Author	[Modern View]
russb wa 01-14-2013 15:15:25 67.185.6.72 Report to Moderator	I was shocked, shocked I say: http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/2000862202001/ This post was edited by russb wa at 15:32:05 01/14/13. [Reply]   [No Email]
JMOR 01-16-2013 06:54:27 72.181.173.171 Report to Moderator	Re: E15, most here know is bad. in reply to carlntexas, 01-14-2013 15:15:25   Quoting Removed, click Modern View to seeCarl, near you at 515 & 69 is Duko Oil in Emory & the only gasoline they sell is ethanol-free. Sometimes the cost above local E-10 has been as little as 6 cents & at other times as much as 35 cents. Guess it might depend on cost at time each filled his tanks???? [Reply]  [No Email]
carlntexas 01-15-2013 22:56:16 69.46.59.221 Report to Moderator	Re: E15, most here know is bad. in reply to carlntexas, 01-14-2013 15:15:25   I'm pretty lucky I can get ethanol free gas 2miles from home, but I live on Lake Fork. Here is a link to find it in your state. http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=TX [Reply]  [No Email]
hd6gtom 01-15-2013 16:29:58 63.153.207.14 Report to Moderator	Re: E15, most here know is bad. in reply to russb wa, 01-14-2013 15:15:25   Leroy, It works in them, we did millions of miles of testing in the 1970's before we introduced gasohol to the public. We ran Chevrolet pickups thousands of miles on straight Alchol, with only a few mod's to the timing and carb adjustment. This was done in temps ranging from -30 to +100. Gasohol works and works well. True it will clean up your fuel system. True if you have been using the cheapest gas you can find you are only asking for trouble anyway. Most of that junk barly has enough cleaning additive in it to keep your car running, let alone keep anything clean. That's why Wallmart makes a fortune selling injector cleaner to you guys. [Reply]  [No Email]
Bob Harvey 01-15-2013 14:45:16 209.121.225.232 Report to Moderator	Re: E15, most here know is bad. in reply to russb wa, 01-14-2013 15:15:25   Here in B.C., I don't have any idea what we get at the pump. It is not noted on the pump. Whatever we get hasn't been a problem for me. Normal gas powered yard/garden tools, old JD tractor and vehicles. [Reply]  [No Email]
Hobo,NC 01-15-2013 05:31:16 98.17.82.217 Report to Moderator	Re: E15, most here know is bad. in reply to rick1, 01-14-2013 15:15:25   AAA Say's (They do blow a lot of hot air sometimes useless B.S.) They are somewhat correct this time :shock: Key word here phase separation it does happen and not as uncommon as you would think... Its nuttin new and been around since the 80's in gas... This is one reason I will not buy from Joe blows cheapest gas on the boulevard... [Reply]  [No Email]
Gaspump 01-15-2013 10:48:55 24.170.165.16 Report to Moderator	Re: E15, most here know is bad. in reply to Hobo,NC, 01-15-2013 05:31:16   Phase separation is a big problem that the marine industry has fought since the early days of E-85. It can occur frequently and many people do not know that simply mixing non-ethanol gas with E-85 can be the cause of phase separation. When it happens the ethanol relases its entrained water, Gasoline releases the ethanol and now you have a big problem especially if fishing 30-100 miles offshore. [Reply]  [No Email]
MisterT 01-15-2013 10:57:35 216.248.71.226 Report to Moderator	Re: E15, most here know is bad. in reply to Gaspump, 01-15-2013 10:48:55   Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see If you're fishing 30 to 100 MILES off shore, you are probably a commercial fisherman, and you boat probably has a DIESEL engine. If so, you shoukld probably NOT be using ethanol blended gasoline. :( [Reply]  [No Email]
Gaspump 01-15-2013 17:27:42 24.170.165.16 Report to Moderator	Re: E15, most here know is bad. in reply to MisterT, 01-15-2013 10:57:35   Yes fishing that far offshore is a commom thing here. No not all offshore sport fishing boats are diesel. Yes a lot of diesel sport fishing boats are built but most of the smaller like 27" and under are gasoline inboard or outboard powered. To find good offshore fishing here you need to be at least 35 miles out in the Gulf Stream and 50 miles to offshore rock formations. I have exceeded 100 miles on many, occasions both fishing and testing boats. Many boats in this class run 25-35 MPH so it is no big deal, 2-3 hrs out fish and the same back. [Reply]  [No Email]
JMOR 01-15-2013 11:04:18 72.181.173.171 Report to Moderator	Re: E15, most here know is bad. in reply to MisterT, 01-15-2013 10:57:35   Quoting Removed, click Modern View to seeYou sure used a lot of probably's in there. :roll: [Reply]  [No Email]
MisterT 01-15-2013 11:27:42 216.248.71.226 Report to Moderator	Re: E15, most here know is bad. in reply to JMOR, 01-15-2013 11:04:18   Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see PROBABLY because I'm not a fisherman. [Reply]  [No Email]
TheOldHokie 01-15-2013 06:33:21 74.110.72.215 Report to Moderator	Re: E15, most here know is bad. in reply to Hobo,NC, 01-15-2013 05:31:16   Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see OEM's don't warrant their vehicles - including E85 flex-fuel vehicles - against damage caused by the use of phase separated fuel. As you note separation is already a possibilty when using E10 or E85 so that is not the warranty concern with the use of E15. The key word with regard to warranty coverage is corrosion. TOH [Reply]  [No Email]
JMOR 01-15-2013 06:58:14 72.181.173.171 Report to Moderator	Re: E15, most here know is bad. in reply to TheOldHokie, 01-15-2013 06:33:21   Quoting Removed, click Modern View to seeI think it is a lot like milk.........fresh=OK, stale/old=bad. Maybe you could use old e-? to make biscuits? :roll: [Reply]  [No Email]
TheOldHokie 01-15-2013 08:31:01 74.110.72.215 Report to Moderator	Re: E15, most here know is bad. in reply to JMOR, 01-15-2013 06:58:14   Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see Although the testing is incomplete I suspect sour Enn doesn't make good biscuits and probably not any good for your septic tank either ;-) TOH [Reply]  [No Email]
TheOldHokie 01-15-2013 04:46:33 74.110.72.215 Report to Moderator	Re: E15, most here know is bad. in reply to 01BIRDDOG, 01-14-2013 15:15:25   JMOR said: (quoted from post at 01:18:44 01/15/13) russb wa said: (quoted from post at 22:56:55 01/14/13) "Those countries have cars with fuel systems designed for those higher ethanol levels" That makes me think back to my Model Airplane days. We used silicone rubber tubing with methanol fuel and IIRC, some rubber like neoprene for gas/diesel. It seems one or the other, but not both. I got a float needle for a bike carb that was tipped with something $pecial. Just thinkin out loud. Back in the 70's? when the BIG 3 started exporting cars to Brazil, there were articles in car mags about the changes necessary to run on ethanol. Carbs, elastomer parts, mild steel fuel lines & tanks were among the items that would be eaten/softened/hardened corroded by ethanol. They all had to be different materials on those exports. Researching the history a little deeper it looks like this is a warranty (e.g. liability) issue with the OEM's. They aren't saying it will cause damage only that they are not willing to warrant the fuel for use in anything other than flex-fuel vehicles which have been designed for very high concentrations of alcohol. They will not warrant it in their regular 2001 - 2011 vehicles and want more testing at teh 15% level before they will. The EPA and fuel producers say the current testing of E15 in non flex-fuel vehicles is more than sufficient and has OK'ed the fuel for use in all 2001 and newer vehicles. The OEM's then went to court to try and block EPA approval of the sale of E15 and lost. In any event the vast majority of states still don't allow it to be sold and in those that do E10 is still available right along side E15 and E85. If you don't own a flex-fuel vehicle and it worries you stick with the E10. I'm guessing in 10 more years when the warranty issue is moot the OEM's will suddenly decide that E15 is OK in all 2001 or newer vehicles just like the EPA and producers did. :roll: TOH This post was edited by TheOldHokie at 04:49:14 01/15/13. [Reply]  [No Email]
L. B, 01-14-2013 22:36:10 64.187.79.169 Report to Moderator	Re: E15, most here know is bad. in reply to russb wa, 01-14-2013 15:15:25   All Ethanol is a joke anyway we have 2 plants in the area, it takes more fuel to make it then you get.We send Alaska's oil to the far east and they steal crude out of the G of Mx .Yet in Utah and Colorado they set on the largest oil shale reserve in the world, and they(Shell and Exxon) were to start extracting it when crude hit $40.00 just keep spoon feeding us the BS. I avoid ethanol every chance I get. Ho I forgot to mention the Williston Basin it has more reserves then the Saudis. There is no excuse for the shape we are in with all we could be.Off my soapbox cause I have to plug my electric car in before I hit the rack. [Reply]  [No Email]
Old weldor 01-14-2013 17:07:40 67.142.183.25 Report to Moderator	Re: E15, most here know is bad. in reply to russb wa, 01-14-2013 15:15:25   I live in Iowa, I use e10 in my modern vehicles only.but I had a 95 ford Taurus years ago that would vapor lock in the summer on ethanol when it was 90 degrees or more.i don't use it in older vehicles or tractors. [Reply]  [No Email]
mhb@ufe 01-14-2013 16:21:18 184.153.187.144 Report to Moderator	Re: E15, most here know is bad. in reply to russb wa, 01-14-2013 15:15:25   E10 has been causing a lot of problems in small engines for years (lawn mowers and generators for example) and the repair shops get grief from their customers because they have to keep bringing them in for the same problem. We advise people to use fuel treatment to prevent phase separation but some just think it is a sales pitch. Mark [Reply]  [No Email]
russb wa 01-14-2013 16:55:48 67.185.6.72 Report to Moderator	Re: E15, most here know is bad. in reply to mhb@ufe, 01-14-2013 16:21:18   I don't exactly remember what got my thinking turned around to where I run the carb dry if there is going to be extended non use. Stabilizer can't hurt, probably helps a lot. [Reply]  [No Email]
BillM (OH) 01-15-2013 22:05:05 173.81.81.180 Report to Moderator	Re: E15, most here know is bad. in reply to russb wa, 01-14-2013 16:55:48   I have been using E-10 in everything, since that's all you can get at the usual gas stations, with no problems so far as I can tell and have several engines that sit around unused for months. That said, I do add "stabil" to most of them and make sure to shake up the couple of two cycles I have before starting to make sure the ethanol hasn't separated to the bottom leaving the 2 cycle oil behind in the gasoline (I don't worry about the 2 cycle snowmobile that has separate oil feed). I guess about the only place you can get 100% any more around here would be the airport. [Reply]  [No Email]
TheOldHokie 01-14-2013 15:43:02 74.110.73.129 Report to Moderator	Re: E15, most here know is bad. in reply to russb wa, 01-14-2013 15:15:25   Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see Seems rather odd since EPA has been working on this with those very OEMS for almost 5 years now and AFAIK had arrived at this determination. TOH [Reply]  [No Email]
JMOR 01-14-2013 15:50:56 72.181.173.171 Report to Moderator	Re: E15, most here know is bad. in reply to TheOldHokie, 01-14-2013 15:43:02   Quoting Removed, click Modern View to seeSounds like epa & a bunch of car makers disagree! [Reply]  [No Email]
TheOldHokie 01-14-2013 15:52:54 74.110.73.129 Report to Moderator	Re: E15, most here know is bad. in reply to JMOR, 01-14-2013 15:50:56   Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see Apparently. TOH [Reply]  [No Email]
russb wa 01-14-2013 15:40:36 67.185.6.72 Report to Moderator	Re: E15, most here know is bad. in reply to old, 01-14-2013 15:15:25   I piddy da foo what doesn't live in Brasil, where its warm. [Reply]  [No Email]
MisterT 01-14-2013 15:32:04 216.248.71.226 Report to Moderator	Re: E15, most here know is bad. in reply to mbramble, 01-14-2013 15:15:25   The only thing shocking about that report is that Fox news reported it. Fox is usually very fair and balanced and does not report anything that is not based on fact. Obviously, in this case, Fox did not research the matter before running with it. Those same car companies also sell cars to Brazil, and I believe it is Brazil and probably a few other countries that have cars and trucks running on 100% ethanol, and have been doing so for many years now with no damage to engines, fuel systems, or anything else. [Reply]  [No Email]
JMOR 01-14-2013 15:42:57 72.181.173.171 Report to Moderator	Re: E15, most here know is bad. in reply to MisterT, 01-14-2013 15:32:04   Quoting Removed, click Modern View to seeThose countries have cars with fuel systems designed for those higher ethanol levels....not your American 2010 auto. You obviously only read the headline or you would have heard the reporter quoting car mfgrs and AAA as saying E15 is OK for 2012 cars. Same cautions for E85....ONLY for Flex fuel vehicles. I'm sure we should pay attention to you & the IA guys who will be along to say, "it is all OK", just ignore those car companies saying that they will NOT honor the warranties if you use E85". [Reply]  [No Email]
russb wa 01-14-2013 18:56:55 67.185.6.72 Report to Moderator	Re: E15, most here know is bad. in reply to JMOR, 01-14-2013 15:42:57   "Those countries have cars with fuel systems designed for those higher ethanol levels" That makes me think back to my Model Airplane days. We used silicone rubber tubing with methanol fuel and IIRC, some rubber like neoprene for gas/diesel. It seems one or the other, but not both. I got a float needle for a bike carb that was tipped with something $pecial. Just thinkin out loud. [Reply]  [No Email]
JMOR 01-14-2013 21:18:44 72.181.173.171 Report to Moderator	Re: E15, most here know is bad. in reply to russb wa, 01-14-2013 18:56:55   Quoting Removed, click Modern View to seeBack in the 70's? when the BIG 3 started exporting cars to Brazil, there were articles in car mags about the changes necessary to run on ethanol. Carbs, elastomer parts, mild steel fuel lines & tanks were among the items that would be eaten/softened/hardened corroded by ethanol. They all had to be different materials on those exports. [Reply]  [No Email]
Leroy 01-14-2013 16:37:44 69.88.205.38 Report to Moderator	Re: E15, most here know is bad. in reply to JMOR, 01-14-2013 15:42:57   My 98 says in the book it is OK to use E85 so why would it not work in the newer ones? [Reply]  [No Email]