLAIMER whether or not you can run the pump and washer on a single branch circuit and whether or not non GFCI can be used for the pump IS FOR LOCAL AUTHORITY TO DECIDE NOTTTTTTTTTTTTTT THE "OPINIONS" OF ANYONE HERE REGARDLESS IF LAY OR EVEN EXPERIENCED QUALIFIED AND PROFESSIONAL. Also I'm rusty as an old nail on the latest Codes so if more current practicing educated and experienced professional electricians and engineers differ from me, best to place more value on their opinions over mine perhaps...........

John T longggggggg retired engineer

I am also an electrical engineer.

It is important ro restate What John T states. We all just have opinions, that make no difference in what you should install. All States and communities have codes established to determine their best practices.

You should consult them on any installation. We should NOT give advise on this site.

AMEN, thats why I about alwaysssssssss give that little speech and disclaimer lol. Some communities adopt certain of the NEC's others may have adopted a previous version but NOT the latest, I believe Chicago has their own. The NEC in itself has no legal authority, its a set of certain minimum guidelines published by a team and panel of true EXPERTS who are probably more knowledgeable then any lay or even professionals here...

It seems when when electrical or legal questions are asked everyone and Billy Bob and his know it all brother in law comes out of the woodwork (including myself) and is an expert with an opinion which is why I also advise people to consult local authority and true trained educated qualified professionals before making a decision.

Yall take care n God Bless

John T BSEE, JD

> All States and communities have codes established
> to determine their best practices.

Not true. Some smaller jurisdictions have minimal codes, usually what the state requires. It can lead to some strange installations. This place is a prime example.

The garage has a finished office in the rear that the previous owner used as a law office. I turned it into a sewing room for my wife. The sub panel had a 30A circuit in and two lighting and two outlet circuits out. None of the knockouts had a clamp for the cables and two knockouts had two cables in each.

The lighting circuit for the ceiling lights and another for the closet lights switched neutral so the fixtures were hot all the time.

I took the panel apart, placed each cable in its own hole with a clamp and changed lighting to switched hot. I also fixed a couple of missing grounds and added a ground rod.

The shop building had two outlet circuits. Not one ground was connected. Luckily they did not cut the bare wires off, they just tucked them back into the box.

Codes are a good thing but unfortunately they are not universal.

Your state codes would apply if no local jurisdiction.

While I am long retired as an electrical power distribution design engineer If find it difficult to believe EVERY STATE doesnt have at least some established minumum standard electrical "code"

Often states may adopt some version of the National Electrical Code NFPA 70 for example, be it the latest or perhaps one a few years old.

Ive never seen any formally adopted "codes" that allowed extremely shoddy unprofessional unsafe practices as you mentioned, perhaps while the "code" didnt allow it there was either no or poor inspection or enforcement?????? Just because the code says one thing dont mean it was installed that way or that an inspector (if any existed or were used or required) rightly passed it.

Yall keep safe now, the life saved may be your own or your family or it may be your home thats saved CONSULT TRAINED QUALIFIED COMPETENT PROFESSIONAL ELECTRICIANS AND ENGINEERS AND DO AS THE LOCAL AUTHORITY REQUIRES OVER SOME DIFFERENT "OPINION" LAY OR EVEN PROFESSIONAL POSTED HERE IS MY ADVICE (certainly including mine since Im so long retired and rusty)

John T BSEE, JD Retired

This is not related to the question [but may save a buck] If you put the sump pump on a single receptacle it does not have to be a GFI. A GFI is a bad idea on a sump anyway. This is a one round outlet where only one appliance can be pugged in ,not two. If it is a duplex then it has to be a GFI . [ Now alot of guys might comment that I better buy a newer code book] .But that was an exception to the all GFI's in the basement. Sump pump circuit with single recep. no GFI required.

Yo Dr, I cant comment on what the latest NEC has to say about the subject (I dont own one) BUT I CAN TELL YOU IN OLDER VERSIONS YOURE RIGHT ON TRACK. If I recall correctly ??? (NO warranty too long) in instances where they permitted NON GFCI like for say a freezer in an attached concrete floor garage the receptacle was in a not easily accessbile location (like behind the Freezer) and WAS AS YOU SAY A SINGLE RECEPTACLE NOTTTTTTTTTTT A DUPLEX. That way for one; There was no readily available extra outlet that wasnt GFCI (as normally required outdoors or concrete floor garage) and two; Little Johnny couldnt get to the outlet if hes crawlin around on the garage floor SEE THERES GOOD RHYME N REASON BEHIND THOSE NEC RULES SO MANY LAY PERSONS LIKE TO MAKE FUN OF

John T

Alot of the code makes sense for safety and is not to make the homeowner spend more money. Another one is the garage door opener outlet .Too inconvenient to get a ladder and plug in the appliance [while washing the car]. The people that wrote the code know that receptacle is not easy enough acess to use as a convenience outlet and do save a GFI for that location.[or no GFI is what I'm saying]. Now everyone will pipe in that they always plug into the garage ceiling. Oh well. They try to protect people.

Refrigeration equipment does not work well with GFI's. I suspect it is because of the starting capacitors soak up some of the power before it returns, which causes an in balance and causes the GFI to trip.

Dusty

Yo Dusy Man, Could be, they trip if theres only like 5 ma of imbalance and they trip DARN FAST like at the next sine wave crossover. As you already know but to educate others, theres a torroidal coil around BOTH the Line and Neutral and since they are 180 out of phase and cancel each others magnetic field no voltage is induced in the coil buttttttttt if one leg has less cuz theres a leak (a ground fault) i.e. the current is getting another (possibly through you grrrrr) return path OTHER THEN THE NEUTRAL so a voltage is induced in the coil causing them to trip

Love sparky chat

John T

Very good explanation John.

John, I have a question for you, but I'll start another thread rather than hijack this one.

Dusty

My washer is on a #12 wire and a 15 amp time delay fuse.If the sump pump and washer start at the same the circuiy may trip.Over the years a 15 amp fuse would blow for no reason.A time delay fuse fixed the problem.A lot of older houses had 14 wire in them so it was better to run a new #12 line to the washer.Washer motors draw heavy start currents in the spin cycle.I have over 40 years in appliance repair.Not something I read on a computer screen.