12 volt Conversion with Electronic Ignition

Pecan Oakie

New User
My first posting here on a subject that has many confused and not getting the best results. Here's my story. I own a 1949 Ford 8N which has the front mount distributor. I bought this 8N from Stan Reynolds a retired Ford tractor parts man in 1962 He bought it new in 1949 when he worked at a Ford dealership in Pryor, Ok.
I live 15 miles northeast of Claremore, Ok and own 80 acres, and mostly in Pecan trees. I use the 8N with a Finishing Mower to keep the grass down around these Pecan trees. That is all the 8N has ever done. No plowing of any fields or any other tractor work, except pulling a wagon for hauling Pecans.
From 1949 to 1999 the 8N still had the original tires, fan belt, transmission/hydraulic fluids. In those years I probably replaced the spark plugs, points, distributor cap and rotor three times. In 1999 I was visiting a nearby Pecan grower who had/has a old Farmall and was going to convert to 12 volts with electronic ignition. He mentioned he was going next day to Owaso, Ok to buy all this 12 volt system from Genesee Products and ask if I wanted to come along . That was one of the best days of my life, as I found these Genesee Products was getting ready in making 12 volt Electronic Ignition systems for old vintage farm tractors that was running 6 volts.
The person at Genesee told me they was working on making the conversion kit for the old Ford "N" series tractors, and ask if I would be willing to try it out. About two months later I purchase my 12 volt electronic ignition system. The whole kit ran $302.00 which was a "Introductory price" for the 8N front mount distributor. My kit came with a GM 10SI 3 wire alternator with complete wiring harness, correct alternator pulley, HVX 12 volt high voltage canister coil, 12 volt EI modular with new distributor plate, coil pickup probe, and a new 12 volt voltage meter to replace the ammeter.
Instructions made it easy to convert, removing the old generator, voltage regulator, resistor block, and all the old 6 volt wiring. I had the 6 volt starter reworked to make it 12 volts. Also installed a 12 volt battery which is now "negative' ground...not positive as the old was. My total cost ran $487.40 with the conversion EI kit, battery and 12 volt starter.
Here it is August 2013, 14 years later and still has the same EI module, coil, starter and wiring, and spark plugs. I've replaced the 12 volt battery three years ago. This 8N starts on the first turn of the starter in 100 degree or 10 below Zero. It's one of the best investments for the money and it saves money---time by not having to struggle with the front distributor point, condenser, rotor changing every couple years or so.

Now, I have read many, many troublesome posts on here the past few months how some 9N,2N, and 8N tractor owners are having problems with their 12 volt conversions, and with Electronic Ignition change-over. My suggestion is, do away with the box coil and go with the 12 volt "round" canister coil, and buy a complete 12 volt wiring kit from Genesee Products, as they make the best for these types of 12 volt systems changes.
I know the initial costs are high, but, in the long run it pays to go with the 12 volt EI system change-over.

I apologize for the long posting.
 
Thanks for the testimonial. I'm glad you have had good performance from the conversion. Others on this board have been equally as fortunate. If I couldn't change points or didn't care to, I'm sure it would be worth the money to me to convert to 12v & install EI too. I have 4 8N's, 3 of them are frontmounts and all are 6v. And like your tractor, all of mine start the first time, every time. While I haven't seen -10*, they do start at 12*. I check, regap & lube the points annually. An $18 set of Bluestreak or Echlin points usually last at least 4 years, but I've stopped keeping records now. So probably 6-7 years now.

I do not consider my luck w/ 6v & points to be any better than any one else. But you're not going to read about those guys who maintain the points & the tractor starts & runs. You only hear from them when it doesn't run.

And yes, others w/ EI have not been as fortunate as you have; check out the post below from Dave8N in PA.
75 Tips
 
(quoted from post at 14:52:08 08/19/13) Thanks for the testimonial. I'm glad you have had good performance from the conversion. Others on this board have been equally as fortunate. If I couldn't change points or didn't care to, I'm sure it would be worth the money to me to convert to 12v & install EI too. I have 4 8N's, 3 of them are frontmounts and all are 6v. And like your tractor, all of mine start the first time, every time. While I haven't seen -10*, they do start at 12*. I check, regap & lube the points annually. An $18 set of Bluestreak or Echlin points usually last at least 4 years, but I've stopped keeping records now. So probably 6-7 years now.

I do not consider my luck w/ 6v & points to be any better than any one else. But you're not going to read about those guys who maintain the points & the tractor starts & runs. You only hear from them when it doesn't run.

And yes, others w/ EI have not been as fortunate as you have; check out the post below from Dave8N in PA.
75 Tips

I just finished a 20 minute telephone conversation with Dave. I'd be real surprised if EI (or points) has anything to do with his woes....

TOH
 
(reply to post at 11:52:08 08/19/13)
... I have 4 8N's, 3 of them are frontmounts and all are 6v.

Either you have many uses for the four 8N's, or as one might say..."they are pretty and nice to sleep with". My 8N does the small chores. The larger John Deere does the big labor jobs, and the John Deere 2320 with 64" mower deck does the lawns. Oklahoma loves to charge high property taxes on equipment.
 
" Either you have many uses for the four 8N's, or as one might say..."they are pretty and nice to sleep with".

LOL!

A combination of both!

I'm really lazy, so it's easier to change tractors than implements.

One N does the mowing, another plows, another discs/cultivates & the 4th one is in a management position.....it looks good & doesn't do much.

Also have a M-F diesel & a 740.
75 Tips
 
Pecan Oakie,
Welcome to the N board.
Nothing like jumping in with both feet. LOL
This 12V/EI pot has been roiling and boiling for years now with many of the "Gurus" saying 6V/points is the only way to go and a few guys standing against the crowd and saying the world's automakers went to 12V/EI for good reason.
From your post I take it you've read some of the previous posts on the subject here.
An oft repeated quote from those arguments is this one:
[i:654c4848f0]"The 12 volt conversion debate comes up here w/ such frequency that you would benefit from doing an archives search on the topic. Generally speaking, you will find a few facts, a lot of opinion, & unfortunately, a little BS. And sometimes you will find factual information that isn’t the least bit relevant to a 12v conversion on a 23 hp, 60 year old tractor. ("the auto industry did it 40 years ago")"[/i:654c4848f0]
I would say there has been more than just a little BS.
But you know, one thing I've learned from reading these boards for a while is that there really is all kinds of folks out here.
Some guys actually Do like getting down on creaking knees, and with a sore back, to reach through a grimey loader frame and fiddle with the points in their front mount N a couple of times a year.
Some guys even make sure they keep a crisp new dollar bill handy at all times just to wipe that invisible corrosion off their points.
And then there are some guys who are totally devoted to "originality".
And they'd just hate an eyesore alternator hanging off their tractor.
I can't fault them for that.
Of course many of those same fellas will paint their 9/2Ns red but hey, no nitpicking OK?
The most interesting of the 6 volters are those who will tell you they aint gonna spend all that dough for something so foolish as a modern electrical system. Then you go watch Ebay for a while and see what some of the original gew gaws and doo dads for these tractors will sell for.
It'll make you wonder about people's priorities, or at least it does me.
Meanwhile, the argument never goes completely away.
And as the old saying goes; "For what do we live, but to make sport for our neighbors, and
laugh at them in our turn?"
Over the long haul though, I do think the 12 volters will be laughing last. Looking at the exorbitant price of 6V batteries anymore and the abundance of lousy points you get nowadays. More and more of them are finally going to have an epiphany and say WTH am I doing this for and convert. Then there will be a broader market for EI and Gensee will have some competition so the price will drop to about the price of a good set of points. Of course there will always be some who don't change. One guy here claims to have had the same points in his tractor for 23 years and fully expects to get another 23 out of them.
Maybe he has and maybe he will. I don't care one way or another.
And lastly there are some true purists here that have some marvelous old Ns, like with aluminum hoods or unique serial numbers.
Those guys I wouldn't expect to change over. In fact I'd be disapointed if they did.
 
(quoted from post at 14:58:06 08/19/13)
I just finished a 20 minute telephone conversation with Dave. I'd be real surprised if EI (or points) has anything to do with his woes....

TOH
I had that opinion too. I'll be curious to find out what the problem is/was.
 
Ultradog MN. I thank you for the timely response to my message on the Electronic Ignition change-over. I've read with interest these past weeks here on the troubles/problems some have with their conversion. I would guess their problems come s from not having a correct timed engine or it's not worthily to be repaired to make the costly conversion. The years having my 8N, I have kept it in top maintains condition, and that includes replacing the distributor shaft and bushing couple times. Mainly, the biggest troubles come from the way the bearing/bushing wears in the distributor causing the shaft to wear and from that the points gets the blame. The points are only as good/works if the shaft and bushing are perfect. It is best to make any old tractor..6 volt or 12 volts in good mechanical condition before making any EI conversion. It would solve many of these people problems.

I don't have the time to go read all the past postings on the 12 volt EI conversion, as I'm sure for every one good report, there's three against it. Over my 76 years of life I've learned there's two things that changes one's mind-set,, a Blondie in a bikini walking by or someone passing out hundred dollar bills.

I see that you are a Minnesota resident, and with that I can see why you switch to EI, due to the many cold months you encounter.

Two years ago here in upper eastern Oklahoma, we had two days where the temperature went to 27-30 below zero. It was only in a 120 mile radius around Nowata, Bartlesville, and Claremore, Ok. It was recorded as being colder than the South Pole. You guess it, the '49 Ford 8n started right up. Although, it was in the garage during that time.
 
I wonder if this is the wrong time to bring up that 950 I bought 3ys ago down south florida.. was non running in the guys garage.. no charge system and closed up points. I set them by eye with a business card to start it and get it on my trailer, by jambing a wire under the bat terminal to hot wire it.. :)

It's still on those same set of points.. and apparently my eye and that business card was calibrated to .025 real good.. I actually folded the card.. not single spaced it..

that machine is my weekly mower.. starts on 1st crank ;)

proably has pieces of 7-8 other machines grafted onto it.

now if it's front steering pedistal wasn't clapped out it'd be nice. ;) ;)
 
" I wonder if this is the wrong time to bring up...."

No, as we're both used to being called Luddites because we understand that 60+ year old machinery will run just fine on parts designed for 60+ year old machinery as long as we are willing to keep the machinery maintained as the 60+ year old manuals called for. And many folks are not capable or are unwilling to do that.
 
(quoted from post at 04:57:26 08/20/13)
(quoted from post at 14:58:06 08/19/13)
I just finished a 20 minute telephone conversation with Dave. I'd be real surprised if EI (or points) has anything to do with his woes....

TOH
I had that opinion too. I'll be curious to find out what the problem is/was.

EI and points suffer from the same issues... It should be a no brainier... It should have been caught very EZ... Here's the problem,,, folks get caught up writing a book on any and every thing instead of asking one question that would lead in the direction needed to diagnosis the issue..

I try and eliminate systems by not guessing if I ask a question and don't get a answer that would confirm it I am done with the poster I am not going play the blind leading the blind...

If you are anyone else are really interested in what simple test that could have been performed with out writing a book are jumping to other test that had noting to do with his issue I suggest Y'all have a discussion about the info that was provided and how to simply confirm it...

Its rare a poster reports all the info needed to diagnose a issue like this right off the bat,,, he did my hats off to him,,, if I missed it I would not let the opportunity pass by to learn from it...

EI and points suffer from the same issues his issue had nothing to do weather it had EI are points. The same test would apply to both theirs noting to be skeered of....
 
funny thing is.. my machine with EI starts nearly as good as that 950 on points. but I'll never live long enough to make up the cost difference on the ei vs points that go years at a pop.. I'l admit.. I'v ebeen bad. I have not even adjusted them darn points in 3ys...

i wonder why it still runs? oh yeah.. it was designed to. forgot that. :)
 
I try and eliminate systems by not guessing if I ask a question and don't get a answer that would confirm it I am done with the poster I am not going play the blind leading the blind.
I didn't see where you posted a question for this guy Hobo, but then
when I go back and look there were 3 or 4 (maybe more) different
posts on the same subject. Maybe I missed it.
Or maybe I'm missing your point all together?
 
(quoted from post at 19:59:44 08/20/13)
I try and eliminate systems by not guessing if I ask a question and don't get a answer that would confirm it I am done with the poster I am not going play the blind leading the blind.
I didn't see where you posted a question for this guy Hobo, but then
when I go back and look there were 3 or 4 (maybe more) different
posts on the same subject. Maybe I missed it.
Or maybe I'm missing your point all together?

I did not have to the answer was right their in front of all to see... I was waiting for someone to suggest a carb rebuild...

It was their how could so many miss it...
 
[/quote] I would guess their problems come s from not having a correct timed engine ..."
Hey, Pecan Okie...........just curious as to your procedure for setting your timing on your front distributor EI???
 
We all (most that is) know the experience(s) has taught us no combustion engine will run if not timed correctly. That also would include a 4 cyl engine in a Ford 8N tractor with 12 volt Electronic Ignition.
JMOR, I threat the timing procedure the same way on EI as when it was with Points setups. There is an adequate amount of timing adjustment here by distributor rotating the "breaker plate"....very little. Due to the fact the distributor cam run 1/2 crank speed, every degree the breaker plate is moved ..up or down.. changes the actual timing by 2 degrees. When I switched to EI ignition, I used the same procedure by moving the "screw/hex nut on the left side of the distributor to gain the best running on the idle side. That all applies if the carburetor is in perfect condition and set/adjusted correctly, and the intake/exhaust values are good. I also use a dwell meter (needle type) to get the best reading. My '49 8N has the glass jar hanging out on the right side of the hood, I add water (1/2 full) and a small bottle cork to the jar and start the engine. When the water and cork "stops" bouncing/bobbling in the jar, I know the engine is running in it's best condition. That is also a good way to check the carburetor settings.
 
Ive been digging potatoes and hauling off the vines and weeds on the tractor carry all.Still 6 volts and starts when I have work for it.I still have 487.40 in the bank.Genesee doesnt develope anything,just repacks Pertronix parts.May have changed.The last 6 volt battery I bought cost 55.00.Two 12 volt batteries cost 75 and 80 dollars each.All batteries have gone up.My tractor gets parked in jan feb.Deep snow shuts things down although we have been getting open winters lately in Jan.I just cant find reason to blow 500 bucks on something I dont need.All the new storage buildings being built prove that people love to spend money on things they dont need.
 
(quoted from post at 20:13:04 08/20/13)
We all (most that is) know the experience(s) has taught us no combustion engine will run if not timed correctly. That also would include a 4 cyl engine in a Ford 8N tractor with 12 volt Electronic Ignition.
JMOR, I threat the timing procedure the same way on EI as when it was with Points setups. There is an adequate amount of timing adjustment here by distributor rotating the "breaker plate"....very little. Due to the fact the distributor cam run 1/2 crank speed, every degree the breaker plate is moved ..up or down.. changes the actual timing by 2 degrees. When I switched to EI ignition, I used the same procedure by moving the "screw/hex nut on the left side of the distributor to gain the best running on the idle side. That all applies if the carburetor is in perfect condition and set/adjusted correctly, and the intake/exhaust values are good. I also use a dwell meter (needle type) to get the best reading. My '49 8N has the glass jar hanging out on the right side of the hood, I add water (1/2 full) and a small bottle cork to the jar and start the engine. When the water and cork "stops" bouncing/bobbling in the jar, I know the engine is running in it's best condition. That is also a good way to check the carburetor settings.
hank you for your reply. I was just curious if you had invented a way/modification to "set" an EI front distributor to a specified X degrees, as opposed to 'by ear'. It can be done, but required accurately locating TDC-compression and marking of crankshaft pulley & a fixed pointer. I'm not the only person to do it, either. I have been happy with some in setting by ear, too. Thanks again for your response.
 

It does not matter if you have had great success with EI most all here PROCESS no diagnostic skills they live on myths that they think can make up for what they don't know...

I am impressed with the way you think mostly by not dreaming up chit that does not make any $ents.... The myth dreamers are having a hard time with it tho :D ....
 

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