Author [expand]	[Modern View]
EIL 03-14-2004 21:37:52 68.226.192.83 130871 Report to Moderator	I need some advice on a good fairly cheap analog multimeter. I already have a $70 craftsman digital auto-ranging multimeter but now I need an analog meter to use while working on tractors and other equipment since I don't want to ruin the expensive meter. Most of the ones I see are small pocket sized. Even the one at sears for $10 is small and identical to the $3 one at wal-mart. I don't want to spend $200 on a fancy simpson meter, just about $20 on a meter with a large scale for easy viewing. I would be checking dc voltage, resistance, and continuity. Anyone have any good advice? Thanks in advance!!!!! [Reply]   [No Email]
tech4 03-16-2004 07:41:42 216.130.152.51 130963 Report to Moderator	Re: analog multimeter in reply to EIL, 03-14-2004 21:37:52   I think the original question was about a fairly cheap analog meter to supplement his DVM. There are many advantages and disadvantages to both types of meters and it is best to have both on hand. Many times you just need a kind of go - no go type indication such as 12 volts or 0 volts and an analog works just fine as a test light also works ok. The analog meters normally provide a little loading to the circuit 20,000 ohms per volt and is not as likely to read stray voltage from radio transmitters or power line induction as I found with a friend's farm that has a high voltage power line across the farm. The DVM's have a high input impedance 10 megohms or greater that is a great advantage in trouble shooting sensitive electronic equipment. The DVM and I have seen some analog meters with a buzzer for continuity checks is also an advantage but I use a simple door bell buzzer and battery to ring out long wiring harness when I am working alone. My point was not that you do not need a DVM but that you also need an analog meter a little better than the cheap Walmart models and suggested a used Simpson 260 or Triplett 630 or the small 310C. Someone on here said they did not use their 260 anymore so maybe y'all can make a deal. Here is a link below that gives a lot of information on meters. Meters   [Reply]   [No Email]
Dave 03-16-2004 18:29:24 69.104.52.155 130996 Report to Moderator	Re: Re: analog multimeter in reply to tech4, 03-16-2004 07:41:42   good info tech, have you seen these leads for a DMM that have a push button to impose a load on the circuit? see link   [Reply]   [No Email]
Van in AR 03-15-2004 21:09:01 216.134.231.237 130933 Report to Moderator	Re: analog multimeter in reply to EIL, 03-14-2004 21:37:52   You said that you didn't want to ruin the expensive meter? Its a Craftsman, not a expensive meter by a long shot, and not that accurate either. If you want expensive get a fluke and use it, you cant hurt it. Why do people buy "expensive" tools and then want cheap junk to use so they don't damage their "expensive" tools? Van   [Reply]   [No Email]
Gary Schafer 03-15-2004 18:40:52 65.34.187.222 130918 Report to Moderator	Re: analog multimeter in reply to EIL, 03-14-2004 21:37:52   Here is what I would do: Go to harbor freight and buy one of their cheap $3.95 on sale digital meters. The yellow one is better than the black one they sell. Also get one of their cheap $4.00 to $7.95 analogue meters. You need a digital meter if you are going to check battery voltages. Even a good expensive analogue meter is not good enough to read tenths of a volt that is needed for this. If you run across a problem with a noisy generator with the digital meter then put the little analogue meter on it to verify what is going on. Unless you want to spend the money on a good fluke meter as someone suggested. Regards Gary   [Reply]   [No Email]
Jerry A. 03-15-2004 16:45:54 216.125.105.158 130908 Report to Moderator	Re: analog multimeter in reply to EIL, 03-14-2004 21:37:52   One handy feature I've only seen with digitals that I won't live without now is an audible sound for continuity testing. I've crane my neck too many times trying to see the needle on the old analogs all while holding the probes onto the circuit. I'm far from an expert, but I'll take a digital any day.   [Reply]   [No Email]
John 03-15-2004 15:53:04 209.7.93.11 130905 Report to Moderator	Re: analog multimeter in reply to EIL, 03-14-2004 21:37:52   Analog, Digital.. Here is how I see it. An analog is much more accurate than a digital provided they are of the same tolerances. You can interpolate easily with a analog. However, there is no way I would typically go back to my analog over my digital for a few reason.... 1- Batteries last forever in the digital (over 3 years at present) 2 - much tougher and harder to break when dropped 3- usually much smaller and easier to carry 4- give me the reading I want very quickly with the precision way above what I need (so does the analog) 5- often have a continuity buzzer so I don't need to read the display all the time. 6- Most shut off when not used for a time. 7-This is 2004 8- Noise... I have never had problems with noise. Anyone want to buy some old Simpson 260's or 261's? I seldome use mine. Check the website and see what Radio Shack has for under $30.00 Radio Shack Multimeter   [Reply]   [No Email]
Gary Schafer 03-15-2004 18:46:37 65.34.187.222 130919 Report to Moderator	Re: Re: analog multimeter in reply to John, 03-15-2004 15:53:04   Anyone want to buy some old Simpson 260's or 261's? I seldome use mine. What do you want for them? They are always handy to have around. Thanks Gary   [Reply]   [No Email]
RJC 03-15-2004 12:48:35 64.12.96.236 130900 Report to Moderator	Re: analog multimeter in reply to EIL, 03-14-2004 21:37:52   Listen to Bob M & tech4 & Nathan. These 3 know what they are talking about, the rest need to get themselves educated about digital meters and the effects of electrical noise on them.   [Reply]   [No Email]
Van in AR 03-19-2004 05:23:58 216.134.231.237 131114 Report to Moderator	Re: Re: analog multimeter in reply to RJC, 03-15-2004 12:48:35   Don't have any noise problems with my digital fluke 8060, I do with the $69.95 Craftsman however, just get a good one and it isn't a problem. Also if you are going to be doing any modern stuff the true RMS feature is nice for sensors. Van   [Reply]   [No Email]
Clint@MD 03-15-2004 14:54:48 136.160.129.193 130903 Report to Moderator	Re: Re: analog multimeter in reply to RJC, 03-15-2004 12:48:35   Explain the education? What direct test have you done with tractors and electrical noise? You've verified the simple testing as stated by the original poster both with an analog and digital multimeter? What difference did you come up with? Where would one experience the "noise". I just need to know the effects you've found. Some have talked about it but none have yet to hear of a factual example. Thanks.   [Reply]   [No Email]
Bob M 03-15-2004 18:04:11 66.67.10.249 130912 Report to Moderator	Re: Re: Re: analog multimeter in reply to Clint@MD, 03-15-2004 14:54:48   Clint - Generators are notorious for creating electrical noise due to the rapid switching going on at the commutator. Also the vibrating voltage regulator contacts, and to some extent ignition point action create noise and cause all manner of weird AC and chopped DC voltages to ride along on the "power" DC. I've had cheap DVM's read as high as 20 - 30 volts when placed across a 6 volt battery under charge. (An analog meter will read 7.2 volts at the same spot.) This is especially so on equipment such as old tractors where no design consideration is given to RFI surpression. Want proof: Find someone with an oscilloscope and have 'em slap it across the battery while the engine is running. It'll show a virtual electrical storm going on when the motor is running. Or simply tune an AM radio between stations then bring it within 15 ft or so of a running tractor - you can hear the generator hash and ignition popping. Now recognize not all DVM's have this problem - it's generally a case of you get what you pay for. I have a cheapie ($15) Radio Shack pocket DVM that is worthless for this kind of work. However I also have Fluke 77 and 87 meters ($125 and $225) which do fine on the tractors.   [Reply]   [No Email]
T_Bone 03-15-2004 21:46:19 171.75.15.76 130937 Report to Moderator	Re: Re: Re: Re: analog multimeter in reply to Bob M, 03-15-2004 18:04:11   Hi Bob, You brought up a memory trip. I was working on a FM transmitter tower AC unit and was reading voltage anywhere from 50v too 750vac and my meters are going wild. I have three with me, anolog and two digitals. I'm thinking bad transformer and drive 45miles to meet with a utility company rep. He's shaking his head looking at me and says thats impossible as a tranformer either works or doesn't work. But I got him convienced that with three different meters "he's just got to see this" We drive 45 miles back out to the site, and as Murphy would have it, the meters didn't budge and inch and stayed rock solid 240vac while he's there. He takes off and about 5 minutes latter my meters are going bananas again but this time I had turned up the radio at the transmitter and behold the DJ was talking, he quit talking and my meters would read normal. That 50KW transmitter really made them read screwy! T_Bone   [Reply]   [No Email]
Bob M 03-16-2004 07:36:31 165.170.128.65 130961 Report to Moderator	Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: analog multimeter in reply to T_Bone, 03-15-2004 21:46:19   Hey T_Bone - Your story tickled my memory! Was debugging inoperative transport warning lights the header of a JD 9500 combine using my cheapie DVM. The DVM worked fine with the combine shut down. But when the ignition switch was turned on the meter would display only a flashing "0" (out of range/overload). After some head scratching we determined the DVM's internal logic was being messed by the signal from the ground speed sensor (radar transmitter) located under the cab and several feet from the DVM. Sticking a big coffee can over the sensor while I worked eliminated the problem. ...Bob M   [Reply]   [No Email]
DaveCA 03-16-2004 05:32:23 67.117.29.47 130953 Report to Moderator	Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: analog multimeter in reply to T_Bone, 03-15-2004 21:46:19   I've had days like that. This seems like a good place to mention the good DMM's (not cheap) I've had, all had a metal sheild encasing the whole meter. When you take the back off to change the battery, you have to remove or swing the metal sheild out of the way to get inside. Don't know if that's enough to work around a powerful transmitter though. I'm shure you know sheilded leads would have been helpful there. AES sells sheilded leads for multimeters. AES   [Reply]   [No Email]
EIL 03-15-2004 12:28:31 68.226.192.83 130899 Report to Moderator	Re: analog multimeter in reply to EIL, 03-14-2004 21:37:52   The only reason I want an analog is because I hate to get my $70 meter full of grease and also ,as mentioned, they are easier to read in the sunlight. Also, with digital meters you must keep batteries in it and they just end up corroded amd dead.   [Reply]   [No Email]
Bob M 03-15-2004 07:16:24 165.170.128.66 130881 Report to Moderator	Re: analog multimeter in reply to EIL, 03-14-2004 21:37:52   EIL - You are unlikely to ruin your DVM using it on tractors. However you DO risk getting erroneous readings from it on account of electrical "noise" generally present in the primitive tractor electrics - stuff an analog meter cannot detect. Suggest watching Ebay for a used analog VOM. Often find good old Simpson, Triplett, etc. VOM's bidding in the $15 - $30 range.   [Reply]   [No Email]
Clint@MD 03-15-2004 07:02:48 136.160.129.193 130879 Report to Moderator	Re: analog multimeter in reply to EIL, 03-14-2004 21:37:52   The stuff you wanna check is better suited using a digital multimeter. They're also easier to use. They have every setting you'd ever want to use and they're accurate and show fractions of volts and good stuff like that. How is that you'd ruin your $70 digital multimeter. If you drop it from 6 feet you might damage it, but there isn't anything on your tractor that would do any damage to it.   [Reply]   [No Email]
tech4 03-15-2004 07:00:58 216.130.152.51 130878 Report to Moderator	Re: analog multimeter in reply to EIL, 03-14-2004 21:37:52   You are right to use an analog meter when working on most tractors and other outdoor type equipment. First the scale is easier to see at some distance in bright sunlight or dim light if you have a large scale meter. I use a Simpson 260 that I have had for over 30 years and the large meter is much easier to see. Also if you are adjusting for a peak or dip or dwell a digital meter is worthless. The problem with the small Sears and Walmart meter is that the resistance scale in usually a R X 1000 ohms that makes it impossible to read 2 or 3 ohms resolution. True if you are trying to set a generator/alternator to exactly 14.2 volts or checking high impedance sensors the digital is better but just checking a quick test the analog works quicker. At one time Radio Shack had a large analog meter with R X 1 scale but the case was easily broken when dropped. I would suggest either going to ebay or somewhere and get a Simpson 260 or Triplett 630 or equivalent. I have seen good ones go for about $50 and when you get a good one, you will put that digital meter back in the box until you have to check an oxygen sensor or computer on the modern equipment. The caution on the analog meter is that they are not forgiving if you put the leads across 120 volts in the ohms or amps scale and you will have a pile of smoke.   [Reply]   [No Email]
Nathan 03-15-2004 09:31:14 146.82.10.94 130884 Report to Moderator	Re: Re: analog multimeter in reply to tech4, 03-15-2004 07:00:58   I agree with Tech4-- the Simpson 260 is an excellent meter and is very easy to find. I'm not sure how much you'd spend on a good used one, but if you do buy one, I can guarantee you you will be glad you did. The Triplett meters are also excellent. I've used both and they are both easy to use and read, and are very accurate. BTW, if you do decide to get a 260, try to find one that uses the one "D" cell and one 9 volt, because if I remember correctly, depending on the vintage, some of them might use a 15 volt battery or something like that. You can still get those, but they are harder to find and will probably be more expensive. As far as I know, all the older Tripletts use these.   [Reply]   [No Email]
TO35 03-15-2004 02:44:35 207.69.140.22 130873 Report to Moderator	Re: analog multimeter in reply to EIL, 03-14-2004 21:37:52   EIl, I would continue to use the digital meter you cannot hurt it on a tractor, if you just have to have an analog meter either of the cheap ones will work ok...if you decide to go with a better meter go to a fluke meter....they have several that will meet your needs... best wishes TO   [Reply]   [No Email]
Slowpoke 03-16-2004 00:27:30 67.30.99.241 130941 Report to Moderator	Re: Re: analog multimeter in reply to TO35, 03-15-2004 02:44:35   If you're going to buy an expensive digital you may as well get one for automotive service. They will do the standard measurements plus RPM, frequency, temperature, duty cycle, pulse, and dwell. Very handy for troubleshooting modern vehicles and probably the newest tractors, too.   [Reply]   [No Email]